Further Lowering The Car with Shocks

Hey guys, I have a 99 G20 lowered Eibach Springs. I have cut about half a coil off the springs now they are about 12mm lower than the standard Eibach Springs. However I am still wanting to go lower. The ride is sitting on 215/40/17s and I have already got a camber kit installed with front camber set at -1.8. I am willing to lower it anthoer 20-30 mms so the guards are just sitting on the rims. I have heard that most koni shocks are height adjustable, however the ones for the p11 are not. Do you guys know if there are any other makes that could do the job? I want to keep my Eibach springs and my camber kit. :)

Originally posted by pche059
I have already got a camber kit installed with front camber set at -1.8.

Where did you get a camber kit for the P11? I am unaware of any way to adjust camber on our cars.

Originally posted by pche059
I have heard that most koni shocks are height adjustable, however the ones for the p11 are not. Do you guys know if there are any other makes that could do the job? I want to keep my Eibach springs and my camber kit. :)

No, Konis are not ride height adjustable. The only solution for adjustable right height for our cars is coilovers.

get some JIC's and go as low as you want! :D

teins drop it pretty low too, low enough for my tastes, at least.

why dont you try gc?

P10DET: Yea, but I am in New Zealand. I got hold of my camber kit through the official NZ Nissan Performance centre. They are also the people who built and race the NZ Primera Touring car. That camber makes an incredible change handling wise. Front -1.8 rear -1.0 gives it a characteristic of slight oversteering.

Koni or GAB? Are they the same length as the stock shocks? Could they handle springs that are 60mms lower than standard?

Originally posted by pche059
P10DET: Yea, but I am in New Zealand. I got hold of my camber kit through the official NZ Nissan Performance centre. They are also the people who built and race the NZ Primera Touring car. That camber makes an incredible change handling wise. Front -1.8 rear -1.0 gives it a characteristic of slight oversteering.

BLOODY HELL! You don't say. Do they have a web site or e-mail address? How much was the kit? P10 or P11?

Originally posted by pche059
Koni or GAB? Are they the same length as the stock shocks? Could they handle springs that are 60mms lower than standard?

My choice would be Konis. I think Japanese dampers have too much bounce damping and too little rebound damping. The extra bounce gives it more harshness and too little rebound gives it a jiggly feeling. Konis seem to be much better valved.

As for which would handle that much lowering, I think they would be about the same. What would be best is a shortened body damper that would give you some suspension travel back. You want to stay off the snubbers. If not your ride will be harsh and your handling could be dangerous.

I would get a coilover conversion if you want to run that low. Coilover conversions will allow you to run Eibach ERS race springs. This in turn will offer you a very wide range of spring rates and much higher rates as well.

I'm running KYB AGX (for all intents and purposes the same as GABs) with 275 lb fronts and 200 lb rears. I was running 340/275.

Kenchan
JICs and GC?
never heard of them b4...brands available in New Zealand are rather limited :( Heard that the teins NA aren't really the best for damping?
Hey know much about the JWT cams? they seem to give a rather impressive increase in high end power. What kind of pricing do they go for?

P10DET: I will get their homepage address for you as soon as i get home :) Hey what do you think of modifying (shortening) the shocks and bumstops in order to prevent it from buttoming out?
BTW they offer a whole range of camber kits and other mod for Nissan vehicles.

Originally posted by pche059
Hey know much about the JWT cams? they seem to give a rather impressive increase in high end power. What kind of pricing do they go for?

They do indeed put down good numbers.

They run around $550 US. They also have their C series cams that put down even more impressive numbers, but they have a lumpier idle and give up low end to gain at the high end. They require replacing the valve springs with their own proprietary design springs (very different from most aftermarket springs) and ti retainers. They run around $1,200 US for the set IIRC.

Originally posted by pche059
P10DET: I will get their homepage address for you as soon as i get home :) Hey what do you think of modifying (shortening) the shocks and bumstops in order to prevent it from buttoming out?
BTW they offer a whole range of camber kits and other mod for Nissan vehicles.

Outstanding! :D

I have lots of choices for camber correction for my Sentra SE-R (B13 with the SR20DE - a great car), but in The States there are no correction kits for the front of the P10 or P11.

If you have someone who can shorten the dampers, that is the ideal solution. Truechoice/Koni progressive bumpstops are really outstanding. Truechoice is a US company now owned by a fellow Kiwi BTW. But anyway, if you can shorten the dampers, that is critical for serious lowering like you are looking to do.

Cutting dampers and springs... Would this worsen the handling? Or even shorten the life of them? Hey what kind of figures are the SR20DEs outputing in the States? anything over 180hp at flywheel ? I have always wanted to take some VTECs out as I used to own one too.
:p

Originally posted by P10DET


BLOODY HELL! You don't say. Do they have a web site or e-mail address? How much was the kit? P10 or P11?Geo, here's another NZ company (besides the company that pche059 mentions) which specializes in performance Nissans. http://www.prestigeautomotive.co.nz
They advertise a camber kit for the P10 as well with prices in NZ$ - $390NZ or $156US for the camber kit. Enter the site, click on "road performance", scroll down and pick your vehicle. Have a good look around the site coz there's a lot there. I'd say the exchange rate US to NZ $ will make his prices competitive. The owner is Peter Van Brugel - he races nissan touring cars (including P10) and is very competitive here. Happy hunting:)

Hehe That is the company that I am talking about :)
:p :p :p :p :p

Originally posted by pche059
Hehe That is the company that I am talking about :)
:p :p :p :p :p
:o Oops, sorry 'bout that, I was hoping you were going to show me another one. By the way, welcome to the forum, more and more Kiwis turning up here nowadays, maybe sometime in future we can all get together for meets, group discounts etc.

hehe dude
that sounds real great
I am actually a NiZan member ..if you have heard of them before..
however..i still think we need a Primera club in NZ.
Hey is yours a p11? or a p10?
mine is a 99 96kw version...
I have got my airbox done by peter already..got a Super AFC installed too...but it is still...seriously under power especially around the high rev area... no torque come through after 5600 rpm?
We should ask Peter to import the JWT stuffs from the States, if we can form a Primera club ...

Originally posted by pche059
hehe dude
that sounds real great
I am actually a NiZan member ..if you have heard of them before..
however..i still think we need a Primera club in NZ.
Hey is yours a p11? or a p10?
mine is a 99 96kw version...
I have got my airbox done by peter already..got a Super AFC installed too...but it is still...seriously under power especially around the high rev area... no torque come through after 5600 rpm?
We should ask Peter to import the JWT stuffs from the States, if we can form a Primera club ... No I haven't heard of NiZan, tell me more. I agree we need a Primera club. It's surprising there isn't one already considering Primeras are NZs most popular used import. 96kW? so I guess you got the De engine. Mine is a '91 AWD P10, 110kW stock- DE high port engine - pics at the link below. You got the airbox mod?? What do they do to it? Did the AFC make a difference? or need to be dyno tuned? I've never been to Pete's shop but I've spoken to him by phone. Do they give good service?? I'm guessing you're in Auckland then (Jaffa:p :p ;)), I'm in Hamilton. Did you get out to the Rally of NZ last weekend? Anyway, enough with the 20 questions, enjoy the forum and come back often.:) :)

NiZan is one of the fastest growing car club in Auckland. They work closely with Advance Import (if you have ever heard of them)
Those ppl are mainly drifters with 200sxs
Check out the next car show (is it the nationals)? They should have their own stand there
Anyway...
I really think we should form a Primera club...
This way we could easily get sponsored by different car related shops and workshops. :alien:
Peter knows a lot about the Primeras.
AFC..? It looks better than what it performs for Primeras, yet it is a completely different stories for turbo cars.
I have always wanted to get the header and the whole exhaust done by Peter... but was afraid that the money vs power is not worthwhile..
Would anyone know how much power increase could/would you get from doing the entire exhaust for a Primera? from the extractors to the tip.

Count me in for a Primera Club. With all the Primera's in NZ it wont take long to get numbers up.

Peter is the man when it comes to Primera's alright.
He's been a help with mine also.
Very clever guy by the sounds of things.

Originally posted by pche059
NiZan is one of the fastest growing car club in Auckland. They work closely with Advance Import (if you have ever heard of them)
Those ppl are mainly drifters with 200sxs
Check out the next car show (is it the nationals)? They should have their own stand there
Anyway...
I really think we should form a Primera club...
This way we could easily get sponsored by different car related shops and workshops. :alien:
Peter knows a lot about the Primeras.
AFC..? It looks better than what it performs for Primeras, yet it is a completely different stories for turbo cars.
I have always wanted to get the header and the whole exhaust done by Peter... but was afraid that the money vs power is not worthwhile..
Would anyone know how much power increase could/would you get from doing the entire exhaust for a Primera? from the extractors to the tip.
Got any contact info for NiZan and Advance Imports? Show? what show? when? where?:confused:

Hmmmmn....a club eh? I guess we could start by asking people to express their interest in a club, where's the best place to do that?.....newspaper ad? radio? carshow?

Did you get the AFC coz Pete recommended it or for another reason. I'd really like to know what they did to your airbox (hint;))

My stock header looks like a pretty good unit performance wise so I'd change other things first. Might be worth your while to compare your exhaust manifold with one from a TE or T4 Primera - The stock one on my T4 is fabricated from flanges and pipes and looks like any 4-2-1- aftermarket header - might be a cheaper option if it all fits together. Be aware that if you overdo exhaust mods you can end up trading low rpm power (most driving time) for hi rpm power (least driving time). Use the forum's search function to view the extensive exhaust discussions that have been.

I've just had a look at my Hayne's manual to see the differences in your engine and others. The cam lobe heights make interesting reading as follows:

Phase I (1990-June 1993) and Phase II (June 1993-October 1996)
SR20de..........37.920 - 38.110mm
SR20DE..........38.408 - 38.598mm (like mine - 110kW)
Exhaust cam for both.....37.920 - 38.110mm

Phase III (October 1996-September 1999)
SR20de..........37.433 - 37.623mm (like yours I think)
SR20DE..........37.989 - 38.179mm
Exhaust cam for both.....37.309 - 37.499mm

You can see the early engines had bigger cams. Might be something else to consider in your quest for power. I'm sure Pete will have an opinion on potential of replacing your cams with earlier model cams.

Originally posted by pche059
Cutting dampers and springs... Would this worsen the handling? Or even shorten the life of them?


Cutting the springs isn't the best way to go. It will raise the spring rate a little, but not enough. Eibach ProKits don't have enough spring rate as it is for the amount they lower the car. So, I would think it would probabaly worsen the handling at the top level of performance since the car would be more likely to hit the bumpstops. This can make for some strange handling.

As for shortening the dampers, if it's done properly by someone who knows what they are doing, it shouldn't make any difference and on a lowered car could possibly extend the life of the damper since they would be less likely to bottom out (bad for dampers).

Originally posted by pche059
Hey what kind of figures are the SR20DEs outputing in the States? anything over 180hp at flywheel ? I have always wanted to take some VTECs out as I used to own one too.
:p

Oh yes. There are a few of us who have built engines making 190-200 bhp. They are not cheap. Mine cost around $6,000 US by the time I was done. About double or triple my original budget. I was never able to get mine on the dyno. Somehow (there are two different theories how) the engine ended up with 0.040" and 0.020" steel shot in the engine. It was a total write-off. :mad: I'm going to build another, even more powerful, but it's going to be a while. I need to rebuild my budget and I need a break from car stuff for a little while.

There is one guy who is making almost 200 bhp with bolt-ons using the JWT C-series cams and valve springs and a lot of dyno tuning. He has sacrificed low end power for huge high end power. The engine I built (and about 4 or 5 others have as well) has a huge power band and lots of torque.

Originally posted by pche059
We should ask Peter to import the JWT stuffs from the States

I don't know if it's any easier for you to get things from OZ, but there is a JWT dealer in OZ. His name is Glen "Lumpy" Campbell. I can get you contact info if you like.

Originally posted by pche059
Would anyone know how much power increase could/would you get from doing the entire exhaust for a Primera? from the extractors to the tip.

Well, the headers stateside will get you 8-16 hp depending upon what one you get. The Hotshot header will get you about 12-16 hp. Most others get 3-4 hp less. Stateside the exhaust seems to get you very little - about 3 hp at best.

I don't know if it's any easier for you to get things from OZ, but there is a JWT dealer in OZ. His name is Glen "Lumpy" Campbell. I can get you contact info if you like.
Yea this would be really great.

Originally posted by pche059

Yea this would be really great.



OK, let me e-mail him. I don't know if he uses a different e-mail address for his shop or if he has a website (I think he may now, but I'm not positive). It may take a little time for him to write back. I depends upon how busy he is. Sometimes I hear from him right away and sometimes it's a few months! :eek:

OK, Lumpy got back to me while I was sleeping.

Here is his contact information:

Glenn LUMPY Campbell ([email protected])

or

Glenn LUMPY Campbell ([email protected])

His website is http://www.driftdivision.com

Lumpy is a good bloke and knowledgeable about Nissans as well as other makes. He's be happy to help you.

Tell him I sent you. :jump:

Hey thanks for that :)

On the website it says it has a camber kit for the p11 primera. DOes that mean it fits a P11 G20 too? Also I thought the P11 doesn't need a camber kit.....cuz I heard about that it has a multilink suspension from someone.......Also they have front strut braces for the P11...would it fit a 2000 since Luke said that the 2000 manifold is bigger than the 99....Im out!

Originally posted by Shobo
On the website it says it has a camber kit for the p11 primera. DOes that mean it fits a P11 G20 too? The camber kit should fit, Primera and G20 share the same chassis/suspension as far as I know. Originally posted by Shobo Also I thought the P11 doesn't need a camber kit.....cuz I heard about that it has a multilink suspension from someone....... They changed the rear suspension in the later cars to multilink beam, pche059 should be able to answer this as he has the whole setup I think.Originally posted by Shobo Also they have front strut braces for the P11...would it fit a 2000 since Luke said that the 2000 manifold is bigger than the 99....Im out! Probably best to e-mail them on this one, and the other questions too - get it straight from the horses mouth.:)

There is no such thing of "needing" a camber kit or not
For most cars...when you lower them, they will get a serious change in camber
angle..usual into the negative side.....
Ppl don't like this because their tyres wear out too unevenly
With the P11, the camber angle is complete independent to the ride height...
my car was sitting on +0.1 camber..and that wasn't too helpful for handling
as well i wanted to lower it so the guard is just sitting on the tyre...
with positive or zero camber...it is gonna rub REAL badly
so yea...
that change in the camber angle improved the performance in unit that is not measurable...have hardly been into a understeer situation ever since.....may be only in wet....
:cool: :cool: :cool:
the camber kit is only for front...as rear is good as it is at -1.0