Head swap 2ZZ-GE to 1ZZ-FE?

hey, can I swap the 2ZZ-GE head into the 1ZZ-FE for the VVTL-i kinda like you can swap the honda heads for the VTEC?

.....why would you want to go from a good fliowing better desigend head like the 2zzge head to the 1zzfe head?

if you mean 1zzfe to 2zzGe (no 2zzfe ever) then no, you would need the 2zzge wiering harness and ecu as well, but yes it will fit on a 1zz block

No i'm saying can I swap the head off a 2zz-GE and put it onto the 1zz-fe and have the VVTL-i? The VVTL-i is like the VTEC, am i correct?

not withought using the 2zzge wiering harness, ecu and prettymuch doing the entire 1zz to 2zz swap, and in that case you might as well us e the 2zzge bottem end becuase it has lighter internals, the 1zzfe internals cant rev to 8400 stock

Oh alright, thanks for the information. I was just thinkin why waste my time doing a whole engine swap if I can just swap the head, ecu and wiring harness.

becuase your basically doing a whole engien swap - having to use a cherry picker to pull the old enigine out, might as well do a full swap

Where could I get a 2ZZ-GE? I looked for a used one on ebay, but no one was selling any...

trade your car in and buy a gt-s?

No. Buy a GT-S.

^lol love your answer

could a stock gt-s beat a '97 nissan 240sx?

could a stock gt-s beat a '97 nissan 240sx?

A stock GT-S would MURDER a 240sx even with bolt ons.

Refer to this video i took a couple weeks ago. The 240 with I/E is in the middle. Watch how fast he disappears.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2008521326479309231

240s blow with the stock truck motor....

actually the k24 can make more power than an sr20, its been proven, and ive seen first hand.... i would leave the 2.4 in there and boost/build it for the price of an sr20 swap

hey vip, was that gsr modded or no? because that car was pretty fast, but that 240sx is pretty weak.

Oh yeah and my buddy just bought one of the SAFC's for his 97 talon TSI. I see what you guys are talking about now.

Is there anything like that for celica's or civics?

actually the k24 can make more power than an sr20, its been proven, and ive seen first hand.... i would leave the 2.4 in there and boost/build it for the price of an sr20 swap

I guess I just see the idiots, lol =P I need to move to nor cal. Around here if they are boosted they aren't boosted a lot and if they are boosted a lot they're on the brink of breaking, lol. One guy was running his hard out here and after a while of track use it well... died, lol. And if they aren't boosted they're so slow... only thing that seems slower than a N/A 240 is a V6 stang :rofl:

lol i had aguy talkin shit back when i had my jet ecu and allthe garbage about how celica srun 21 1/4 and fuckin out launched him, it was sad

lol

hey vip, was that gsr modded or no? because that car was pretty fast, but that 240sx is pretty weak.

Oh yeah and my buddy just bought one of the SAFC's for his 97 talon TSI. I see what you guys are talking about now.

Is there anything like that for celica's or civics?

Dude.. that gsr had a 100shot of nitrous lol.

yes celica's civics can use the safc. Don't use it on your 7th gen celica though.

Refer to this video i took a couple weeks ago. The 240 with I/E is in the middle. Watch how fast he disappears.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2008521326479309231

The GSR with headwork, cams, and 100 shot of nitrious barely pulled on you. You got one fast ass Celica GT-S.

man they sound nice XD

yes vip does

Dude.. that gsr had a 100shot of nitrous lol.

yes celica's civics can use the safc. Don't use it on your 7th gen celica though.


I wont use it on my stock celica, but why couldn't I use it on my 7th gen?


What do you have in your celica vip that makes it so fast? Is it still intake, exhaust and apexi power FC?

The 2zz-ge will not fit on the 1zz block. They are in the same family, but unlike Honda's the engines are quite different. Just swap in a 2zzge and be done.

I wont use it on my stock celica, but why couldn't I use it on my 7th gen?


What do you have in your celica vip that makes it so fast? Is it still intake, exhaust and apexi power FC?

Yeah, that's all I have. The SAFC will work for about a day, then the ECU will detect the changes and will compensate for the changes that the SAFC made. So it won't work.

thats sucks, the celica engine sounds pretty smart. So what does the Apexi power FC do?

replaces the ecu entirely

and the 2zzge head fits on the 1zzfe block, direct bolt on (expect 1 or 2 water jackets are slightly off, i believe)

its been done a couple of times because the 1zzfe crank is beter suited for FI highg hp numbers

replaces the ecu entirely

and the 2zzge head fits on the 1zzfe block, direct bolt on (expect 1 or 2 water jackets are slightly off, i believe)

its been done a couple of times because the 1zzfe crank is beter suited for FI highg hp numbers

The 2zz-ge head WILL NOT fit on a 1zz block. The only thing that is the same on those 2 engines is that they both have "zz" in their name. The valves will hit the bores and the bore center to center is different. This isn't a b-series honda.

Wow, crazy. I'm going to have to ask some professionals. I'm not sure who is right, or has more experience but i'll figure it out.

i thought there was a guy making 500+whp with a 1zzfe block crank rods and pistons and w a 2zzge head, meh guess not

i thought there was a guy making 500+whp with a 1zzfe block crank rods and pistons and w a 2zzge head, meh guess not

The highest HP zz engines are:

1. george.d...................438 whp
2. BlueDevilCelica...........389 whp
3. rknily4e.....................375 whp
4. monkeywrench...........365 whp
5. Smaay......................350 whp
6. soceur......................350 whp
7. DanVVTL-i.................342 whp
8. c2gas.......................340 whp
9. Reyzin.......................309 whp
10. Keyshawn.................267 whp

A lot of those people are about to get bumped off the list pretty soon.

why are they gonna get bumped off the list? are all of those AF names?

How many Horsepower do you think it would take to have a 10 second celica?

i'm not sure where the list came from. i see alot of those guys on newcelica.org they are all forced induction as well obviously
the only thing ive seen swapped over from a 1zz is the crank, i cannot speak for the rest i never heard of a 2zz head on a 1zz block.

438 pretty nice.

All of those guys are from newcelica.org. And yes, the only thing that people swap from these motors is the crank from the 1zz which strokes the 2zz to around 1.97 liters. But then of course you can't rev as high :(

why are they gonna get bumped off the list? How many Horsepower do you think it would take to have a 10 second celica?

Because there are about five people I know of right now that are almost done with their cars that will be putting out close to, if not over 400whp.. maybe a couple over 500whp.

The 2zz-ge definitely has the potential to make serious power, nobody has really taken the steps to do it yet though. These guys are the first ones to push the envelope on what this motor can do.

Here I quote Boosted2.0 from newcelica.org (or Griffin on alltrac.net) from a thread about a debate on the top 10HP celica list on newcelica.org. People were complaining about a 3s-gte swap someone did in a 7th gen and how it was "so much easier" to make power in a 3s-gte.

I like how you guys think its easy to get 500 HP out of the 3S - yeah, sure its easy, all you need is a fully built motor, ported head, oversize valves, huge ass turbo, huge injectors, ems, fuel system, 3" exhaust all the way back, custom intake, oversize TB, cams, gears, race gas, etc.

You do the same to a 2ZZ and it will make just as much power if not more - the head is way better. The only reason it seems like such a big hurdle is because no-one has done all of it yet. But think about it - take Littlerockets new bottom end hes cooking up, slap some head studs on it, a nice head with a bit of port work on the exhaust side of things, a NICE well designed turbo manifold with an external WG and a T76 and a 75 shot to get you spooled, and you're home free. For more useable power do what Smaay has done and get a GT35R.

Its doable, but hasn't been done yet. The growing pains are still being felt. The 3S's main advantage is 20 years of R&D (yes its that old - debuted in the 86 Alltrac). IMO the 2ZZ has more potentialdue to inherent advantages in terms of redline, head design, and cam design.
__________________
Team Mechanic - Controlled Inertia
1990 Celica Alltrac Turbo

glad to see people are kicking it up a notch, just wish toyota wasn't hasty and axed the celica/MR-S... I remember when companies just said "no we can't even put ITBs on a 2ZZ" or "we can make them, but they won't fit" and now I've seen at least one running a nice ITB setup. Show those honda heads what a yota can do =D

glad to see people are kicking it up a notch, just wish toyota wasn't hasty and axed the celica/MR-S... I remember when companies just said "no we can't even put ITBs on a 2ZZ" or "we can make them, but they won't fit" and now I've seen at least one running a nice ITB setup. Show those honda heads what a yota can do =D

It can be done, it's just that on the celica the ITB's would hit the hood. You would have to get an aftermarket hood to do it.

So there has never been a 10 second celica?

And what do you mean by "head-work"? like new cams? How much Horsepower could new cams seriously get you? What would new valves, like aftermarket valves and springs help? They dont take a lot of abuse do they?

what is an ITB?


What would a 1zz crank help in a 2zz motor?



What does the FE and the GE mean in the 1zz-fe and the 2zz-ge?

settle down man... one question at a time, lol

F designates econo head
G designates performance head.

The E at the end means fuel injected.

ITB = Individual throttle bodies.

I let someone else explain the other stuff.

It can be done, it's just that on the celica the ITB's would hit the hood. You would have to get an aftermarket hood to do it.


I don't remember this girl having a weird hood. But maybe I forgot. But yea this girl fitted her Celica with ITBs. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/SigmaProjects/Car%20stuff/7thgenwithITB.jpg

yea geroge D is the guy w the blue valve cover and blue intake mani runnin the gt35 right? i thouht hes now making over 500?

i know theres a guy thats on celica tech as weell that is either done or almost done but not in the car expecting to make well over 500WHP w a 1zz crank

yea geroge D is the guy w the blue valve cover and blue intake mani runnin the gt35 right? i thouht hes now making over 500?

i know theres a guy thats on celica tech as weell that is either done or almost done but not in the car expecting to make well over 500WHP w a 1zz crank

george.d is from greece i believe. I don't think he was running a GT35R. I know smaay is using a GT35R and he is making 350whp at 11psi on a stroked motor.. he is still working out some bugs before he cranks the boost up. He will probably be taking the #1 spot sometime soon.

So there has never been a 10 second celica?

And what do you mean by "head-work"? like new cams? How much Horsepower could new cams seriously get you? What would new valves, like aftermarket valves and springs help? They dont take a lot of abuse do they?

There hasn't been a 10 second 7th gen celica yet. There has been a 10 second Celica Alltrac though.

I'll try to explain this very simply. When someone says "head work" they are usually talking about getting the head ported and polished which improves the flow of the head. With the cams, it really depends on what the specs are on them. You can usually get different stages of cams that have more duration and lift. You can also get oversized valves (along with a nice port job) to increase the flow into and out of the combustion chamber (cylinder). Aftermarket springs let you rev higher without getting valve float.

hehe I think you just made more questions for him. So yea... I forgot to ask the girl about the ITBs on her celi, do you know what brand those are?

In the VVTL-i what is the "lift"? what is the "lift" actually lifting?

What is the point of getting your head ported and polished? aren't they going to just get dirty again?

And what does getting your head "ported" mean anyways? polished is kinda self explainatory...

If i got oversized valves would I need to get a "port job"? and with the oversized valves would I need to get oversizes valve springs too?

What is a valve float?

Does the ITB help the celica a lot more then just having a cold air intake?

And with the ITB you couldn't get forced induction could you?

Where could I get some ITB's?

Actually there is a 7th gen celica running 10's.

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/72416833-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/72416892-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/72416930-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/72417999-L.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/bazzagt4/PIC_0024.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/bazzagt4/PIC_0019.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/bazzagt4/nettyssantapod009.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/bazzagt4/PIC_0013.jpg

Spec apparently is..

Engine: ST205 3sgte, 2100cc, 650ish bhp. HKS Stroker Crankshaft Crower Rods JE custom pistons ARP bolts HKS camshafts HKS cam pulleys Ferrea Valvetrain Dual valve spring conversion. Fensport Racing cylinder head. Fensport racing intake manifold. Turbocharger System: Garrett GT3542 Ball bearing, watercooled HKS stainless tubular manifold Tial 44mm racing wastegate 90mm Exhaust system. Titanium rear silencer. Transmission: Fensport Racing triple plate clutch. Fensport Racing 5 speed H pattern, Dog engagement, Straight cut gearbox. Fensport Racing front LSD plate type. Cusco Rear LSD plate type. GT4 driveshafts. Cooling systems. Aluminium double row Radiator. Swirl pot and Header tank. HKS Supra intercooler. Exact Oil cooler. Exact Fuel Cooler. ERL water injection Suspension: Tein Flex coilovers. Superflex Poly bushes. Adjustable camber front and rear. Carbon strut bracing. Brakes: Tarox 330mm vented disc with alloy bell and 10 pot calliper. Rear 270x10 solid disc with 6 pot calliper. Fuel system HKS 1000cc injectors HKS fuel rail. HKS adjustable pressure regulator. Aeromotive High capacity fuel pump. Aeromotive pressure regulator Holley Lift pump Swirl pot. -10 Stainless braided fuel lines. Electronics: Custom wiring loom. Motec M4 professional ecu Lambda control Data logging Boost control Launch control Full throttle gearshift Motec Sport dashboard. Exterior: Carbon Bonnet with custom vent Carbon Tailgate GT type front bumper and C-one spoiler. TRD Rear wing Polycarbonate rear window. GT Rear lights. Wheels: Rays TE37 Tyres:TOYO R888 - Road Legal

11 sec quarters on its first runs when the car was only 3 days old

a week later it went 10.63 @ 134mph

umm geeze, lol. Too bad he's a UKer... now how about a 10 second 2ZZ 7th gen =P

In the VVTL-i what is the "lift"? what is the "lift" actually lifting?

the L referse to valve lift, theres a second lobe on the cam that lifts the valves highger and sometimes for a longer duration, its like haveing a stock cam for lower rpm (better gas mieleage more response) and an agressive HP cam for higher end, i believe the crossover is at 6000 rpm on a 2zz

What is the point of getting your head ported and polished? aren't they going to just get dirty again?

porting referse to opening, opening the ports (dosent always) gives more flow to the head. polishing makes the port smoother to allow better flow, but usualy the intake port is not polished and is left slightly rough due the the gasolinene and air mixture

And what does getting your head "ported" mean anyways? polished is kinda self explainatory...

look above

If i got oversized valves would I need to get a "port job"? and with the oversized valves would I need to get oversizes valve springs too?

prettu much, not unless the valve stem changed size (sometimes does), the valve connects to a keeper/retariner that keeps the valvestem attached to the srping, you would need a dirrent set of retainers/keepers but not a diffrent valve

and yes you would need a "port job" the holes in the head have to be mahicened to fit the bigger valves, its called a valve seat, and they need to be set to be able to seal with the new valve

What is a valve float?

your engine is designed to revv to a certain rpm due to the vavletrain, and bottem end, usually the lighter the bottem end the higher you can revv (less roatatioal mass, i.e. why the 1zz crank is used in turbo 2zz's, cuz it is heaveryer/stronger) also the vavltrain playes a factor, the spring is used to push the valve back into place, if the spring is too weak it can actually not even be fast enough to pull the valve back into place by the time it needs to be, witch it what valve float is, the valve train moves too fast and the valves dont have enough time to open.close properly.

Does the ITB help the celica a lot more then just having a cold air intake?

yes, think the stock 4afe TB is only 42mm, what if you had 4 38 mm throttle bodies? they flow alot better

And with the ITB you couldn't get forced induction could you?

you have 4 inlets instead of 1, you would have to route the charge pipes to all 4 openings and hope they are all recieveing the same amount of air, becuase if not you will run too rich/too lean

Where could I get some ITB's?
for what? usually you have to build your own, you could have somoene build them for you or find a used one thats already built....i love the sound of ITB's, and they add adecent amount of power

What is a valve float?

your engine is designed to revv to a certain rpm due to the vavletrain, and bottem end, usually the lighter the bottem end the higher you can revv (less roatatioal mass, i.e. why the 1zz crank is used in turbo 2zz's, cuz it is heaveryer/stronger)

The 1zz crank isn't any stronger than the 2zz crank. The 1zz crank has a longer stroke than the 2zz crank. So when you put the 1zz crank in the 2zz you get yourself a displacement of about 1.97 liters (pretty much a 2.0). Most people running stroker zz engines are n/a btw.

Thanks a lot dude, I thought people were ignoring me. lol :)

If you were running a stroker zz why wouldn't you wanna put forced induction into it? Stroker engine stronger right?

What comes with a stroker engine?

www.newcelica.org you can register there and search around to learn all of this stuff

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/toyota_engine_packages.html
with the stroker you have the option of a high compression package for more hp n/a which is usually the choice

no the 1zz crank is stronger, its much heavery and built out of the same material, i.e. the 4age crank (20/42) is way stronger than the 18/40 crank becuase the 18/40 crank is way lighter witch enables it to revv higher, thats simple pyshics
its exactly like the 20v 4age cranks, the silvertop revs to 7800 and the blacktop to 8400 but people use the silvertop becuase its heavyer therefore it can take more of a beating

the 1zz crank is stronger

what does the "18/40" and the "20/42" mean?

crank journal size, the mr2 in my driveway is a 18/40mm crank, all other 4ages other than the 1st gen ones in the mr2 are 20/42 becuase its alot stronger and has beter oil passageways

no the 1zz crank is stronger, its much heavery and built out of the same material, i.e. the 4age crank (20/42) is way stronger than the 18/40 crank becuase the 18/40 crank is way lighter witch enables it to revv higher, thats simple pyshics
its exactly like the 20v 4age cranks, the silvertop revs to 7800 and the blacktop to 8400 but people use the silvertop becuase its heavyer therefore it can take more of a beating

the 1zz crank is stronger

Nobody has EVER had a problem with the 2zz crank. I was saying people don't go to 1zz cranks because they are stronger, they use them to increase stroke. As much as I read newcelica.org, I've NEVER came across anyone that was worried about the crankshaft not being strong enough in the 2zz. It hasn't been a problem yet, and I doubt it will be in the future.

I wouldn't expect it either considering the GT-S is supposed to be the top of the line celica.

So what journal size would you recommend if you were going to swap cranks?

usualy the bigger the journal size the stronger the crank, but the less ability it will have to revv

more weight usualy means stronger, less weight means weaker but more ability to revv

im not doubting the ability of the 2zz crank, i just know that the 1zz is stronger...just like how the 7afe crank is actauly stronger than the 4age crank because its bigger and heavyer, plus it adds displacment

alright, now i got a question. They say the ideal rod to stroke ratio is 1.75. What crank would give the best rod stroke ratio? 1zz oe 2zz? Considering everyone agrees that 1zz is better in the 2zz block.