P1811 Transmission hard shifting replaced PCS Twice

About 11 months ago I had hard shifting with the 2000 Intrigue.. Local Tranny shop diagnosed P1811 and replaced the pressure control solonoid. Then about 10,000 miles later problem occurred again. Transmission shop said they would either redo the solenoid or rebuild the transmission. I asked for a new solenoid.

Now today I'm having P1811 again. Clear it for a week and it comes back. Transmission is going into high pressure mode making driving very harsh.

PCS Solenoid shows operation at 60% duty cycle with approximately 1 volt signal. Shifting times are about 0.4-0.5 whenever I have a scan tool on it. What is reasonable shift times for the 4T65E?

I know there was a post on Shift Kits for the accumulators, but does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks

About 11 months ago I had hard shifting with the 2000 Intrigue.. Local Tranny shop diagnosed P1811 and replaced the pressure control solonoid. Then about 10,000 miles later problem occurred again. Transmission shop said they would either redo the solenoid or rebuild the transmission. I asked for a new solenoid.

Now today I'm having P1811 again. Clear it for a week and it comes back. Transmission is going into high pressure mode making driving very harsh.

PCS Solenoid shows operation at 60% duty cycle with approximately 1 volt signal. Shifting times are about 0.4-0.5 whenever I have a scan tool on it. What is reasonable shift times for the 4T65E?

I know there was a post on Shift Kits for the accumulators, but does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks

In case you haven't seen the Triple Edge Performance website (but I bet you have), here you go:

"Code P1811 is hands down the most common trouble code and commonly asked about problem. This code can set for numorous reasons and often by a failing pressure control, BUT on higher mileage transmissions this is often not the case or at least is not the only cause to the problem. With that said it is important to understand that replacing the pressure control solenoid is NOT a guaranteed fix!

This code will set when the pcm/tcm detects excessively long shift times. For every shift the pcm/tcm watches how long the shift takes to complete in milliseconds. If the shift times are over roughly the .06 second timeframe and the pcm/tcm tries to compensate for this by raising line pressure and still does not see acceptable shift times after a few shift cycle it will trigger code P1811. When this happens it puts the transmission in a max line pressure condition to help protect the transmission against excessive slippage and burnt clutches. While this condition is present you will feel harsh shifts, some vehicles more agressive than others, and you will also hear a whine noise similar to what a power steering pump that is low on fluid will sound like. You can shut the engine off for a brief moment and restart the vehicle and it will feel normal again until a few shift cycles of excessive shift times and the cycle will repeat itself. This typically only happens after you have driven for a short while and the transmission and its fluid warms up.

Some common causes to this problem are-

-Poor working PCS (Pressure Control Solenoid), also called EPC or Force Motor
-Excessive clutch clearances
-Poor functioning accumulator system
-Worn internal seals and sealing rings
-Excessive valve body wear
-Dirty MAF sensor resulting in lower commanded line pressure


Due to the list of potential problems it is difficult to suggest just one or two items to cure code P1811 as everything above and many other parts and variables all play a role in the effect. Unfortunately because of the orientation of this transmission and how it sits in a vehicle it requires quite a bit of labor to access the pressure control solenoid as well as the valve body. One thing popular to try before diving into an expensive and labor enduring repair is to install a shift improver kit such as the Transgo SK4T65E shift kit that we offer. This kit includes a new set of accumulator springs and spacers to limit accumulator piston travel which greatly speeds up the time it takes to apply a clutch, which hand in hand will shorten the shift time. These kits are not made to create firm or harsh feeling shifts but to help speed up shift timing and keep what the pcm/tcm wants to see in check to prevent code P1811 from triggering. As mentioned above higher mileage plays a big role in how this transmission works and also means you should replace parts with caution and have the understanding that there is no 100% guaranteed fix to this problem without tearing into the entire transmission to address and upgrade the problem areas."

Sounds like a different transmission may be in order. There are bunches of folks who have installed these kinds of kits and posted pictures, and one of a step-by-step rebuild.

Hope you find a not-too-expensive solution. I would go with used if the shift kit does not work out.

Yes --I've seen their website. And the shift times I mention above are milliseconds so it's not taking 10 times longer to shift than expected.

Well this may be the death of the car. Any tech's in the Twin Cities or suggestions on reasonable cost shops would be appreciated.

I hate to see it go, but I don't think I can tackle a transmission removal by myself.

the best and cheapest thing to do is call GM and complain. Their number is 1-800-222-1020. These transmissions are known to be defective but have yet to be recalled. I called today 6-21-2010.

the best and cheapest thing to do is call GM and complain. Their number is 1-800-222-1020. These transmissions are known to be defective but have yet to be recalled. I called today 6-21-2010.

What? No way is GM going to recall the 4t65e. Its the workhorse tranny in most GM fwd cars and vans. Calling Government Motors isn't going to do anything but piss you off even more.

The OP didn't state how many miles are on the car (unless I missed it), but I'll bet he's got his use out of the transmission. Its all how its driven and maintained. Any tranny with over 100k is running on borrowed time. Clutches and Bands wear. Its just the way it is. Same principle of clutches in manual trannys. They wear out, you replace them.

If I was the OP, I'd do a pan drop, change the fluid, and filter, and add a shift kit. The PCS might be doing exactly what its supposed to be doing as commanded by the PCM. Plus a shift kit from ZZP is a cheap possible fix.

See this write-up regarding p1181 and installing a shift kit.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=920671

BTW, 150k on the original 3800 motor and original 4t65e trans in my GTP and it shifts as good as the day it rolled off the assemly line. Hows that for a trans thats 'known to be defective'?

I have 70k on mine, and yes I do PM me vehicles as they should be, but many people are having problems while the vehicle is still under warranty which is 36k. The vehicles with the most cmmon problems are the Impalas, which I have, I do not know how common it is for any others. The problem only occurs when it is hot outside and the car is driven about 30 minutes. In the winter time it is fine no matter how long i drive it. With this being said, the reason you might have a lot of miles without any problem is because you may not live in a place where it is 100 degrees the majority of the year. And if it is not a "common problem" why are so many people having problems with them? Why do they make shift kits and different PCS that claim they eliminate the defects with this tranny? If it was no problem, then there would be no need for a solution. Why don't you do a little more research before you post next time. I got rid of my 95 mustang with over 100k on it to get this newer 4 door vehicle to eliminate any problems i may have. So much for that. If it was not a problem, why am I getting so many hits on the tags impala P1811, hard shift when hot? I guess you are also going to say that the intake manifold gaskets on the impalas to 03 were also not a common defect, since yours is ok. GM finally is taking care of the intake manifold gaskets, what makes you think they are not going to take care of this if too many people are involved. I have had over 100 hits in about 24 hrs just on the 2 threads I posted on this site. So atleast 100 people within the last day were concerned with this problem enough to look it up on this website. Atleast you got 100k out of yours. I have spoke to the GM customer service and you will get a "goodwill warranty" if they find the part "defective" or if you complain a lot. From some forums I gather that when hot, the bores id expands more than the PCS od which creates a gap which cause the fault. Some people recommend a separate tranny cooler and says it works. Maybe I should have got a kia with a 10 yr 100k mile warranty. Search impala hard shift when hot, p1811 and see how many people are viewing these sites. There are some sites that have over 300k views, you can figure that the majority of the people have the problem which went to the site. Sorry I was not clear it is common with the impalas, i dont know if they have a variation in parts in the tranny depending on the vehicle or manufacturing plant.

I have 70k on mine, and yes I do PM me vehicles as they should be, but many people are having problems while the vehicle is still under warranty which is 36k. The vehicles with the most cmmon problems are the Impalas, which I have, I do not know how common it is for any others. The problem only occurs when it is hot outside and the car is driven about 30 minutes. In the winter time it is fine no matter how long i drive it. With this being said, the reason you might have a lot of miles without any problem is because you may not live in a place where it is 100 degrees the majority of the year. And if it is not a "common problem" why are so many people having problems with them? Why do they make shift kits and different PCS that claim they eliminate the defects with this tranny? If it was no problem, then there would be no need for a solution. Why don't you do a little more research before you post next time. I got rid of my 95 mustang with over 100k on it to get this newer 4 door vehicle to eliminate any problems i may have. So much for that. If it was not a problem, why am I getting so many hits on the tags impala P1811, hard shift when hot? I guess you are also going to say that the intake manifold gaskets on the impalas to 03 were also not a common defect, since yours is ok. GM finally is taking care of the intake manifold gaskets, what makes you think they are not going to take care of this if too many people are involved. I have had over 100 hits in about 24 hrs just on the 2 threads I posted on this site. So atleast 100 people within the last day were concerned with this problem enough to look it up on this website. Atleast you got 100k out of yours. I have spoke to the GM customer service and you will get a "goodwill warranty" if they find the part "defective" or if you complain a lot. From some forums I gather that when hot, the bores id expands more than the PCS od which creates a gap which cause the fault. Some people recommend a separate tranny cooler and says it works. Maybe I should have got a kia with a 10 yr 100k mile warranty. Search impala hard shift when hot, p1811 and see how many people are viewing these sites. There are some sites that have over 300k views, you can figure that the majority of the people have the problem which went to the site. Sorry I was not clear it is common with the impalas, i dont know if they have a variation in parts in the tranny depending on the vehicle or manufacturing plant.

First Off, relax, I dont jump on forums to BS people around telling them to call GM to complain about a bad transmission. I just suggest fixes for members problems rather then telling them to do something that is obviously not going to fix anything. I realize installing a shift kit may not cure your problem, or anyone elses for that matter, but its cheap enough to try and if you read the OP's first post you will see that he had the PCS replaced already and is still having issues. So obviously his problem lies elsewhere.

Next, you got rid of a mustang for an impala to cure problems? I will agree with you that mustangs are total junk, but now your impala Blew a Lower intake gasket and has a p1181 and hard shifts? Damn, now who didn't do research before they bought something?

Don't tell me to do research, you obvoiusly have no idea who your talking to. Chevymandan, haha, I forgot more about chevy motors than you'll ever know. Maybe if you would have done some research on that gimpala before you bought it, at your first trans fluid change, you would have installed a mild shift kit to possibly keep the p1181 from happening.

BTW, the ZZP and transgo shift kits were not created as a cure to the P1181 and hard shifts, they were created for people who wanted firmer shifts, then someone realized that installing them, made the shifts happen quicker, thus keeping the P1181 from tripping, PCM didn't command high line pressure, and the shifts remained smooth. This 'band aid' sort of speak fix has a proven track record where the harsh shifts and P1181 DTC is set in cases where the shifts are in fact happening over .060 seconds. If the PCS is in fact faulty, this will do nothing to fix your problem. Either way, a 20.00 shift kit, some new fluid, filter, and gasket arent going to break the bank and are woprth trying before taking your car in for a spendy PCS replacement job. Now Who didn't do their research before opening their big mouth? :eek7:

Your next off topic tangent, GM Lower intake gaskets, have always been issues, and will always be issues. I've changed a ton, too many to count. The issue with GM LIM gaskets is faulty OEM design, and the one in my car has already been changed (by me) for your info. I didn't call GM and complain expecting them to come fix my car. I just bought the updated gasket design, and changed them out. Its been fine since. Funny how that works isn't it. You notice a coolant leak, diagnose where its coming from, spend 100.00 bucks and a few hours of your time, and fix the problem yourself without complaining to someone on the phone who is probably not going to do any more than call you an idiot as soon as they hang up the phone. There is no way GM (government owns, AKA taxpayers) can afford to recall millions of cars for Lower intake gasket leaks, or trans PSC for that matter. It just isn't going to happen with this economy at this point in time. :shakehead

Speaking of, why dont you help the economy, and go trade in your impala for a kia with a 10yr 100,000 mile warrenty. Then the kia dealer can pull the sidepan off your trans, replace the PCS, add a shift kit, and sell you car for a HUGE profit for just about 100.00 bucks in parts and an afternoon of work. Bet they don't call GM to complain about that one.

Yea you were right. GM just took my money and pissed me off. I bought this car 4 months ago from the dealer and put on about 4k miles so that is why I was pissed. When I first bought it I noticed it went into gear without the brakes or key in. Then the key got stuck in it one day. Another common problem, but easy fix. There is a cable that runs under the steering column from the ignition that has an adjustment on it. Once the adjustment was right it works fine. I see people getting their vehicles towed and spending a lot of money that have had these similar symptoms. I did all the PM on it right when I got it, just like all the other vehicles (all American Made) I got. I guess I will be installing a shift kit. Which one seems to be better? My problem is only when the vehicle is hot. Will this solve the problem? I read an article that the aux trans cooler is not necessary on these vehicles. Whats your opinion on that?

Don't let shift timing in milliseconds throw you off.

1000 milliseconds = 1 second

:lol:

Installed accumulator springs from transgo sk4t65e and it works great. cost about 65 plus fluid and filter and takes just over an hour. would try this first if you have the same problem

I was dreading changing the pcs, but it was easier than i thought. I am not a mechanic and I am not suggesting that you do this, this is what I did and it worked fine and saved a bunch of money and was easy to do. Anything you decide to do is your choice and I am not liable for it
1. disconnect battery and drain transmission fluid, put transmission pan back on with a few bolts, you can change the filter when you are done with everything else and put all the bolts back in
2. take off air filter housing and air intake, take electrical plug out of transmission
3. raise boot on steering gear box and take bolt out of steering connecting to steering shaft, it is one bolt and has to come completely out and then slide the shaft up off of it (this is done so you do not damage the steering when you lower the cradle)
4. loosen axle nut and lug nuts so you can get them off when you raise the vehicle.
5. raise vehicle,and support it,take off the following only on drivers side: wheel, brake caliper (hang out of way), lower ball joint off of lower A arm, tie rod end, sway bar
6. now you can take out the 3 strut nuts from up top and tap on the axle nut very lightly, then take the axle nut off to get it out of the front hub assembly,
7. push down on the lower A arm, and pull the strut out (i left the strut, rotor, front hub assembly as one when i took it out), also take out engine splash shield which has 3 plastic rivets in it, then pull out axle, i used a slide hammer
8. I had 3 different areas of support , the body, the transmission, and the front drivers side cradle
9. I placed a piece of plywood on the jack and used it to support the transmission, be careful not to raise it to high and crack your coolant reservoir
10. I placed another jack on the cradle
11. I used jack stands to support the body
12. I took out the tranny mount nuts that bolt it to the cradle.
13. With the tranny supported, as well as the Cradle, I loosened the 2 drivers side cradle bolts and took them completely out. Lower the cradle down. This allows you to get to the bottom bolts of the side cover. Then lower the transmission down to get the rest of the bolts out.
14. Pull off side cover and replace solenoids. Disconnect wire harness, they have a pin that you must pull out with needle nose pliers, pull out solenoid
15. Reverse procedure to assemble
16. got alignment

This job took about 5 hours, because it was my first time doing it, but it is real easy
I bought a solenoid kit off ebay for $108, fluid and filter for about $60, I used about 10 qts

every car is different so use common sense when you are working on it, you have no one to blame but yourself if you screw up, good luck

Just to add to this, the condition of the fluid has to be taken into consideration......have seen the PCS just put in with no regard to the fluid...if it is dark and has a burnt smell, just replacing the solenoid is not going to hack it.....

One other thing...had a guy replace the solenoid, and light came right back on....he forgot to reset the "taps" in the PCM.....you need to do this, whenever components are changed in a transmission.....

Easy solution.....Just Throw in a SK 4T65E Transgo Shift Kit into your Accumulator located when you drop your tranny pan VS removing half your car and Transmission to fix something that might reoccur This shift Kit prevents your transmission from "LONG SHIFTS" Thus preventing P1801 codes from appearing. Change the filter and add ! litre of Lucas non slip along with 4.25 litres of Dex 3 not Dex 6! Dex 6 will eat seals being synthetic. As far as I am concerned this is the best solution!! ( ; :cool:.