I Know This Is Stupid

Ive heard alot of people say different stuff and i dont know what to believe so i am asking you guys.....whats the differene between short ram air and cold air intake

Short ram is like it sounds. It is short. It's filter is just to the left of the head, and sucks air from the top of the motor bay. Cold air intake is longer, the pipe snakes arond and eventually ends up down right in front of your front passenger tire. Thus is sucks colder air than the short ram since the short ram sucks air from the hottest part of the bay. Cold air is denser so by the cold air intake taking in colder air (due to where it is located) it will make a bit more power! make sense?

only at idle will a cold air truely make that much difference, Ive seen a test on Team-integra.net that showed while moving the temperature at the filter element of a short ram was the same as the outside temperature....i found that info to be pretty interesting.

I don't know if I would believe that. I am pretty sure that the intakes are dyno tested, and the cold air intake makes around 1-2 hp more throughout the power band. Not saying they are lying, but, how on earth is the temp going to be the same outside as where the cone is on a short ram, it is one of the hottest parts of the bay? Non the less it has been dyno proven that cai makes a bit more power due to air temp.

don't waste ur money on a short ram, yes its louder because the induction is closer to you. however; louder doesn't neccesarily equal power, and all ur getting in is hot air. there has been test where short ram intakes actually made less hp than the stock intakes, defeats the purpose of a performance mods wouldn't u think?

here's my integra with a short ram
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kicker1_solo/514.jpg
my accord with cold air
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kicker1_solo/accord3.jpg
As you can tell the cold air intake has piping that leads all the way down under the front bumper and that's where the filter sits, that way all the outside cool air hits it. Whereas the short ram has the filter sitting in the hot engine bay, sucking in all that hot air. The reason why cold air is better than hot is is because it's more dense which means that you can suck more of it into your engine, and the more air the better. So you will generally produce more power with a cold air intake, but in studies it has been proven that the cold air stops producing after like 7k or 7.5k (don't remember) RPM, and the short ram is a little more prevailing up after those high RPMs. I don't remember where I read that at but it was an actual AEM study that they used dynos and everything to test on. But overall the cold air intake (CAI) is more effecient compared to the short ram.


edit-sorry, I didn't read any replies until after I posted this. Sorry if I stepped over what someone already said, especially you scally with the dense air part. :)

sorry must of had you confused for someone else..

as far as the CAI vs. SRI have you guys ever felt your CAI after you get done running it gets pretty hot which defeats your whole it runs colder theory. if you get a direct rush of air directly where the filter sits yes thats better but if its still hidden in a fender not gonna make that big of a difference maybe a .25 to .5 hp woooo. if i where you i would get a cheap ebay intake with a good filter say k&n. mine is and have had no problems with it. oh and just to add i found this from a reputable person in which i respect their opinion.


i found that the underhood temps in the stock location are the same when you are moving, otherwise when at a stop it can rise 30-40F, then lowers back to ambient once you're moving again. so focus should still remain on intake diameter and length.

also remember CAI are more subject to evil puddles! if you live in a dry location go for an ebay CAI. if in a wet location get an ebay SRI. then get a good filter for both. now if you live in a CARB area get name brand just to get rid of the hassle.

oh boy, you believe that wretched water sucking rumor too?

ive seen it happen myself now i know it has to be a pretty deep puddle but it can happen. of course the one time i did see it happen the guy deserved it it was a big ass puddle he hit going really fast and actually spun the car around becuase he just hit it with the right front. if you drive smart then you dont have to worry about it but sometimes when it rains rather hard its difficult to see the bastard ass big ones.

the thing is that you have to have the whole filter submerged for it to actually suck in the water. I've had a CAI on my accord for a couple years and I've played in water before, we have floods here every year and I splash through every puddle I find cause it's just fun, it's really hard to hydrolock a motor. Possible, I'm not saying it isn't, but hard. :)

All this is thanks to www.Team-Integra.net

"Cliff Notes: the most important factor is not cold air. Instead, it's the diameter and length that determines powerband location...the worse thing you can do as a newb is choose one that's too small for your eventual peak power goal. Not much more to say than that..." Quoted from Michael Delaney on www.Team-integra.net...Not just another newb, he has LOTS of experience including time around the Realtime Racing crew.."Here's another "first" you may not have seen on the other boards: the temperature under the hood in an Integra when it is moving at speed versus the outside cold air: NO DIFFERENCE" another quote from Delaney just incase yall missed it while reading this thread .heres the link to the thread proving a CAI really doesnt help as much as everyone thinks:

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=7&TopicID=42533

You might have to become a member to read that, Please do and read the intire post, and then continue on reading every other artical and intense learning thread on that web site before post, its not a bunch of newbs its real information!!!

All this is thanks to www.Team-Integra.net

"Cliff Notes: the most important factor is not cold air. Instead, it's the diameter and length that determines powerband location...the worse thing you can do as a newb is choose one that's too small for your eventual peak power goal. Not much more to say than that..." Quoted from Michael Delaney on www.Team-integra.net...Not just another newb, he has LOTS of experience including time around the Realtime Racing crew.."Here's another "first" you may not have seen on the other boards: the temperature under the hood in an Integra when it is moving at speed versus the outside cold air: NO DIFFERENCE" another quote from Delaney just incase yall missed it while reading this thread .heres the link to the thread proving a CAI really doesnt help as much as everyone thinks:

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=7&TopicID=42533

You might have to become a member to read that, Please do and read the intire post, and then continue on reading every other artical and intense learning thread on that web site before post, its not a bunch of newbs its real information!!!


i beg to differ. i don't know who this micheal delaney is and i don't really care, but to believe in a theory that wasn't tested no matter how much experience that individual has is simply not credible. what im going to prove to you now is how this guy is wrong. i will be taking 3 important paragraphs from "honda/acura performance - sport compact car performance vol. 1" from the editors of sport compact car magazine who they also have a lot of experiences with cars. this will explain the intake theories, difference in ambient air throughout the test, and the difference in air temp during the test runs from the 3 intakes (stock, short ram, and cold air) in a 93 honda civic si.



"these two intakes represent two current theories on air intake systems that deal with filter placement. the r.s. akimoto intake system represents the shorter, underhood style of intakes. the system from aem positioned the air entry/filter assembly down in the fenderwell, where the air should be cooler. this placement also necessitated a much longer inlet tract length- something aem claims helps with torque prodution throughout the rpm powerband. we saw evidence of this in our previous test as well. both intakes had radiused inlets inside the filter and used k&n filter elements, though they were different shapes and configurations.---"



"while making the runs, we also took intake temperature measurements. the ambient temperature, according to our instrumentation, was 64 degrees during the series of tests. we were lucky enough that the ambient temperature never varied by more than two degrees between the first and last run, helping to eliminate heat as a possible variable for power.


our charge-air temperature probe was installed in each system prior to the back-to-back runs, and the results were pretty illuminating. since the r.s. akimoto system and stock air box both drew air from the engine compartment, it was not surprising the charge temps were within one degree of each other. the underhood mounted r.s. akimoto system did pretty well, as the inlet temperatures dropped down to just 24 degrees over ambient (or 88 degrees) once the car was up to speed. as far as air temp goes, the aem system was the clear winner, as the charge matched the ambient readings for the entire run. with a 64-degree ambient temperature, the aem system showed a 64-degree charge temperature."

a quick run down if anyone was some how lost, the aem had the same temp as the outside air of 64 degrees, whereas the short ram had a higher temp of 88 degress. the stock box was basically similar to the short ram.

also i just want to mention something, u don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the temp in the engine bay will be hotter than the ambient air because what is the first obstacle outside air goes through before entering the engine bay? the radiator.....

makes perfect sense to me tran_nsx ... how the hell is a SRI gonna pull in air the same temp as the CAI ?? even when the car is moving VERY fast , the engine bay still generates alot of heat right there where the SRI filter is sucking in at ... mean while the CAI is outside the car pretty much , so however the air is outside , thats how it will be sucked in from the CAI ... look at it like this , on a hot summer day just ride with your windows up and no ac going ... its gonna get hard to breathe pretty soon , now roll down your window and stick your head out and you will breath soooo much better , the same goes with the intakes .... :smile:

Obvisouly you didnt read any information on that link i gave you, or else you would have seen how knowlagble this Michael Delaney is, and you would have seen that these tests were done with multiple thermometors on the intake and hood of the vehicle while moving and stopped, they also have many dyno graphs to prove there point, so if you read what information that had been provided to you and not what a magazine said, which i bet they used a "butt dyno" and not a real dyno, you would see my point.

Obvisouly you didnt read any information on that link i gave you, or else you would have seen how knowlagble this Michael Delaney is, and you would have seen that these tests were done with multiple thermometors on the intake and hood of the vehicle while moving and stopped, they also have many dyno graphs to prove there point, so if you read what information that had been provided to you and not what a magazine said, which i bet they used a "butt dyno" and not a real dyno, you would see my point.

tell me something, why are they going to use a dyno to measure temp? u go ahead and believe that the air in the engine bay is the same as the outside air :rolleyes: im just trying to point out some common sense into ur head. another thing, what is the difference between a bunch of guys writing info on a magazine and a bunch of guys writing info on a forum? nothing. for your information this wasn't a magazine either, its a book showing test after test after test of mods and explainations of how each works from suspension to lighting to turbocharging to wheels. so like i said believe what u want to believe but i bet most will agree with me.

Obvisouly you didnt read any information on that link i gave you, or else you would have seen how knowlagble this Michael Delaney is, and you would have seen that these tests were done with multiple thermometors on the intake and hood of the vehicle while moving and stopped, they also have many dyno graphs to prove there point, so if you read what information that had been provided to you and not what a magazine said, which i bet they used a "butt dyno" and not a real dyno, you would see my point.

Just because someone who appears to know alot about what they are writing about, doe'snt make them always right. I mean even most of Einstines theories were wrong. The fact is, weather or not that test was accurate, those 2 intakes have been dyno tested, and the cai has been PROVEN time and time again to make more power than the shrot ram. And when you pop your hood to check your oil, is you dip stick not scolding hot? exactly! But say even if his test was accurate (which I don't believe is) how do you explain the fact that the cold air intake produces more power over the power band than the short ram. There has to be a reason. And aparently according to the helpful info posted by transNSX there is proof that it is hotter where the short ram is sucking, they too did tests, and got results.

And just so you know, this information wasnt just taking off some fourm, here are the BOOKS it was takin from:
Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems. Phillip Smith and John C Morrison. Robert Bentley Inc.

Design and Simulation of 4 Stroke Engines. Gordon P Blair. SAE International Inc.

a couple of you keep arguing that a CAI brings in much colder air and what not, well I tried to show yall proof of tests being done that showed that while moving there is no difference...I cut and pasted more stuff from www.Team-Integra.net so that the lazy wouldnt actually have to do research for themselves and find out that truth is not always in advertising, AKA with CAI....This info below is all im going to say, if you still argue that a CAI brings in colder air while moving, then you are more stubbourn than a brick wall.

From the web site showing dyno, realtime and thermostate testing:

"Now some of you CAI people may argue that a chassis dyno does not take advantage of the colder air, since the car is stationary and in a moving vehicle, cold air feeds the CAI. That test, comparing a CAI with a fan blowing air to the fenderwell to a short ram (with the same diameter and filter material), on the same car may show a difference, since the temperature differential may be greater than on a typical chassis dyno pull...or will it?

The temperature differential between the outside ambient temp. and engine bay temp. under the hood at the short ram intake opening has been measured while an Integra is travelling at speed. There is virtually no difference. We can expect the temp/ effect between short ram vs. CAI to be not as big as people think."

"For those on a budget and who intend to upgrade to big cams, big compression, and a big header, a 3 in. ID short ram with a homemade heatshield may be all you need. For people who want some midrange along with some upper rpm gains, the CAI ensures that butt dyno gets what it expects."

"Here's another "first" you may not have seen on the other boards: the temperature under the hood in an Integra when it is moving at speed versus the outside cold air: NO DIFFERENCE"

"Note that the thermometer lead is placed on the outside of the duct, so the temp it picks up is air that has already passed through the radiator. Starting at about 30-40 mph, the underhood temp is identical to ambient temp. "

"it's been MEASURED and PROVEN by neo...so don't cling too much to the colder air part of the argument."

"they did make an error in saying that all the short rams heat soaked after back to back pulls. We know from neouser's engine bay temp measurements when the car is moving that this isn't true. This is a dyno only phenomenon."

"yep sandblasting your engine internals because you have a fender well CAI and not cleaning/oiling the filter earlier can cause a whole bunch of grief...we've both been there, done that."

"Get a CAI if you want to feel the 'AEM Hump'. That's about it."

"Guys, it's just an intake. Stop fixating on it. Get one with the correct diameter tubing and move onto your next mod."

there u have it folks, one guy saying the engine bay is warm if not hot when the car is moving and another saying the heat vanishes into thin air like it never existed, the decision is up to u...

wow your a fuckin retard, i never said it vanished into thin air, its been provin in tests that the under hood intake temerature near the filter element of an intake IS THE SAME AS THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE!!! you dont actually thing your engine compartment is completly sealed and wont allow any air in at all do you??? my god thats why i dont post much in this place is because of fucking idiots like you that dont put any thought into the modifications of there car and just go by what they heard or what is cool at the time, read the information i showed you or shut the fuck up damn son....did your momma drop you on your head??

wow your a fuckin retard, i never said it vanished into thin air, its been provin in tests that the under hood intake temerature near the filter element of an intake IS THE SAME AS THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE!!! you dont actually thing your engine compartment is completly sealed and wont allow any air in at all do you??? my god thats why i dont post much in this place is because of fucking idiots like you that dont put any thought into the modifications of there car and just go by what they heard or what is cool at the time, read the information i showed you or shut the fuck up damn son....did your momma drop you on your head??

ok son calm down, watch ur language (there could be minors reading this), and atleast try to debate like an adult. i respected ur opinions even though i don't believe it and u should respect mines plain and simple. all we can do is put both our so call facts on the table and have others decide, using such vulgar language just makes u look even worse. so the under hood intake temp near the filter is the same as the outside temp. hmm, so where they put the filter element? outside? haha. j/k

Well i was cursing because im tired of arguing with people that have no clue and wont read information and TESTS proving my points, its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact, plain and simple

Well i was cursing because im tired of arguing with people that have no clue and wont read information and TESTS proving my points, its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact, plain and simple

Even still, cursing should not be used on these forums :nono: And your point has been taken, but it still doesn't explain why cold air intakes have been dyno proven to make more power than shrot ram intakes. And it seems pretty clear to me that that transNSX has also posted proven information straight from honda/acura perfomance book (which I also own and have read, thus I can verify) So you have a book that says one thing is a proven fact, and trans has a book that is proven and says another. THere isn't really anywhere we can go from here, so this argument is really over. Just one more thing, even if what you say is true, it has still been dyno proven that the cold air makes more power, thus if not from colder denser air, it does somehow make more power thus still is better!!!!! End of disscussion!

im tired of arguing too but u don't see me cursing. yes this is a matter of facts, facts from test to be specific, and so far we have two versions, so let the people decide. they probably already read both sides, let them come up with thier own conclusion, besides all ur doing now is just rambling about the same thing over and over again, i believe everyone who read understand what ur trying to say already so u don't have to go on, u don't see me explaining over and over. hint, it gets boring, kinda like beating something that already dead (hope thats a good analogy).

but uh , all in all SRI does NOT suck in air the same temp as outside ... not on a hot day , it is completely impossible for it to be true because of the filter locations ... SRI sucks in air from hot ass parts of the engine ... on a hot day , i would be willing to give my car away , and go buy me a pink pinto if you could prove that SRI sucks air the same temp as CAI ... its just not possible at all ...

ake a look at this http://performance.clubrsx.com/intaketest.html

Ive heard alot of people say different stuff and i dont know what to believe so i am asking you guys.....whats the differene between short ram air and cold air intake


Just like explained..cold air is denser so more power...i have heard that the diffrence is around 5000 rpms or so where the cold air makes a diffrence with the short ram.

heres some dynos from a ram air intake Vs. cold air intakes

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/1_intakes.shtml


as you will see the ram air intake make more power over the cold air intakes in almost all of the dyno but the comptech and k&n

comptech (RAI) 142.7 Vs. (CAI) 142.9

K&N (RAI) 139.3 Vs. (CAI) 142.9

It's helarious how big of an argument this is about something so innefective as an intake. Who cares? Honestly neither of the intakes (CAI or SRI) are going to show any substantial gains so it really doesn't matter which one you get.

It's helarious how big of an argument this is about something so innefective as an intake. Who cares? Honestly neither of the intakes (CAI or SRI) are going to show any substantial gains so it really doesn't matter which one you get.
stfu noob

heres some dynos from a ram air intake Vs. cold air intakes

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/1_intakes.shtml


as you will see the ram air intake make more power over the cold air intakes in almost all of the dyno but the comptech and k&n

comptech (RAI) 142.7 Vs. (CAI) 142.9

K&N (RAI) 139.3 Vs. (CAI) 142.9



u should read the fine print and not just the numbers alone; however, i thank you for posting it up as another source of info for others to see.


The Results (Unpublished)
Published results never tell the whole story. During the test, we found some very interesting trends. All of the short-ram type intakes suffered dramatically from heat soak when we ran the dynos back to back. What does this mean? In the real world of stoplight-to-stoplight confrontations, performance on cars equipped with a short ram intake may begin to drop off as underhood temperatures rise. With the cold air systems, the horsepower results were much closer (within a half of horsepower instead of one to three horsepower.)

they also pointed out that they let each dyno test run had a 7 min cool down break. what does this mean? it means the sri never had a chance to suck in all that nice hot air. although they had the hood closed which impressed me, the cars were test during a cool state. they didn't even measure temp either just to add to our previous arguement. to me these test was almost pointless, why don't they do a real world test where the engine has either been running, or atleast idling, :2cents: . still a source nonetheless

I think kicker implied something awhile back about PVE. At a certain point, air temperature is nearly nullified by sheer volume of air induced. The CAI produces great low-end response due to cooler air temp. I think this is why most people swear by them. They can feel better response within the most commonly used (lower) rpm range. At higher rpm, the SRI matches and slightly exceeds CAI gains before evening up again due to the fact it is simply able to induce a larger volume of air (physics/dynamics). So basically, each intake creates different peak-volumetric efficiency. You choose a CAI to peak at a lower rpm, or a SRI to peak at a higher rpm. Ironically, after a certain rpm (albeit a high rpm), both intakes are dead even as far as gains are concerned. They are both different, and both have their pros and cons...so why argue?

tran_nsx thanks ,trying to help when i can

i did read the fine print from what i understand they are saying is that the RAI would become hotter in stop and go which mean it would lose some of the hp gain but also if you look most of the RAI are making 2-4 more hp than the CAI so the 2-3 hp they would lose from becoming "heat soaked" would make them about the same

i also undestand that when doing dyno pulls your not getting the same amout of air that you would be if you where driving at say 60 mph so the CAI could make more power if you where driving and not sitting but then again so would the RAI becuase of the temp drop from air moving around in the engine bay i havnt done a test or seen one for my self that shows how much the temp in the engine bay would drop from driving at different mph but in the long run the small hp gain from the two is not going to be missed 2 hp is not going to give you a better e/t or make you beat the v8s

I've had both. Sold the AEM CAI and bought a cheap ass Ractive (3"-5"-3" tube SRI), and K&N filter.You can tell night and day the difference.The CAI was definetly better in lower rpm range, but I got better results higher up in the rpms wit the SRI.I like it better then the CAI. Also, it was $6 off ebay, lmao.

tran_nsx thanks ,trying to help when i can

i did read the fine print from what i understand they are saying is that the RAI would become hotter in stop and go which mean it would lose some of the hp gain but also if you look most of the RAI are making 2-4 more hp than the CAI so the 2-3 hp they would lose from becoming "heat soaked" would make them about the same



RAI are not freeing 2-4 hp more than CAI. They are close to even in the upper rpm's and the CAI frees more in the lower RPM's CAI also frees up more torque. I have never seen any dyno test showing a RAI freeing up 2-4 hp more than a CAI!

I've had both. Sold the AEM CAI and bought a cheap ass Ractive (3"-5"-3" tube SRI), and K&N filter.You can tell night and day the difference.The CAI was definetly better in lower rpm range, but I got better results higher up in the rpms wit the SRI.I like it better then the CAI. Also, it was $6 off ebay, lmao.

hold up. u can feel a difference in power by the addition of 2-4 horespower? yeah ok :screwy:. the only difference u can probabaly tell is from the sound and thats about it unless u compared it on a dyno. no more bull please, and yes i have own both a sri and a cai. the sri intake was louder due to the fact the intake charge at the induct is far closer to you giving the impression that its making more power at high rpms.

for everyone else who argues that this is pathetic to argue about 2-4 hp, i do see ur point. however, there is a bigger picture, 2-4 hp is pretty measely, but in addition to the other mods accumulated, hp can be quite different from stock, ahh hopefully higher i might add :lol:. yes thats right not all mods free up hp. example, after the engine is warm up, a sri can actually make less hp than the stock intake because of it taking in hot air. again, the last test were done when the engine is cold, which shouldn't even count at all.

RAI are not freeing 2-4 hp more than CAI. They are close to even in the upper rpm's and the CAI frees more in the lower RPM's CAI also frees up more torque. I have never seen any dyno test showing a RAI freeing up 2-4 hp more than a CAI!

im talking about the numbers here not lower rpms gains look at the link i added you will see what im talking about better yet i'll post the numbers so everyone can see
Name RAI CAI

AC Autotechnic 144.7 141.6
AEM 144.5 (V1)142 (V2)141.9
Comptech 142.7 142.9
DC 144.5 143.3
Injen 144.1 (1)140.7 (2)143.7
K&N 139.5 142.9
pro 1 (cotton) 143.4 141.9
pro 1 (foam) 142.7 NA
Weapon R 142.7 NA
Iceman NA

i underlined the winner in this test just so this is clear im not for the RAI or the CAI im just showing dyno number that where on this website

tran_nsx i see what your saying about the way this was tested the fact that the engines had time to cool down could make a differents
but still i say that the 1-3 hp you will lose with the RAI when it be comes "heat soaked" will still put it around the same hp that the CAI are making

also the reason i post that site was not to prove that the RAI makes more power just to show that the 2 hp gain isnt anything big and for people not to be worryed about the small gain in hp

I would like to see the site those numbers came from! Not nessisarily calling bull, but every dyno test I have seen has shown opposite. Is the car warm when these numbers were taken. Also higher peak power is not always better. Look at the power curve, and the torque curve. You have to see what kind of power they make throughout the whole power band.

here check this out, another comparison test between a cai and a sri to get a general idea of each's potential.
http://www.importreview.com/reviews/icemanVSshortRam.html

something alot of yall are missing, is most of the tests the anti SRI guys are posting up are using way to small of piping, while most CAI's tested are almost 2.85-3 inchs i diameter, the SRI they tests on that last web site was only 2.5 inchs, thats the main thing right there, not hot or cold air but the ID of the pipping used.... straight from that website:"The short ram is your typical 1.5 foot pipe that is about 2.5 inches with your K&N filter inside the engine bay."

scallywag i posted to website one page 2 but here i'll post the link againhttp://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/1_intakes.shtml

i know that peak power isnt what really matters it is just what we are talking about

something alot of yall are missing, is most of the tests the anti SRI guys are posting up are using way to small of piping, while most CAI's tested are almost 2.85-3 inchs i diameter, the SRI they tests on that last web site was only 2.5 inchs, thats the main thing right there, not hot or cold air but the ID of the pipping used.... straight from that website:"The short ram is your typical 1.5 foot pipe that is about 2.5 inches with your K&N filter inside the engine bay."


man :banghead:, i wrote a decently long and knowlegable post on why these intake specs are generally these specs, but the server was freaken too busy so my post never got through.

to make it really short, bigger isn't always better. example, compare a cai intake for an ls model and a cai from a gsr model of the same year. u will discover the ls will have a wider diameter. but shouldn't the gsr be the one with the wider piping to get more air so u can get more power u say. no, it doesn't work like that. too much air being swirled into the engine will actually hurt performance. why? because too much air coming in at a different consistency will not let the vtec mechanism work properly. this is the same reason people complain about turboing there gsr's. again go see for urself, i believe the diameter for aem's b18b1 models is 2 and 3/4 inches, and the b18c1 is 2 and 1/2 inch. of course u can create ur own intake as u please, but trying to out perform aem and the rest will be a difficult task. these companies are known for making the best intakes which is why other companies utilize these same specs for a reason. why screw it up?