Problem! HELP!

I have a 2000 Maxima with lease maturing in a few months. A few days ago, I noticed a slight vibration coming from the engine, as if some unusual metal friction was happening under the hood. The noise was louder and increasing in pitch with revs going up. Not loud, but noticable through the steering wheel. The engine still pulled strongly with the usual smooth torque, only something was rubbing.

The next day, I had my appointment with Nissan for a check up. Before I took the car to the garage, the car wouldn't start. It almost did, but never reached a stable idle. The car was towed in Nissan garage.

Nissan called me this afternoon to inform me the problem is major, even though they can't tell me what it is. To find out what the problem is, they say they must remove the engine and open it up. The things is, to do that they asked me to sign a form that states I'm aware the engine must be taken apart and that Nissan won't cover repairs under warranty. They said I was negligent for not changing oil at specified intervals. The oil was last changed at 25,700 miles, the car currently has 30,600. I was supposed to change oil at 3,700 miles intervals. The engine died after 4,500 miles.

Please help! What's wrong? Can 4,500 mile old oil possibly damage an engine to such extent? Is Nissan trying to get away with it? What should I do? Get an independent mechanic to determine whether the oil is truly responsible for the damage?

Thanks,
Christian A.
Montreal, Canada
[email protected]

they're jerkin you bro. unless you never changed the oil that's not the problem. especially on a 2000

ya should make them sign a form that says if they are wrong, u can sue them (that would be nice huh?):p

That's what I thought. I never abused the car and under normal use, infrequent oil changes shouldn't do more than accelerate internal wear, reducing longevity. But not cause damage that requires taking the engine out and opening it up, after 30,000 miles! The oil had been checked a few days before the whole incident started, and it was full.

The car now sits in the parking lot of the garage. Should I get the car to another Nissan dealer or an unrelated mechanic for second opinion? The contract I signed states I must perform proper maintenance as suggested by the manufacturer, although the oil change interval is not mentioned anywhere.

I'm pretty sure oil change has nothing to do with the engine failure. The thing is, it's hard to prove. It's also hard to prove bad oil caused the problem. But ultimately, they're getting me to negotiate with a gun on my head: We don't open up the car and tell you what's wrong until you sign a complete responsibility release.

I hope no one goes through this, it's damn frustrating. I'll be sure to let you know how it evolves.

Thanks,
Christian

Absolutely no way this is due to untimely oil changes. In order to ruin an engine that way there would have had to been extreme gross negligence, like not changing the oil ever in the vehicles 37,000 mile history or running the engine for a lengthy amount of time with virtually no oil. Low oil would have become immediately recognizable if for instance you hit something in the road and the oil filter was damaged causing a major leak. Not only would you have noticed something like that because of pure engine performance but your Maxima, of course, has an oil light for such instances.
My suggestion: find another dealer to do the repairs quick before you get completely ripped!

Also it sounds as if your timing chain may have slipped. I'm not sure but the rubbing sound you heard prior to the car not starting could have been a precursor to that. (i.e. something causing the belt to rub against something else) This would seem unlikely but not at all impossible. Its one of the only things that can happen to your engine that would neccesiate such an in depth inspection such as the dealer is describing. It would also explain their reasoning for not wanting to be responsible because this problem basically entails putting a new engine in your vehicle, a process that is costly for the dealer because it requiers a lot of labor. As I said earlier I heavily suggest you take your vehicle to another dealer before you sign anything or let them do anything further to your Maxima.

Hope this helps,
Tdaily

i would have another place look at it and if they find that something else is wrong just get it in writing , then take it back to the nissan dealer

my brother had the same problem with his 2001, he took it back to the dealership he got it from they took a look at his car and told him that he needed a new timing chain. that took care of the vibration in the engine, it also took care of the car staying on in idle position without accelerating it. He also felt a vibration under his feet when he slowed down at anytime. The vibration turned into something that sounded like it was rubbing or banging the underside of the car. He got somebody to look at it for him and he found out that it was something as simple as the wheel bearings, they weren't catching. i don't know if this helps you at all. well good luck and i hope you get your max fixed soon!!:) i back 97wvmax about the thing that you should have them sign something that allows you to sue them:D

hey there is no way on that stupid planet it could be cuz ur 1000 miles late on oil change , i recommend trying another dealer f they give the same crap go to qualified mechanic and ask him to give u a written statement about whats wrong with the car then go back to the dealer and have a mad threatening accent and u'll see:devil:

The lubrication qualities of oil drop off severely after 3000 miles, but not enough to damage the engine severely. Cars these days are actually designed to run well over the 3000 mile limit without an oil change, although it isn't recommended.

Another big thing, just because the oil is full doesn't mean its still good. You really do need to change oil at specified intervals, damage may not be severe at any interval, but damage is cumulative. And if you have repeatedly changed the oil at 6000 miles or so, I could see how that could add extra wear to your engine. However, not enough to destroy it. Have the timing chain checked out. Don't sign that contract, and take your car elsewhere. If they want to screw you, take your car to a mechanic with a good reputation.

MaxPayne, I'm thinking of taking the car elsewhere. Do you think another Nissan dealer will be as dishonest as the first one, or are they independent enough to give me a fair opinion? If I have to go elsewhere, can I find a non-Nissan mechanic capable of working with the VQ modern and, I imagine, complex engine? The usual moms and pops garage won't help me much.

Many people suggested the timing chain slipped or a timing belt bearing went bad. Is there any way to check this without taking the engine out and opening it up? Someone recommended hiring a third rank Nissan mechanic privatly to look at the car. If indeed we're looking at a bad timing belt and all the resulting damage (valves, crank, etc), I know this has nothing to do with bad oil.

Thanks for your input and support guys!

Christian

I know the people at my nissan dealership and they're pretty good people. i don't think it's a nissan policy to screw people like this. see if by some chance an infiniti place would look at it. they have such better customer relations

Unfortunately there is a certian amount of parts that must be removed to access the timing chain. That is one reason they are so expensive to have changed. On top of that if your timing chain has broken or slipped severely your engine could have warped valves etc... that would constitute completely disassembling the engine for repairs. I think you have gotten some pretty good suggestions. As a rule the Mom+Pop stores your speaking of (even the name brand mechanic shops) tend to be very expensive. The only difficulty with taking the car to a place like this is that they can't cover your damage without cost to you, and if your car is under warranty there is absolutely no reason you should incur any expenses whatsoever. I still believe that you should try another dealer. The vast majority of dealerships should be independent enough that they have very little (if any) intercommunication between dealerships. Try going outside a certain mile radius if you leery about trusting another one. If you want to take the initiative and hire a certified Nissan or Infiniti mechanic to take a look at your car after hours that isn't a bad way to go either. He could at least give you a professional opinion of what is wrong with the engine and why prior to you spending a small fortune to fix a problem that isn't really there, or that your being juked into paying for. Bottom line: don't trust this dealer without getting some sort of outside opinion.
Good luck
TDaily

Just out of curiosity, why would the timing chain slip on this 30k mi. engine? I have a 97 and have never had a problem with this. I was just wondering what would cause this.:confused:

There are many reasons why the VQ is the best V-6 engine, but complexity isn't one of them. The VQ is lightweight due to its Aluminum Block and heads; it has a high compression ratio due to its Aluminum heads able to conduct heat away from the combustion chamber quickly (thus the need for 91 Octane, but lower octane will not destroy or hurt the engine); The journals and throw surfaces are micropolished, the same technique used in race engines to ensure a quality bearing surface increasing life and decreasing wear; the fuel mileage is decent compared to the amount of peak power it can produce.

Because of all these things, the VQ can take quite a bit of abuse. However, this does not mean its indestructable and isn't subject to the occasional flaw in manufacturing or workmanship. The VQ has a timing chain instead of a belt, which should never require replacement and should never slip. But then again, there are those pesky imperfections in manufacturing and workmanship that can cause something to fail. At the time of production, things may check out and pass the Quality Standards, but can later manifest itself because of unforseen conditions. This is exactly what a warranty is for. Your engine should last at least 100k miles with little or no problems, 200k and 300k isn't unheard of either. Mine has 116k on it and still runs like it had 40k or less.

Like everyone else says, take it to another dealer, preferably the one that doesn't hold your contract. Other dealerships should be less likely to hold that over your head simply because of lack of knowledge. The Nissan Dealership you bought the car from knows the terms of your contract and are betting on you not knowing anything about the car. They also know that they could pin you on irregular oil changes as well and void your warranty.

Take a look at the contract you signed, take a look at what will void the warranty, remember that the VQ is THE best V-6 engine you can buy regardless of price, and challenge the dealership with these facts. Theres no way in hell that engine should be experiencing problems at this point in its life, that is, unless you haven't changed the oil since you got the car.

Everyone, I briefly talked to my Nissan dealer today and he essentially repeated that it's the dealer's policy to get a release form signed before touching any engine. I will probably hire a Nissan guy to look up the car outside opening hours.

I'm very impressed with the quality of the knowledge being passed on this board, I feel I'm getting the most accurate and honest info here. Thanks!

Now, I have receipts for at least 3 oil changes during the car's life. The problem happened overnight, so nothing gradual as we'd expect with slow but cumulative damage from internal friction due to poor lubrification. Could a timing chain bearing be faulty and cause the problem? Before I got the car towed in for repair, the car wouldn't start. The starter almost fired up the engine but it never reached a stable idle. I'm thinking this may be due to incorrect timing. In which case oil has nothing to do with my problem and warranty.

What are the symptoms of a badly lubricated engine?

Christian

A badly lubricated engine will show signs of deterioration well before it completely quits. You would have noticed a slight knock in the engine due to poorly lubricated heads. It would have started out very lightly and progressed fairly rapidly to a severe and very repititous knocking sound that you could hear very clearly, especially upon acceleration. You would have known without a doubt if this was your problem. The knocking sound would have started long ago and would have occured everytime the heads changed positions (many times in a matter of seconds) It would have been virtually impossible for you not to noticed symptoms such as this prior to your engine completely quitting.

I guess a 'knock' is a detonation? The sound I was hearing was continuous, not seperate 'bangs' or bursts of noise. The problem also appeared suddenly, the engine wouldn't start 3 days after I first noticed the problem.

The car will be towed to another dealer tonight, so I'm hoping to have progress tomorrow.

Thanks to all of you for your valuable input,

Christian

The loss of your timing chain would throw everything all out of whack involed with pistons, fuel mixture, etc. I think you shoould find a trusted mechanic and tell him to get his ass over there to the garage and get his opinion before Nissan does anything else with the car. Just a thought....

Sorry to sound like I'm playing the Devil's Advocate to everyone else here on this board but the VQ engine needs TLC and not changing the oil at the suggested intervals can (not always) lead to damaged engine internals.

The VQ has a molybednum (hope I spelled it right) coating on most or some of it's internals, if dirt from the oil continues to cause friction which causes wear, couple that with heat and the normal reaction of the oil to lose its' viscosity after prolonged use and it (dirt) will wear into the metals which will cause damage.

Due to the high compression of the VQ the engine is constantly working at a high level of performance and in order to maintain that performance you have to keep that engine clean.

Seriously, the one thing the mechanics won't BS you about is the VQ, because they know that this is the thing that makes the Max, the Max and they are held to the strictest schedule for oil & filter changes because of it. Don't believe me, look in your owner's manual, this is why they make the statement that they are not going to be at any fault if they have to do work on your engine while you weren't following the stringent guidelines to oil/filter change services.

Nissan knows they make $hitty trannies, this is why they try to bull people out of making them fix them (cost them money, lots) because there are so many that break and they're still under warranty when it happens to most if not all, I know because it happened to me.
The engine however is a different story.

Update. The car has been towed to another dealer and a mechanic quickly looked over the car. Although the head was clean, metal deposits were found in the oil pan, so there's been premature wear. More work needs to be done to figure out what happened, but the mechanic suspects a cam bearing may have failed. The dealer will forward copies of maintenance receipts and pictures of the engine to Nissan, we should soon find out whether the warranty will cover repairs.

I should have more info and perhaps pictures sometime early next week.

Christian