97 3.1 engine clatter on cold mornings start

[ericn1300]

i bought a 97 grand prix se with the 3.1 this summer and love it so far. 185,000 miles on the engine. when i start it in the morning it makes a clattering noise that sounds like lifters until it warms up. is this common on these engines or should i be worried?

and is the engine tranny assmbley an easy swapout if i find a lower mileage one in junkyards? should be tons of these engines out there.

[andylikespez]

my 2000 grand prix 3.1 does the same thing. so does my dads 3.1 malibu and my sister newer 3.1 malibu, so does my friends 95 beretta 3.1, so did my friends 91 grand prix 3.1 and so did his 96 grand prix 3.1.

not a cold day goes by when i dont wonder the same thing your asking.

me and the guy with the berretta have a nickname for it and we call is the "3.1 performance knock"

mine has been doing it the 2 and a half years i have owned it and shes got 71k on her

[Emajgin]

my 3.8 98 gtp also does the same thing, even when its not cold.....

[regalfriend]

For the 3.8 GTP it sounds like it is the S/C....The coupler is probobly bad The 3.1 seems to be a common problem...I once had an 89 LeBaron 4cyl...Did the same thing. I added Lucas and the knocking went away....I have heard mixed things about Lucas...IMO its good.It worked and i got many more trouble free miles after that.

[bombergp]

This noise was explained last month as being some extra cold clearance necessary in the wrist pin bearings. Search back you'll find it.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

For the 3.8 GTP it sounds like it is the S/C....The coupler is probobly bad The 3.1 seems to be a common problem...I once had an 89 LeBaron 4cyl...Did the same thing. I added Lucas and the knocking went away....I have heard mixed things about Lucas...IMO its good.It worked and i got many more trouble free miles after that.

i used the lucas oil stabilizor on my 86 gmc 4.3 for years and sold it with over 250k on it and still running strong. i've always sworn by the lucas additative, but i've had a nagging feeling it's value may only be in my mind. this month will be my first oil change since i bought the gp. only 3k on the oil now without it. i was planning on adding a half quart of lucas on the next oil change. i think i'll make a digital sound track of before and after, and maybe a third in another 3k right before i change the oil again and compare the noise signiatures in graphic form on the pc to see if there is any real change. I'll use the same brand of oil and filter as the previous oil change to try to keep all variables the same. i'll keep you'all informed.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by bombergp

This noise was explained last month as being some extra cold clearance necessary in the wrist pin bearings. Search back you'll find it.

sorry to try your patience but i did do a review and a search of recent posts before posting my question. i did another search again, after your repy, using the phrases "wrist pin" and "cold clearance" and found nothing from last month, and only one from last winter. there are over 5,224 threads on this forum and over 31,181 replies. imposible to go thru them all and sometimes our nomenclature in searches and postings may not be the same causing some of the questions to be repetative. if you have knowledge of a post that i might have missed, please be so kind as to post the link to it.

[regalfriend]

I only use Lucas as a last resort before repairs. Its very thick, like molasess. Im sure there are some downsides to it. It may put more stress on the oil pump. I have a 91 Mazda Navajo. It leaks about 1 pint of power steering fluid per day. I bought a pint of Lucas P/S fluid additive. I didnt think it would stop the leak and whining but it did. Im sure at some point this stuff will stop working, but for now i dont put anymore PS fluid in.

[bombergp]

Originally Posted by ericn1300

sorry to try your patience but i did do a review and a search of recent posts before posting my question. i did another search again, after your repy, using the phrases "wrist pin" and "cold clearance" and found nothing from last month, and only one from last winter. there are over 5,224 threads on this forum and over 31,181 replies. imposible to go thru them all and sometimes our nomenclature in searches and postings may not be the same causing some of the questions to be repetative. if you have knowledge of a post that i might have missed, please be so kind as to post the link to it.

I ain't upto speed on linking old posts, but search piston slap or cold start knocking sound, troy1 and the other responders explain a bunch about it. I stumbled on this last month, its from Feb. '05.

[richtazz]

The knock you are hearing is one of two things, both very common in high mileage 3.1's. The first is piston slap, caused by the relatively short piston skirt/high piston pin placement in these engines when they upped the displacement from 2.8 to 3.1 liters. The second cause is lifter noise. These engines use a "zero-lash" set up where the rocker arms are torqued to a specific value, rather than lashed. This arrangement doesn't allow for increased clearances when parts wear and will cause a clatter/knock at start up until the lifters "pump up" with oil pressure. Neither is anything to worry about, as long as it doesn't continue after the engine is warm, then you may have a more serious problem. Keep an eye on your coolant too, as these engines are famous for intake gasket failures that lead to coolant consumption and oil contamination.

[ericn1300]

thanks for the info guys. i seem to have both lifter noise and some slapping. i let the vehicle warmup in the driveway, something i rarely do, and the lifter noise goes away fairly soon but the slap persists until the temp guage starts to move at around 120 degrees then the engine is so quiet i have to look at the tach to make sure it's running.

thanks again, i guess i can stop worrying about. i'll just refrain from stomping on it until it gets up to temp (if i can).