My heater fan quit working - 20 °F !!!

You might expect this sort of thing....worst possible time for it...

1993 Geo Metro 3 cyl, 2 door hatchback manual transmission.

My heater FAN stopped running. Fuse (front right side of fuse box) is fine.

So now what !?

How does one get the heater fan out or at least check function?

Snow a foot deep and all wet.

DoctorBill

PS - I want to start a new thread titled: "Why is it that...." where we can
express our dismay when really goofy stuff happens - like

Why does the bird crap always land on the driver's side windshield in the area
you need to see out of?

Why does the tailgater who you make pass you always slow down slower than
you were going in the first place?

Why does the driver's side lock always freeze up.

Fun stuff like that.

turn the ignition on and turn the fan to high. open passenger door and locate heater fan. with everything on thump on the bottom of fan with a big wrench or hammer. if fan runs for a bit after that fan brushes are worn out and you need to replace it. if it still doesn't run while you are thumping on it you may have a bad fan switch. you can also take the wires off the fan (they unplug) and test them for 12v. the thumping seems to work best to test for a worn one though

The switches are notorius for failing.

Q

Crvett69 - are the brushes replaceable - easily purchasable ?

I hate to think about slogging thru the local Pull-n-Save in this wet snow / muck weather
(25°F) trying to pull a heater fan out of a Metro Body.

If Schuck's or NAPA even has them, bet they cost a left (no! right) testicle.

Hugemoth - Yup....aren't all car switches the same?! Probably a bastard
to get it out!

OK - Tomorrow its out to the driveway and get my knees wet in slush and my
neck sore stooping into my Metro's passenger side trying to take the Fan Motor
out....

I'll try 12v on the Fan Motor's connectors first.

If the Fan is dead, out it comes....Brushes (?) ....hope someone sells them.
Cannot drive w/o a heater fan to defrost the Windshield!
That would give me the opportunity to lubricate the Fan's Bearings!!!!!

Chilton says I have to remove the Glove Compartment! HOW?

If the Fan is OK - then I've purchased an in-line lamp switch and some lamp
cord and I'll direct hook it up to the battery for the rest of the Winter and run it Full Speed.
When it gets too hot, I'll click the line switch off until I need more heat.

Temporary fix, but I'll be damned if I will try to fart around under the dash in winter.....

This almost, but not quite! gives me enough impetus to clean out my garage!

DoctorBill

motor is crimped together. if brushes are bad armature probably is worn too. just buy a new fan from schucks or other auto supply store.think heaterbox has to come out to replace fan but its not that hardsome screws and 10mm nuts

It's almost always the switch, they just fall apart. Usually you can squeeze it back together and wrap a zip tie around it for a permanent fix.

For the past three days, it has snowed about 7 inches, melting and refreezing on
the streets each night making "Cobblestone Lumps" on the road.

That has rattled the crap out of my Metro to where my teeth jiggled!

So I suppose that the heavy vibration loosened up something - probably the switch.

Can anyone clue me into how to get at the Heater Fan Switch to fix it?

Where do I start? The Chilton Manual has nothing on getting at the Fan Switch...

(That is - assuming it is the switch...)

DoctorBill

have you tried thumping on the motor while ignition and fan switch are on yet? you don't need to take anything off to thump on it, its hanging down above where pass feet would be

Yes...I tried banging the Fan Housing with the key and switch on - while I was
changing my Oil in the snow and puddles.

No go. So it is probably the switch as Woodie83 says......

I tried to remove the wire by pulling on the wire plug, but won't come off.
Tried squeezing it on all sides - cannot get up in there to see the bugger!

After Catarracts taken out, I have a bugger-all time seeing close up in dim light!

If anyone knows how to get that darn plug out of the Heater Fan Motor, I and
probably others, would appreciate the secret.

I have had problems with Geo Metro wire plugs everywhere - they often have
little "push-ins" that lock them in the socket - but don't often release when pressed!

Probably dirt under the prong.

Anyway - after I get warmed up and dried off, I will try again. Once disconnected,
I can check for voltage on the input side and resistance on the Fan side.

How do I get the Heater Fan Switch out if it is bad - by taking the entire Dashboard
out over the Fan and Heater controls...!

I don't even know where to start on that score. Any hints..?

DoctorBill

Spent the entire afternoon in the driveway working on the Heater Fan problem
after I changed the oil and filter at 5,000 miles.

I took the Face Plate off of the Heater Controls. Had to pull my Jensen CD/Radio
player out and remove the two screws under the plate and lift it out and up and
off.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3104/heaterfrontcoverplatejg3.jpg

Then I took a couple of screws holding the plastic switch(es) rack out and
moved the switch rack around to get at the Heater Fan Switch (HFS).

I pulled the HFS plug off and in doing so the top of the switch came off with the plug.

The HFS "top" is held in place by 4 simple lugs that slip into slots on the side
of the switch ! Comes off like lifting a paper match cover.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4927/heaterfanswitchlever1fz9.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4975/heaterfanswitchlever2nk3.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6720/heaterfanswitchlever2bww5.jpg

The Top of the HFS has some metal tracks which were dirty. I cleaned the old
hard grease off, scratched the surfaces clean with a pocket knife and regreased it.

Looks like this...

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3643/heaterfanswitchtop1sf8.jpg

After scratching the surface of the rotating contact on the HFS lever, I reassembled the switch by
pressing it back on and sliding the plug back into it.

I will try wrapping it together with a 'wire tie' thru the side holes to keep it
together better.

Tried the Fan - didn't run.

On top of the Fan Housing is a 4-wire plug which I removed from it's socket.
The socket is the Resistor Assembly !
I then unscrewed the one screw holding the socket (the Heater's Speed
Resistors are on the underside of the socket) in the Fan Housing and looked at them.

The screw is difficult to get at.
You need a really, really short screwdriver or a ratcheted, angled phillips head screwdriver.

The "Resistor Pack" lifts right out. It is quite fragile!

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8289/heaterresistorunitvh2.jpg

I really doubt one could "repair" this...

Here is the back side

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8412/heaterresistorunitlugssz6.jpg

The resistors get hot and are hanging down inside the Fan Housing where they
get air blown on them constantly - to keep them cool.

I decided to try applying 12 volts directly to the Fan Motor thru the Black and
Red wires going into the motor.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1698/fanmotorrx4.jpg

I cut the wires and applied 12 volts to them from my battery Charger.

NOTHING.... I wiggled the plug - the Fan made a few turns with a funny clicking sound
then dead meat - won't respond any more.

No resistance - open circuit. I guess the brushes are shot.....

Long story short - check the Fan Motor first...! That is easiest.

Removing the Fan Motor Housing looks daunting. Seems 1/3 embedded into
the kickplate where passengers feet touch.
Chilton says three bolts hold it on, you have to take the vent cables off, etc.
One of the bolts is way back by the floorboard.

Damn.... have to see if I can get a new Heater Fan Motor somewhere.

Later.....looked up Schuck's Web Page...Here is a "Factory Fan Motor" for $29.
They have several more - all for $100 ! Click the Thumbnail Image

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5693/schucksblowermotorqp7.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=schucksblowermotorqp7.jpg)

The NAPA "Blower Motor" costs $52 ===> Item#: BK 6551665 WEB SITE ITEM

DoctorBill

PS - Here are the schematics from Chilton....
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/65/heaterschematicskx2.jpg

you didn't thump the motor itself hard enough, will usually turn some but sometime it takes a good thump to get it going, don't hit the platic housing, hit the metal part of motor that hangs down. to remove the fan you have to removes that end of the housing but the dash does not have to come out. you have to remove glove box pocket and using a 10mm socket and wrench remove some nuts to get that end of housing out. using a flashlight and standing on head you should be able to find them, one if hidden under carpet so pull it back too. if you need me to i can take a pic of a housing i already have out so you can see where nuts are

When I put 12 volts to the Blower Motor, I rapped the motor housing fairly well
with a pipe wrench.

Resulted in a few turns then it stopped....bashing it to get it going (?)

Yes - if you can show what the housing looks like, I would appreciate it.

I will order a new Blower Motor tomorrow from Schucks.

I hope they don't take too long getting one in.

DoctorBill

comercial web site shows one in network so its at the warehouse so shouldn't take more than a day to get it

Yup...one day to arrive from Seattle Warehouse to Spokane plus I have to zip
into town early to pre-pay for it.

Not bad considering that I feel myself lucky to even be able to buy a NEW
Heater Blower Motor for a '93 Geo Metro!

I thought I'd have to take some used one apart and fix it (or use it used).

What is bad is that I have to drive around right now with both sides windows open
to keep the windows from fogging up inside.

If it snows, I'll have to stop often and spray de-icer on the outside....

One does not realize that w/o a heater fan in winter, one is in deep sh*t...

DoctorBill

Got the motor from Schucks - quite nice - welded shut - can't mess with Brushes.

Took out Glove Box by unscrewing 3 screws - two on top - one in back.

Three (10 mm) bolts hold the Fan housing in place.
Bottom one (left) requires universal on a ratchet nut driver.
Upper two also helped by universal on ratchet.

Here is a photo that Crvett69 was kind enough to take on a stripped out parts
car he has. The dash has been removed - you can't normally see this.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8100/strippedviewbz5.jpg

After removing those 3 bolts and unhooking the cable going to the valve lever,
(held by a pressure clip), the Fan Housing comes right out.

Here is the Fan Housing with the old Fan Motor in place and the new one below it.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1433/blowerhousing01rg9.jpg

There is a rubber tube going from the motor to the Housing to supposedly blow
or suck particles away from the motor's brushes and comutator. One end has
been disconnected in the picture.

Three bolts hold the motor assembly in the housing.
The old motor had a thick foam gasket which would not come off - glued on.

I removed and washed the Blower FAN (Plastic) and put it on the new motor.
It is held on with a nut which came new with the motor.

I ran a bead of Bathroom Caulking around the motor seal and screwed the motor
to the housing. I had to place homemade rubber innertube washers as spacers
between the bolts and the housing or it would have rattled.

I took the two screws out of the old motor's end and exposed the brushes and comutator of the old motor.
Several tablespoonfuls of carbon and black flakes fell to the floor!

Here is a bad photo of the end cap brush holders and end bearing. One of the
brushes was completely gone and the other had about 1/4 inch left.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7283/fanmotorbrushescapaw0.jpg

The comutator on the motor shaft was badly scored and carbon coated
every part of the inside of the motor.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8319/scoredcomutatorsq5.jpg

I placed the Fan Motor Resistor back in it's hole/slot and set the whole thing aside
to place back in the Metro tomorrow morning.

Here is a photo from Crvett69 showing another view of the Fan Housing.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4391/fanhousingcrvett69lj3.jpg

All in all, it was quite simple to do - if you remove the Glove Box beforehand!

If you don't do that, you would need to be a contortionist to get at the two
upper bolts.

I want to oil the cables that go out from the switch somehow before I get it
all back together.

I paid $30 for a Schuck's OEM Blower Motor (Schuck's had several for $100
and NAPA wanted $52). See earlier posts for Schuck's Fan Motor.

I would suppose a shop would have charged me $250 to $300 to fix this...
They would have probably charged $100 for a $30 motor and $150 to $200 labor.

I want to extend my gratitude to Crvett69 for his help in educating me on how
to remove the Heater Fan Unit and for Photographs of the unit which he PM'd
to me the last few days. A gentleman and a Scholar to be sure!

DoctorBill

Well, I guess I should consider adding a heater blower to my list of things to "refurbish" on my Metro. The thought of losing my heater during the winter really sucks. Corvett69 did a great job in educating us on what to do, like Bill says. The photos are especially helpful. The best of luck to DoctorBill on getting the heater replaced.:smokin:

Yes - by all means - fix the damned Blower Motor during nice weather.

I can tell you that it really sucks to have to get under the dash when the temp
is 20 °F and the wind is blowing.

Add to that - while waiting for the Blower Fan Motor to arrive at the parts store,
you have to drive around with the windows open to stop fogging on the inside.

Yup....make hay while the sun shines.....!

DoctorBill

Well...it is finished - so am I ! Had do do this while it snowed....couldn't take pictures.

I put the Blower Housing back into the Metro. Not very difficult, just most clumsy
to get ones hands back there for both of the right hand bolts.

Of course you have to use just one hand - no way to get both back there.

Remember to re-attach the cable link to the Fan Housing before bolting it in....
don't be like me and forget - having to take it back out to attach the cable...!

I tested it then - works like new! Nice to have heat again.....

The Glove Box was put back in - three screws.

I re-assembled the slide switch unit to the frame (two screws) and tried to re-attach the cover.

After a while I realized that the Slide Switch Cover goes outside of the plastic grill
that covers the middle vents. The grill uses two screws at the bottom.
The cover has one light bulb in the middle and the A/C switch on the right.
My grill cover cracked - old and cold. Back to the local Pull-n-Save this spring.

I found out that my Ash Tray does have a light! Someone had left the one
screw that holds it in place out and so it was laying on top of the Ash Tray
behind the hole the light shines thru... I fixed it.

Summary - Check the fuse then test the Fan Motor FIRST !

Use some 12 volt source to see if the Fan Blower Motor is OK before messing with
your Fan Speed Switch.
You can disconnect the two wires to do that test - maybe Continuity would find
if the Fan Blower Motor is bad (Open Circuit).

If the Fan is OK, then approach the sliding switch...

Bye.

DoctorBill