Is removing the one TB Fuel Injector difficult?

I had my wife's '93 Geo Tracker's muffler changed today in Spokane
at "Doc's Muffler Clinic" muffler shop on North Division - I highly
recommend them!

One older guy has a '94 Geo Metro and a younger kid a Suzuki Sidekick.
We talked about my '93 Metro.

The fellow with the Metro was telling me that it would be a good idea
to remove the one Throttle Body Injector assembly and take it to a
specific shop in town that opens it up and rebuilds it. Services it.

Some old guy in a wheelchair takes it apart and makes it like new.

Sounds like a good idea to me as mine is at 158,000 miles now and
I am confident has never been even looked at.

But - I am reluctant to just whip out a $250 part of my
beloved auto and slap it back in.

Thus, I ask - is it difficult and if not, what should I do?

Schucks sells a TBI "Tune Up Kit" for $36 (part # 10939).

The guy at the muffler shop said the Injector has a screen in it so
fine that water won't pass thru it. Now being a chemist, a red flag
went up. A smidgen of alcohol would unblock that by dissolving
(being miscible with) the water and sending it on thru.....

But.....fixing the orofice to make it have a good SPRAY
pattern would be a good thing to do.

DoctorBill

I had my wife's '93 Geo Tracker's muffler changed today in Spokane
at "Doc's Muffler Clinic" muffler shop on North Division - I highly
recommend them!

One older guy has a '94 Geo Metro and a younger kid a Suzuki Sidekick.
We talked about my '93 Metro.

The fellow with the Metro was telling me that it would be a good idea
to remove the one Throttle Body Injector assembly and take it to a
specific shop in town that opens it up and rebuilds it. Services it.

Some old guy in a wheelchair takes it apart and makes it like new.

Sounds like a good idea to me as mine is at 158,000 miles now and
I am confident has never been even looked at.

But - I am reluctant to just whip out a $250 part of my
beloved auto and slap it back in.

Thus, I ask - is it difficult and if not, what should I do?

Schucks sells a TBI "Tune Up Kit" for $36 (part # 10939).

The guy at the muffler shop said the Injector has a screen in it so
fine that water won't pass thru it. Now being a chemist, a red flag
went up. A smidgen of alcohol would unblock that by dissolving
(being miscible with) the water and sending it on thru.....

But.....fixing the orofice to make it have a good SPRAY
pattern would be a good thing to do.

DoctorBill

Hi,

Nope. I believe you will need TORX drivers to complete the task. I take it you removed the air cleaner and found a non-conical spray pattern? Drips? Take the cover off the injector and carefully en prise the injector from the bore with your fingers.

Blake

"I take it you removed the air cleaner and found a non-conical spray
pattern? Drips?" No - I just thought it sounded like a good thing to do at
157,000 miles on the car......Preventative maintenance - the car
is running so crappy in this cold (18 °F today).

"Take the cover off the injector and carefully en prise the injector from
the bore with your fingers." Just pull it out as it were...?

These 'doohickies' cost about $250 from NAPA or other web sites!

I know from experience with a VW BUS and a VW Rabbit that fuel
injector tips wear out. The gas actually wears the orofice larger
and rougher and the spray gets ragged and sloppy. But why just
one lousy spray tip should cost so damned much is asinine....

I notice that more than one topic on a thread leaves many questions
unanswered. Should I post each one separately maybe.

I have many questions.....some have been covered.
1. Vacuum lines
2. EGR
3. Transmission
4. TB
5. ECM - how can you tell if it is working well?
6. O2 Sensor
7. Tune up
8. Brakes
9. Fuel pump - many posts on this topic!
10. Idle adjustment
11. PVC valve
12. Temp sensors (several- no?)
13. MFI
etc etc.... on and on.

DoctorBill

"I take it you removed the air cleaner and found a non-conical spray
pattern? Drips?" No - I just thought it sounded like a good thing to do at
157,000 miles on the car......Preventative maintenance - the car
is running so crappy in this cold (18 °F today).

"Take the cover off the injector and carefully en prise the injector from
the bore with your fingers." Just pull it out as it were...?

These 'doohickies' cost about $250 from NAPA or other web sites!

I know from experience with a VW BUS and a VW Rabbit that fuel
injector tips wear out. The gas actually wears the orofice larger
and rougher and the spray gets ragged and sloppy. But why just
one lousy spray tip should cost so damned much is asinine....

I notice that more than one topic on a thread leaves many questions
unanswered. Should I post each one separately maybe.

I have many questions.....some have been covered.
1. Vacuum lines
2. EGR
3. Transmission
4. TB
5. ECM - how can you tell if it is working well?
6. O2 Sensor
7. Tune up
8. Brakes
9. Fuel pump - many posts on this topic!
10. Idle adjustment
11. PVC valve
12. Temp sensors (several- no?)
13. MFI
etc etc.... on and on.

DoctorBill

I have not ignored you...this list of questions will require a novel. Stay tuned.

Blake

I have not ignored you...this list of questions will require a novel. Stay tuned.
Blake

You are a very patient person! Most people get tired of my endless
questions and tell me to piss off....

If I have any more questions, I will try to keep each to a separate
thread. I have the annoying habit of asking 10 questions on a single
thread.

DoctorBill

[QUOTE=DOCTORBILL]You are a very patient person! Most people get tired of my endless
questions and tell me to piss off....

(edited)

I must be nuts Doc... ;-)

You might want to delete this and place it in a different thread...

You have posted in the wrong thread, Blake.

I have no idea what you are addressing in your post....

DoctorBill

You might want to delete this and place it in a different thread...

You have posted in the wrong thread, Blake.

I have no idea what you are addressing in your post....

DoctorBill
Now that is funny. I will delete it alright, but this was a continued conversation. Earlier I talked about writing a novel to answer your questions. I posted this one to show how often I write novels. It was a guide to troubleshoot BMW cruise controls.

BTW _ I am having serious fun here on this forum!
Blake

Now that is funny. I will delete it alright, but this was
a continued conversation. Earlier I talked about writing a novel to
answer your questions. I posted this one to show how often I write
novels. It was a guide to troubleshoot BMW cruise controls.

BTW _ I am having serious fun here on this forum!
Blake

I find this forum very interesting myself. Sometimes I even have an
urge to try and help some of these folk.....but about all I really
know about is eating Mexican and Italian food and picking my nose.

Other than that, I can teach Chemistry and have strong opinions on
everything - especially politics.

My '93 Metro is still running funny.

That "sweet Spot" as you call it is not so sweet on my vehicle.

Yesterday I was running north on Highway 27 here in Spokane County,
and on any upward slope the power would fall off.
If I gave it any gas pedal, the power would drop off more.

Get this....if I flipped the gas pedal and then mashed it to
the floor, the car would accelerate!

The gas pedal is OK for about 0.33 the way down and after 0.33 to
about 0.80 the pedal slows me down. After that - from 0.80 to
the floor, the car accelerates.

I think I have serious problems with the TB.

Is my TB shot?

DoctorBill

I find this forum very interesting myself. Sometimes I even have an
urge to try and help some of these folk.....but about all I really
know about is eating Mexican and Italian food and picking my nose.

Other than that, I can teach Chemistry and have strong opinions on
everything - especially politics.

My '93 Metro is still running funny.

That "sweet Spot" as you call it is not so sweet on my vehicle.

Yesterday I was running north on Highway 27 here in Spokane County,
and on any upward slope the power would fall off.
If I gave it any gas pedal, the power would drop off more.

Get this....if I flipped the gas pedal and then mashed it to
the floor, the car would accelerate!

The gas pedal is OK for about 0.33 the way down and after 0.33 to
about 0.80 the pedal slows me down. After that - from 0.80 to
the floor, the car accelerates.

I think I have serious problems with the TB.

Is my TB shot?

DoctorBill

Hmm. Does your fuel pump seem loud? This is starting to sound like mine before it failed.

So let me ask - "When you say you go beyond .33% of the pedal, the car falls on its face power-wise, like running out of gas? My engine just does'nt pull as hard past that point, thus the "sweet spot".

When my pump was failing the sound of the pump that I was used to hearing had changed in pitch. Starting was fine and the idle was acceptable, however when I pushed the throttle for power the engine would lose almost all power and sputter. I found that if I pumped the throttle and mashed it down, the engine would regain power. Eventually this pumping of the throttle for power came to an abrupt end and I found myself sputtering towards home in 2nd gear before it failed totally. I had thought my pump was fine because when I measured the pressure it was correct, but I was in error. In order to really test the pump I should have taped my guage to the windshield and went for a drive. Had I done this I would have seen that the pump could not supply the volume required when the engine was under load and needed a greater volume of fuel.

Now this might not be your case, but it certainly could be. Another item to check would be the throttle position sensor.

Blake

**Hmm. Does your fuel pump seem loud? This is
starting to sound like mine before it failed. **

I don't know what to listen for. My vehicle sounds much like a diesel.
I had the muffler changed several months ago and it was louder
afterward! The muffler shop says it is fine....
BTW - whoever had sold me the car had removed the Catalytic
Converter! Straight pipe back to the muffler.


**So let me ask - "When you say you go beyond .33% of the pedal,
the car falls on its face power-wise, like running out of gas? My
engine just does'nt pull as hard past that point, thus the "sweet
spot".**

Exactly! It actually loses power until I mash it to the floor - THEN
it accelerates!

**
When my pump was failing the sound of the pump that I was used to
hearing had changed in pitch. Starting was fine and the idle was
acceptable, however when I pushed the throttle for power the engine
would lose almost all power and sputter. I found that if I pumped the
throttle and mashed it down, the engine would regain power. **

Precisely! Exact description of my situation. In fact it is getting
worse - today the car stalled as I was pulling out into heavy
traffic. Put me in a dangerous spot! If I had had a gun (I actually
did!), I would have shot it in the engine block!


**Eventually this pumping of the throttle for power came to an abrupt
end and I found myself sputtering towards home in 2nd gear before it
failed totally. I had thought my pump was fine because when I
measured the pressure it was correct, but I was in error. In order to
really test the pump I should have taped my guage to the windshield
and went for a drive. Had I done this I would have seen that the
pump could not supply the volume required when the engine was
under load and needed a greater volume of fuel. **


This reply of yours is fortuitous..... I was just going to start a new
thread about "How does one replace the fuel pump"..... but I read this
first!



**Now this might not be your case, but it certainly could be. Another
item to check would be the throttle position sensor.**


OK - you have convinced me Mein Herr!

How about another chapter of your 'book' about all the
ins & outs of replacing the fuel pump?

IS IT DIFFICULT TO DO !? - Expensive....?

Throttle Position sensor - Hard to replace? Expensive?

DoctorBill

I went to Schuck's and bought a Bosch Fuel Pump - $180
Lifetime warantee....

I ordered a filter screen - $23 Takes several days to arrive.
It was suggested that I change THAT also...sounds reasonable.

A local auto shop I use will replace it for $140. 2.5 hrs time.

I hope the Hell this fuel filter thing is what is wrong..... Going to cost
me $370.

I won't drive it until I can get the screen and an appointment at the
shop. Don't want it to fail 20 miles out in the back country (where
I live) and freeze to death walking home at 15 °F....

Pisses me off - if this were not winter time I would have a go at
replacing it myself.

As to the Throttle Position Sensor - where at on a '93 TBI 1.0 L 3 cyl engine?

My Chilton Manual shows one on an ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTOR
Metro - which mine is not. The manual does not say where it is
on an old fashioned 3 cyl 1.0 L Throttle Body engine.....

Chilton says and I quote, "The sensor is connected to the throttle
valve shaft" - but the picture is not of my type engine.

Does a '93 3 cylinder TBI setup even have one?

DopctorBill