Starting Problem

2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue ~90k miles

If i park my car and don't start it for a day, the car won't start until 5 or 6 turns of the ignition.

After i get it started, it seems to stop and start fine the rest of the day until i park it in the evening. The next day the starting problem happens all over again.

I don't hear any clicking but a small humming/buzzing sound as if something is trying to turn on.

The interior lights and headlights all come on bright.

I got my 2 year old battery checked and that was ok. Battery terminals are clean.

It seems to be getting worse with colder weather

None of the warning lights come on like the check engine light.

Any ideas where the problem might be? Starter relay? Starter?

thanks in advance

do you mean you have to turn the ignition to OFF and START 5-6 times? Or you have to crank it over 5-6 times?

i have to turn the key to off and start 5 to 6 times. Sometimes more than that.

i don't hear any cranking or clicking. Just a small hum or buzz.

don't turn it off. Toggle the ignition on, let off, on, let off (about 3x second). I think your solenoid in your starter (solenoid may be seperate from the starter = I'm unsure about the Intrigue) is going bad or you could have wire corrosion issues (voltage OK, current bad). Make sure again there is no corrosion on any of those high current wires (the thick ones).

Solenoid = magnetic switch (high current switch). This is what you should be hearing clicking when you turn your car on. No click = solenoid not working.

Buzz = Solenoid corroded and jammed. The iron rod in the magnetic field is not moving = switch does not work.

couldnt this be a simple igntion switch problem?

when you get that buzz/hum sound = magnetic field working overtime to get that iron shaft with contacts to move. May also be not enough current (have the 12V+) to get the shaft to move = possible switch problem/connection problem.

http://mechatronics.mech.northwestern.edu/design_ref/actuators/sol1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e277/liquid100percent/85087546.gif

The solenoid is above the starter. 3 connections. I would guess the two smaller wires are control + and -. The thick wire will be a large + that should hook directly to your battery. The solenoid/starter is grounded to the chassis (reason for no large - wire). Warning: be careful around that large + wire = direct battery +. If you touch that large + wire to anything you will have full battery voltage and current going thru you or something else = reason to disconnect the battery connections before working (removing) on your starter or CKP sensor (above the starter).

Alldata says the solenoid is not replaceable/serviceable. There are people in most cities that service starters/generators/alternators/solenoids etc. You may need to just clean your solenoid (most likely the shaft) from any corrosion. Then test that it clicks with any 12V power source (using an auto battery would be ok).

You have 2 control connections (+12V and -) (small diameter wires)
2 power connections (larger wire) (+12, and - starter connected to chassis thru a bolt and direct contact)
You need 12V with sufficient current ability (enough to magnetize the coil and to move the iron rod) to test that solenoid. Using an auto battery to test both (at the same time) is fine also.

Use a voltmeter with one connection connected to ground and the + connected to the + connections on the starter/solenoid. Two of those connections should be battery voltage. The large wire is connected to the battery = +12V all the time. The small + wire will only be +12 when you turn your car on to start (this is control system controling the very large current needed to start your car. When you starter is on (rotating) the one the large wire +12V (voltage) will drop close to 0V.

As long as the switch is clicking and the contacts are good = your solenoid and starter should be working. Not necessary to hook up the high current leads to test the starter = without the engine load you may even damage it.

When you toggle your start switch it somehow helps unjam the solenoid when it starts to stick, but the situation will only get worse. =Instead of toggle-ing it 3-5 times it will soon be 20-30.

Not sure about the 2000 model year, but on my 2002 there is a crank relay under the hood in the power distribution box. If this was happening to me I would pull the relay out and jumper it to crank the motor from there. Make sure the vehicle is in park and be sure to jump the proper terminals. If the starter/solenoid is ok it should crank from the relay location. Basically, by doing this you are bypassing the ignition switch and passlock system. This may not tell the whole story but it kinds of isolates some of the system. If it cranks ok by jumping it under the hood then I would look elsewhere besides the starter and solenoid.

The temperature outside dropped from 45 degrees to a little less than 20 degrees. Now the intrigue has been starting fine since sunday.

car is driving me crazy. Who would think the temperature dropping would actually help?

If the starting problem happens again, i think i'm going to replace the starter. I figure i'll do ok since i plan to keep the car till it stops working. If that's not it, i guess i'm stuck doing some diagnostics if it's something switch or fuel related.

The advice that's been given has been very helpful and much appreciated. :)

Starting problems were happening again the other day so i got my starter replaced at Pep Boys this weekend. Got a pretty good deal on it, plus it's got that lifetime warranty.

Car starts up just fine now and reliably.

Thanks panzer dragoon. You saved me about $80 to $100 in diagnostic fees and possibly incorrectly replaced parts.

i'm pretty sure it was the solenoid. I didn't ask about the condition of the old starter, but obviously the results speak for themselves

I thought i'd follow up on the last post......

A month later and my car still runs perfectly with no issues. I couldn't go more than a week without starting problems before the starter replacement.

Over the last two years i've had a few sensor changes, a battery replacement, and now a starter replacement.

It finally feels like i'm now at a pretty good place with the car and am back to regular maintenance. Thanks again for all the help :)

these starter solenoids are historically serviceable, but now of course everything is jammed in there as one replaceable unit = often times it is easier to just buy the new/remanufactured starter.

I would also be wary of the ignition switch on your Intrigue = that could have easily also been the culprit = usually the Tech2 Diagnostic scanner/programmer will pick up on any Intrigue ignition switch issue. Many Intrigues have had ignition switch problems (very common for the Intrigue ).

As a couple month update to this. My car has never run better after the starter replacement

BTW, I forgot to mention that Pepboys used an Autozone Duralast starter in the install as they were out of stock on their own part. :)

I have had a starting problem with my 98 Olds. Intrigue for some time now. When I turn the key ignition to start, it would turn, but would not connect (as if no gas). I would listen for the fuel pump and hear it going. Some times it would crank, sometimes it wouldn't. I would sit some days for 15 min. or more. Finally when it would start, it would be fine.

I checked the fuel filter, and it was fine, but I replaced it anyway. I tried it and I would still have inconsistancies with start up. After trying to trace it for a couple of months, it got worse. It got to where when it would start, all guages would light up and the needles would fly all over the place, the service engine light would come on and within seconds the car would shut off. If I pressed down the gas when the guages would go crazy, the car would start but with a chocking sound, as if it was clogged. It was very rough sounding and I looked in the rearview for smoke, but there was none. The car has it's days when it wants to run or not. It has sat for almost a year and I just tried it and it crunk like a new vehicle. I let it run for 15min, switched off and tried again, it worked. The next day, it started back with the problems and the dash dancing around.

The car has 211K and has had 3 (1st in 2000 $200, 2nd in 2002 $250, and 3rd in 2005 @$300) ignition switches put on it. The last time I took it to a dealer, they said it was the ignition switch again. This time they said it would cost $700. :runaround:

I took it to a very repitable mechanic that works on alternator, batteries, and starters. They stated that it was not the ignition switch, but a computer issue.

A third mechanic said he believes the computer is going bad and giving false readings.

What's really the deal here? I have read posts and found that this Forum gives the best advice. Please, for the sake of my 98 Olds that I purchased 10 years ago, can anyone help?

Droyalone, make sure the battery is in good shape - have it load tested - when you talk about the 'needles flying all over the place' it kind of reminds me of a battery with an 'open' or a very weak cable connection. I've seen the negative ground cable at the battery get weak or broken, as well. The negative battery post on my daughter's 98 Intrigue did exactly that, (it actually pulled right out of the battery). Check that before doing the more expensive stuff.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I replaced the batter (under warranty) and though it started more often than not, I still have the problem.

I appreciate the inexpensive approach first!

I would try replacing the ignition swith, I got one for $40 at a junk yard and it took me a couple of hours to do. They seem to go out on the intrigue a lot so if you get the part pretty cheap, it seems like a good thing to do to eliminate it for sure before you start looking at the computer.

I feel your pain. My 2000 intrigue is doing the same thing.I replaced Pcm, Still working on it.Will keep you posted.

If you turn the ignition switch and the engine does not turn over:

1. Battery/corrosion issues
2. starter/solenoid corrosion issues
3. Ignition switch (common intrigue problem) -if you hear the solenoid click (by turning the key to start) it's not the ignition switch.

I have a 1999 Intrigue with the 3.8. Some days it fires right up then some days it sounds at start up like it's running on three cylinders, after multiple tries or letting it sit, it will start and run smooth. No codes ever thrown, changed plugs, wires, FPR,PCV, fuel filter, pump relay. It started one and a half days without a hitch and i thought I fixed it, but it started again. Down to fuel pump, coil packs,vaccum lines, ignition switch. The car runs very good once started but I noticed a skip not bad but there is one just holding the throttle @ 4000 rpm. Any suggestions before spending more money and time chasing the tiger ?

I have a 1999 Intrigue with the 3.8. Some days it fires right up then some days it sounds at start up like it's running on three cylinders, after multiple tries or letting it sit, it will start and run smooth. No codes ever thrown, changed plugs, wires, FPR,PCV, fuel filter, pump relay. It started one and a half days without a hitch and i thought I fixed it, but it started again. Down to fuel pump, coil packs,vaccum lines, ignition switch. The car runs very good once started but I noticed a skip not bad but there is one just holding the throttle @ 4000 rpm. Any suggestions before spending more money and time chasing the tiger ?

-add cps to that list, but I have the LX5. -Usually hard starting with a bad cps, codes can be questionable.

I would agree with the CPS (crankshaft position sensor). They are a common failure point, not too hard to replace on the 3.5 either.

-this is misleading:
For this forum <2010
CPS -camshaft position sensor (I believe this is your fault)
CKP -crankshaft position sensor

-Usually both go out on the 3.5L (LX5) -I have replaced both (2000 Intrigue) and the cps only takes about 10 minutes and $40. CKP is about $80 and 2hrs (remove starter)

>2010
they are now calling the cps a cmp for camshaft position sensor. I would like to drop the cps because it could mean both crank or cam position sensor and just go with cmp.

FOR THE 3.5L (RPO LX5)

CKP:
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/wl2/SU1280/image/8/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df00b3127ccef97e38181be400000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

CMP:

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/wl2/SU1276/image/8/



http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df00b3127ccef97e931d5b2c00000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Think the 3.8 would be close to the same ?

The cps on the 3800 requires removing the balancer.

The camshaft position sensor on the 3800 is a pain = easier to replace the ckp and cmp (both) on the LX5.

Check this forum for the info or look at the Grand Prix (GP)(3800) info at the top of the forum. There is a very good info on this with pictures.