2000 Passport has intermittent hard start

I just bought a used 2000 Passport. One month later I have a major problem. In the morning car starts great, but when I drive 15 miles to work and try to start 9 hours later, car sometimes takes 3-20 times to start. It will try to start, but just won't turn over. When it finally starts, it can be restarted over and over without problems. It is intermittent, so doesn't happen every day. Car sounds and runs great afterwards, until the next day or so when it happens all over again. When trying to start, it doesn't smell flooded or anything. It cranks fine, just won't start.

It's been to the Honda dealer twice, but they tell me since they can't reproduce it there, then there's nothing they can do. I'm afraid to drive now since I don't want to get stuck. It's definitely not the battery (will try to start and besides, it's brand new and was checked by dealer), and just passed the 45,000 mile inspection at the dealer with flying colors.

Anyone have any suggestions? I don't want to just blindly replace parts unless I know for sure they are bad. The dealer is charging me a small fortune!

It it either the intake manafold gasket or the fuel pressor regulator.

http://www.geocities.com/endre_rl/isuzufaq.htm#faq22

you say it will try to start. does it turn over or just click

When trying to start, it doesn't just click, it actually sounds like it's going to start, but just doesn't actually turn over. I guess it's not getting any fuel since it never smells like it's flooding. It seems to only happen after it's been driven at least 10 miles and sits for about 8-10 hours. It's so inconsistent with no pattern. I can let it sit overnight after driving 10 miles and it starts right up. It happens more often when it's only sat for 8-10 hours, then when it has sat overnight. It's the strangest thing since it runs so great once it starts and can be restarted as many times as possible without a hitch. All I know is the problem is getting worse as it's taking longer and longer to turn over, yet it starts right up each time it's at the dealer.

Update: Just got off the phone with the dealer. I asked them about the intake manifold gasket and the fuel pressure regulator. The mechanic said most likely it wasn't the intake manifold gasket and since they can't get it to fail, they don't know for sure what the problem is. They recommended first replacing the relay and if that doesn't fix it then return it and they will replace the fuel pressure regulator. I hate replacing parts which I don't know are truly bad or not, but as far as I'm concerned, the car is undriveable at this point. I guess I have no choice, so I'll go with the cheapest repair first. I suspect the last owner got rid of the car because he/she was experiencing this same problem.

There's a bit of confusion with your terminology Mowzer (no biggie :smokin: ).. So the starter is actually engaging & cranking/spinning the engine over right? The engine just wont fire up. Have you tried mashing the gas pedal while cranking the engine to see if that makes a difference? Are you getting a check engine light at any time? This *sounds* like a fuel delivery concern (fuel pump, or fuel press regulator not allowing the fuel rail to pressurize) , but needs more troubleshooting to be sure :uhoh: . Keep posting any symptoms/concerns & maybe we can get to the bottom of this!!
G/luck
Joel

Sorry, I'm probably not using the best terminology to describe the symptoms since cars are certainly not my forte. Yes, the starter is actually engaging, yet the engine won't fire up. Yes, I've tried mashing the gas pedal, but makes no difference. The check engine light has never come on.

The Honda dealer says they can just keep replacing parts, but as you know, this begins to be quite expensive. He first recommended replacing the relay since it is only a $8 part. If that doesn't work, then the next step will be the Fuel Pressure Regulator. If I'm still having problems, then probably next would be the actual Fuel Pump. Of course by this time, I will have probably invested more money than if I had bought a much newer vehicle :-).

Thanks everyone for all your help! I really appreciate the advice. I'll keep you posted.

mashing the gas pedal will prevent injectors from activating while cranking try this before starting it turn key on for 5 seconds turn it off for five and then try starting it. Oh and has the fuel sending unit or fuel pump been replaced recently

I had a very similar problem with my Rodeo 99. I brought it into the dealer numberous times. My check engine light was never on. The dealer was never able to tell me what was going on. About two weeks later, it just quit starting. I had to have it towed to the shop. I brought it to an independent place, as opposed to the dealer, because I was so fursterated at the dealer for not fixing it when I had it in and now having to pay for a towing.

This place diagnosed it almost right away. It was the crank shaft position sensor. They replaced it and did the timing belt while they were in there. I haven't had a starting problem in over a year. I hope this helps!

Unfortunately since I bought the vehicle used only a couple of months ago, I don't know anything about it's past history except it was a lease return which eventually was sold at auction. It ended up at a used car lot where I purchased it for it's rather low mileage for an older vehicle.

It's currently at the dealer waiting for the new relay to arrive. I also left a message asking them about the crank shaft position sensor. I too am frustrated with the dealer as he basically told me that I need to wait for the car to fail completely before they could diagnose it. Of course for me, that would mean I would be stuck out in the middle of no where at night and have to be towed 40 miles with no way to get home.

Thanks again. Any advice is greatly appreciated and I'll try anything at this point. I'll keep you posted.

I had a similar problem with a previous vehicle only trouble starting, but once it was running there was no problem. I found that it was the relay that controls the fuel pump. Very inexpensive item and easy to replace. Sounds like you are on the right track changing the relay first.

Well relay was replaced, but now problem seems almost worse then it was before. The problem is almost repeatable each time now when it has been driven for at least 10 miles, then sits for at least 10 hours.

Dealer was no help as they will not drive it for 10 miles, then let it sit to reproduce the problem. They claimed they did, but odometer proved they really didn't. I've been told that the only way they can diagnose the problem is to let it fail completely, then have it towed. To me, this is an unacceptable response as I want it fixed before I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere.

My next step will be to bring it to another mechanic (non-dealer) and see if they can determine if the problem is with the fuel pressure regulator or something else.

One odd thing which may only be a coincidence. I seem to get it to start faster if I try from neutral (it's an automatic). It will only take 2-3 attempts rather than 5-10 attempts from park.

You figure this out yet?

No :-(. The mechanic I brought it to hasn't had a chance to look at it yet in the two days it's been sitting there. From the dealer's point of view, there's nothing more they can do for me until the part fails completely. I can continue replacing parts without knowing definitely if they are bad, but the costs are too high. To replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator, I've been quoted approximately $300. For the Fuel Pump itself, approximately $700, for the crank shaft position sensor, over $1000. Since the parts are probably still covered under my extended warranty, I can't claim unless I can prove the part is truly bad. And I can't do this, until it completely fails. It's been a very frustrating experience so far! I'll provide an update once this new mechanic has actually looked at it.

Update: Bad news for me. This new mechanic also told me to come pick up the car as there is nothing they can do for me until the part fails. Therefore my only option is to wait until I'm stuck. :-(.

It just keeps getting worse. I asked the mechanic to quote me what he would charge to replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator. He called back and told me that the part was so back ordered, that he couldn't even be put on a wait list. He said this is an indication that this particular part failed often. He suggested if I wanted this part replaced, then I would have to try to locate the part myself.

st charles will help you out.
the part costs 54 bucks and will take about an hour to replace.

Thanks. I was able to find a company in New Jersey which claimed it was in stock for $59.78 with free shipping. Hopefully I can receive it next week and get it replaced. Of course, there's no guarantee that the Fuel Pressure Regulator was the problem and I may be replacing for nothing. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for the help!

Mowzer, this might be a long-shot, but it could be worth your while to try to locate an isuzu dealership willing to look at your passport for you. An isuzu dealership will likely be WAY more familiar with your re-badged 'zu than any honda dealer. There's gotta be a better way then guessing & throwing new parts at your truck :uhoh: .
G/luck
Joel

Well, here's an update. Vehicle was in the repair shop today. They just replaced the fuel filter and the fuel pressure regulator.

One interesting note, they found water in the gas tank. I did notice the problem seemed to occur more when it rained or there was a high dew point. I just figured since it is almost Winter, that it was just coincidence and the part was just failing more often (nothing to do with weather).

Of course, it still may be unrelated. I do regularly get gas at a local USA station, but hopefully I'm not receiving bad gas. The cap was checked, and it fits tightly. I guess another possibility may be a small crack in the fuel filler neck? I'm not sure how much water they found, but I would think if I had much water in the tank, then it would run roughly, which it wasn't.

Anyway, they put some additive in the tank to remove the water and recommended I do the same every other oil change.

I'll keep you posted if the problem is fixed.
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Update: Next morning after vehicle returned it failed again :-(. Same old story, cranks fine, won't start. Two Hundred dollars later, I can rule out the Relay, the Fuel Pressure Regular, and the Fuel Filter. I've only had the car a few months and I hate it! I'd sell it, but will lose tons of money selling as is.

My plan now is to save some more money (even though it took me a couple years to save the cash for this one), and sell as is. I just hope I don't get stuck between now and when I get rid of it. Should be some kind of Lemon Law for used cars. I feel as I just lost $15,000 and the car has been in the shop more than the road.

Unless anyone else has an inexpensive suggestion, this car is on it's way out! (BTW: The Crank Shaft Position Sensor was mentioned as a possible cause, but I was quoted over $1000 for the repair, too much to spend for not a sure thing).
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Just out of curiosity, if the vehicle starts easier if the gas petal is pushed when cranking, what type of problem would this indicate?

Thanks!

I have a 99 Passport that does the same thing (among many other problems). Dealer told me it was my manifold gasket - needs to be replaced. Mine was doing the hard start for months before the check engine light came on.

I had the same issue with my 2000 Rodeo 3.2 and replaced the fuel pressure regulator and didn't fix the problem. I then cleaned out the egr and it started fine since then.

hope this helps

My 98 passport has also had trouble starting and has even died while I was driving it a few times! It cranks but doesn't catch. It has a check engine code p1133 too! I took it to the dealer and they replaced the ignition switch for $175 and said that there was no history of the code. Now my car is still doing the same thing! They told me that I need to replace the wireharness for $660. I don't trust them because I just paid $175 to fix the problem and nothing has changed!

Just a bit of history, I have changed so many parts on this car already! Here is the list: ignition switch, fuel pump and relays, radiator, alternator, intake gasket, and the battery.

I need help I have no idea what to do!!

.... It has a check engine code p1133 too! I took it to the dealer and they replaced the ignition switch for $175 and said that there was no history of the code. ...
what did they mean? that's they don't know what the code is, or that they don't have any experience with that code? did they say what the code is?