Autocross

Hey, I am thinking about getting into autocross...i don't know anyhting aobut it..i just love cars and want to do more with them...

What exactly is autocross??? is it runnign through a pilon course? I want to race, but not drag racing...i like cornerin and all...

I don't have a tunable suspension, it's tokico blues with arospeed coilovers..i dont' imagine they are what autocrossers want, but is it still do-able?

When I have my ls/vtec swap done in a month or so, would my car be classified really high and put me against experienced drivers??

I'm thinkin about buyin a 88-91 crx or hb and strippin' it and doing up the suspension on bolt ons and stuff, because my car is a show car, and i enjoy my air conditioning...and back seat....and stereo.....let me know....

thanks so much!

pm civicsiracer......he's an autocross racer. He can give you lots of info.

alrright,. i PM-ed him, i don't know if it worked or not...guess we'll see....


if anyone else knows the answers to my bleek questions, let me know:)

There are two kinds. Solo 1 and Solo 2. (i might have the backwards)

Solo 2 is through cones and stuff and doesn't require a roll cage and stuff.

Solo 1 is through a more road-race style track and is more "race-oriented". I think most people do Solo 2.

CivicSiRacer does Solo 1 I think..


there's my 2 cents :) i hope it's right..LoL

so solo 2 would be indy car style courses???? i'd love to do that, obviously i'd learn on solo 1...i'll have ot wait and talk to civicsiracer....hopefully he PM's soon

Well first of all visit my site to get some of your questions answered: http://home.dejazzd.com/mlouie/autocross.html

And secondly your swap puts you in Street Mod. Basically street legal cars with swaps, turbos, superchargers, and DOT racing tires. I'm going to say that your 1st year or two is your learning curve. Get as much seat time as you can. Don't worry about winning. Most regions will have novice instructors that will be able to ride along with you, drive the car for you, or you can sit in the car as they drive. Also some regions have fun runs for less than a competition run. I usually do one competition run, and then 2-3 fun runs. So I might get a total of 12-16 runs in one day :)

But whatever you do don't go crazy on mods. Stick with what you have right now, because the more mods you do the tougher the class gets. Just like what my signature says.

Also to mention; you can spend $600 on a nice catback exhaust system and maybe gain .5 seconds on a 60 second course OR you can go to an Evolution School for $225 (http://www.autocross.com/evolution), an Autocross school (price varies), or to a Novice School (approximately $50) and gain 2-8 seconds on the same course. How do I know? I went to an Evolution School Phase I and II last month and my baseline run in the morning was 36.xxx seconds. At the end of the day I got down to a 34.0xx just by taking different lines.

Anymore questions feel free to ask.

Oh and I don't do Solo I right now I'm Solo II but I'm giving Solo I a try this summer. Need to find a roll cage :)

Originally posted by CivicSiRacer

But whatever you do don't go crazy on mods. Stick with what you have right now, because the more mods you do the tougher the class gets.


[/B]


Agreed. Alot of the mr2 guys always say go in there with a stock car, drive it hard, and appreciate the car for the sake of the drive. I have yet to actually go to one (I'm terrified of spinning out, and yes I have dont it before), but I'll have to agree with the quote:

"the best investment to your car is learning how to autox/road race"

HAVE FUN
Maurice

www.angelfire.com/emo/onesojourner

The thing that is very different from drag racing mentality and autocrossing is drag racing allows you to do basically anything as long as it's Comp class, turbo class, etc...

These rules do not apply to autocross.

And for the beginner you want to learn what your car can do first before going faster. To go faster you have to be smoother. And once you're smoother on the course you can add more speed.

I taught at a Novice School this past weekend and I had one student who was always trying to go faster, and when I drove the car with him as a passenger he kept saying "Feels like we're going slower" But then I told him, notice that your head wasn't being jerked around, and prolly could carry a full cup of coffee in your lap"

Watching someone else in a 240SX: he was staying in first gear the whole time around the course and the car was diving then accelerating, and you could see the instructor getting sick :)

Then at the end of the day I drove some students cars and beat them all with their own car :)

i haven't had a chance to read both those web sites, but i am really interested in the school...i doubt there is one around my area...maybe in Vancouver, which is 4 hours away...but that would definitely be worth the drive!

Originally posted by CivicSiRacer
Well first of all visit my site to get some of your questions answered: http://home.dejazzd.com/mlouie/autocross.html


Your site's awesome. :D

yea, you're site is awesome, thanks a lot


I just got off the phone, I'm trying to contact Ken Tubman in regards to the Phase 1 classes in Calgary, AB, in June. Hopefully it won't be really expensive...it's an 8 hour drive there...but i figure it'll be worth the drive to spend the weekend in the classes. I'm really excited.

CivicSiRacer...what would be a good car to start with? I'll use my civic for now, but when i get the engine swap, i'l have to get somehting different, somehting stock...are 240's good for autocross??? let me know....thanks again for all the help

Originally posted by CXHatchback


Your site's awesome. :D

It's ok, but thanks. I need to add some more stuff to it. I wanted to make it less wordy than other sites, and simplier to understand than what I found on other websites.

get rid of those Arospeed coils :)

u no like arospeed...hehehe, yea..they suck, but i've spent about $3000 cdn to do my suspension...i don't feel like changin anything else right now...but yea...i'd love some ground controls....

the class is full already....god damnit...but i was talkin to Keith at car tune and toys, and he said he knows of other autocross schools, one is closer than Calgary also, so hopefully i'l be able to get into that....

CivicSiRacer--I notice that you said you have a 4 point harness in your car but don't have a harness bar. Where do you mount your harness on without a roll cage or bar?

I am planing to put a 4 point harness on my seat, but don't really want to but a bar or roll cage in there yet and not wanting to drill holes, just wondering what did you do to put the harness in.

tofuboy, jsut wanted to let you know that i really like your ride, looks really good!

tofuboy, jsut wanted to let you know that i really like your ride, looks really good!

Thank you Soul

Originally posted by soul180
yea, you're site is awesome, thanks a lot

CivicSiRacer...what would be a good car to start with? I'll use my civic for now, but when i get the engine swap, i'l have to get somehting different, somehting stock...are 240's good for autocross??? let me know....thanks again for all the help

Realistically any car is great for autocross, which makes autocross so interesting. We have a Ford Fiesta that runs circles around everyone. something like 80hp :) I'd recommend a CRX Si since I'm a Honda guy. But there's a 240 SX in my class which only needs some good tires to give me a run for my money.

Originally posted by Tofuboy
CivicSiRacer--I notice that you said you have a 4 point harness in your car but don't have a harness bar. Where do you mount your harness on without a roll cage or bar?

I am planing to put a 4 point harness on my seat, but don't really want to but a bar or roll cage in there yet and not wanting to drill holes, just wondering what did you do to put the harness in.

I mounted mine to the rear stock seat belt buckles.

Other people have mounted it to the rear shoulder belt on the C-pillar.

I mounted mine to the rear stock seat belt buckles.

I assume yours is a 3 point harness if you use the back seat buckle.

Wouldn't it be offset toward one side when you put the harness in?

What about the lap belt? Do you bolt it on the seat mount?

I am looking to get a harness from sparco but not sure which one will fit into the back seat buckle (snap-in, bolt-in or blt-in?) Just wonder if you are familiar with these harnesses.

Originally posted by Tofuboy


I assume yours is a 3 point harness if you use the back seat buckle.

Wouldn't it be offset toward one side when you put the harness in?

What about the lap belt? Do you bolt it on the seat mount?

I am looking to get a harness from sparco but not sure which one will fit into the back seat buckle (snap-in, bolt-in or blt-in?) Just wonder if you are familiar with these harnesses.

Nope I have a 4 point. They are both bolted to the same seat belt bolt. And yes one is offseted more than the other - but they are adjustable belts.

The lap belts go to the rear seat mounts.

i'm getting H style 4 point belts for my front seats, i can just run them down the back of the seat and bolt them through the floor right???

The lap belts go to the rear seat mounts.

Lap belts bolt on the REAR SEAT mounts??:confused:
You mean the back of the front seat mounts?

i'm getting H style 4 point belts for my front seats, i can just run them down the back of the seat and bolt them through the floor right???

If you plan to bolt them on the floor make sure the shoulder belts are no more than 45 degree from the horizontal line (where the shoulder belts forms a horizontal line from the back of the driver seat to the head rest of the back seat) or your belt will not work properly.

Originally posted by soul180
i'm getting H style 4 point belts for my front seats, i can just run them down the back of the seat and bolt them through the floor right???

No you don't want to do that. A harness is not supposed to be vertical when it goes past the seat. If you get into an accident the harness will compress your spine and cause paralysis or death. You want your harness to be no less than 45 degrees - which would mean bolting it to the rear seats or the seat belt bolt on the c-pilllar.

Originally posted by Tofuboy

Lap belts bolt on the REAR SEAT mounts??
You mean the back of the front seat mounts?

Lap belts on the front seat two rear bolts :) Ones holding the front seats to the floor.

CivicSiRacer, could you possibly show me a picture of what you mean for bolting the shoulder section of the belts. I understand where to bolt the lap belts, so where do i bolt the other ones....please let me know and show me a pic if possible, as death doesn't sound fun!

Originally posted by soul180
CivicSiRacer, could you possibly show me a picture of what you mean for bolting the shoulder section of the belts. I understand where to bolt the lap belts, so where do i bolt the other ones....please let me know and show me a pic if possible, as death doesn't sound fun!

Pull up your rear seats and use the bolts for the seat belts. Put the seat back down and you're done./

tht's gotta make it a big pain in the ass for anyone getting into the back seat heh???

Originally posted by soul180
tht's gotta make it a big pain in the ass for anyone getting into the back seat heh???

That's what my wife's car is for. I don't take passengers :) And even if I could I wouldn't since my car is lowered and I would scrape my muffler.

yea, i guess for the 1% of the time i have a paasenger in the back they can manage. How would i bolt down the rear racing belts (its a show car...it's gotta match:rolleyes: ) i'm thinkin i just bolt the lap belts in the regular spots, then run the shoulder straps through the trunk, and make a 45degre angle with them. thanks

Originally posted by soul180
yea, i guess for the 1% of the time i have a paasenger in the back they can manage. How would i bolt down the rear racing belts (its a show car...it's gotta match:rolleyes: ) i'm thinkin i just bolt the lap belts in the regular spots, then run the shoulder straps through the trunk, and make a 45degre angle with them. thanks

Well make sure the shoulder belts are bolted down. Also you should never wear your harness on the street unless you have a roll cage. If you were to flip over with your harness on without a cage the roof will collapse and since the harness is holding you tight it will crush your skull and vertebrae.

so i have to leave my stock belts in? I don't understand what the difference would be if i flipped wearing my stock belts, they would still hold me in my seat right?

Originally posted by soul180
so i have to leave my stock belts in? I don't understand what the difference would be if i flipped wearing my stock belts, they would still hold me in my seat right?

The stock seat belts would hold you in, but when the roof caves in you can still be pushed down. With a harness on you cannot be pushed down and the next thing to give is your neck or vertebrae. CRUNCH! So yes you leave the stock belts in.

Maybe these pics will get more people into autocross :)

Taken yesterday at Gettusburg, PA.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/p2d5dd3cda17f0c32a7bd0284c9fb18c8/fdae2e6d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/pddc28e055830e4fe3e6e55db541e7309/fdae2e6b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/pc25bdaf71a4a3765a22ff1dfb38324a8/fdae2e65.jpg

Is that a PT Cruiser I see going through the course back there?

Originally posted by delsolguy
Is that a PT Cruiser I see going through the course back there?

Yes it is. The wife was one of my students at the Novice School last weekend. The husband is getting back into autocrossing about a couple years vacation. They are about 2-3 seconds behind all the other H stock cars and they haven't even tuned it yet. Racing tires will give it a 1-2 second advantage, and then tuning will help alot too. There isn't alot of body roll to that car and she drives it harder than the husband I think :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid21/pf6d42b656a377b2e1fa03cac54eb88e4/fdae51e5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid21/p106f9a9041b2f35284971527fb7c2d02/fdae51e0.jpg

That is why autocrossing is so amazing. YOu can take any car and run it :)

Yeah it certainly sounds like a lot of fun, and it's definitely something I would like to get into. A quick question:

I browsed SCCA's site quickly, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. Like most street Hondas, I have a few things done to my car. I/H/Cat/E, coilovers (not sleeves), and a larger wheel/tire combo. I'm also a complete n00b to AutoX. What class would be right for me? I'm concerned that my mods would put me into a more advanced class, where other competitors have much more than just the basics done, but yet I would still be too "not-stock" to compete in the Stock class. Is there a specific place online that would tell me what mods are and aren't allowed in the classes?

CivicSiRacer...i'm sorry, i must be really dense...but i'm still not seeing how the seat belts would be different in case of a roll over...either way both seat belts are going to hold u in the seat, if anyhting, i thought the harness would be better, as it will hold u in the seat better, there by not allowin u to smash the roof...u said that the stock seat belts will still allow u to be pushed down...i'm not really understanding where i'd be pushed down to???

The only reason i'm asking is i don't want the stock seat belts, but at the same time, i don't want to be unsafe, especially for my passengers. Please let me know.

I think what CivicSi's tryin to say with the harness and roof collapsing is this: Imagine you're in your car and you want to grab a CD from the passenger side floor or something. With stock seatbelts, no problem. Just lean over - it doesn't hold you in as tight. By the same token, lateral movement isn't checked as well with stock seatbelts as it is with a harness, which is why harnesses are good for racing. But in the event of a roll over, if you have a stock belt on, then yes the seat belt will hold you in place, but the roof caving in will actually push you out of the way in one direction or another, like to the side (assuming the roll didn't throw you sideways a little bit). But a harnesses sole purpose is to prevent exactly that. It's to keep you vertical in your seat, nice and tight, snug as a bug in a rug. So when the roof caves in, instead of you being pushed out of the way or whatever, the harness functions exactly as it's supposed to, and keeps you vertical. Unfortunately, this also means your head will get crushed by the roof, or your neck broken, since you can't move anywhere. That help at all?

so that's why stock seat belts are angled right??? i think i'm understanding...now i don't know what ot do...i don't want to buy harnesses and enver use them...and i don't race, i just dfrive street, but ath the same time, the harnessese are much safer in a regular accident, and look a lot better with racing seats which i'm getting this weekend...a dilemma...

Originally posted by delsolguy
Yeah it certainly sounds like a lot of fun, and it's definitely something I would like to get into. A quick question:

I browsed SCCA's site quickly, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. Like most street Hondas, I have a few things done to my car. I/H/Cat/E, coilovers (not sleeves), and a larger wheel/tire combo. I'm also a complete n00b to AutoX. What class would be right for me? I'm concerned that my mods would put me into a more advanced class, where other competitors have much more than just the basics done, but yet I would still be too "not-stock" to compete in the Stock class. Is there a specific place online that would tell me what mods are and aren't allowed in the classes?

You would be in STS as long as those are the mods you have. Your first year you should worry about winning but getting as much seat time and instruction time as you can. You can visit my site: http://home.dejazzd.com/mlouie/mikecivicsi.html and all my mods are STS legal. All I haven't done are camber plates and polyurethane suspension bushings.

STS is street legal street tired cars that have to have 4 seats (reclineable), and no LSD (except for VLSD) and no turbo except the 1.8T FWD VWs/Audis and the Mazda 323 GTX.

Originally posted by soul180
CivicSiRacer...i'm sorry, i must be really dense...but i'm still not seeing how the seat belts would be different in case of a roll over...either way both seat belts are going to hold u in the seat, if anyhting, i thought the harness would be better, as it will hold u in the seat better, there by not allowin u to smash the roof...u said that the stock seat belts will still allow u to be pushed down...i'm not really understanding where i'd be pushed down to???

The only reason i'm asking is i don't want the stock seat belts, but at the same time, i don't want to be unsafe, especially for my passengers. Please let me know.

Don't worry I don't mind explaining. Put your seat belt on and you can slide down in your seat (pushing your knees into the steering column). Put a harness on and try to do the same - you can't.

Originally posted by soul180
so that's why stock seat belts are angled right??? i think i'm understanding...now i don't know what ot do...i don't want to buy harnesses and enver use them...and i don't race, i just dfrive street, but ath the same time, the harnessese are much safer in a regular accident, and look a lot better with racing seats which i'm getting this weekend...a dilemma...

No that's why seat belts are angled. It's more for convience. There are retractable harnesses by Schroth and Momo - but they are expensive. They lock like regular seat belts when slamming on the brakes but allow freedom when just cruising. I would still buy a roll cage with those anyway.

hey./....are u thinkin of harnesses with the crotch strap??? if i get the 4 point i should still slide out a bit wouldn't it? I'm not going to race this car at all..it's only driven on the street....will i be ok to use harnessesE?

I had originally thought STS too, but I only have two seats. No back seats to speak of.

Originally posted by soul180
hey./....are u thinkin of harnesses with the crotch strap??? if i get the 4 point i should still slide out a bit wouldn't it? I'm not going to race this car at all..it's only driven on the street....will i be ok to use harnessesE?

I REPEAT DO NOT USE A HARNESS OF ANY KIND FOR THE STREET UNLESS YOU HAVE A ROLL CAGE. why risk it? My 4 point harness once I'm strapped in I cannot go anywhere or reach anything except my steering wheel, horn, shifter, seat lever (barely), and my video camera which is right next to me. That's the whole point of a harness.

Plus do not go buy those Weapon R harness - they are not DOT legal. Get one from a reputable company - Schroth, Momo, Sabelt...

Originally posted by delsolguy
I had originally thought STS too, but I only have two seats. No back seats to speak of.

There was talks of doing an STS2, but all there is right now is SM2. I think it was recommended to the STAC board (Street Touring Advisory Committee) to let the Del Sol in the STS because it is the exact same as the Civic coupe in weight and power. Gearing is the same too. Hell they let the Mazda 323 GTX (turbo AWD) in STS.

dont bother with a harness for the street if you dont plan on doing real racing... it's made to keep you in your seat tightly.

besides, most harnesses arent DOT certified. the only one that comes to mind is the Schroth 3 pt double buckle that's DOT and SFI approved. most others are SFI approved for racing, but arent DOT certified for street use... you can end up with a seatbelt fine for that.


i personally use a Sabelt Clubman double buckle 3 point so i can remove it when i'm not racing.

Originally posted by CivicSiRacer
There was talks of doing an STS2, but all there is right now is SM2. I think it was recommended to the STAC board (Street Touring Advisory Committee) to let the Del Sol in the STS because it is the exact same as the Civic coupe in weight and power. Gearing is the same too. Hell they let the Mazda 323 GTX (turbo AWD) in STS.

Thanks for the help. I'll do some research on my own (for once ;)) and see if I can find out for sure.

Originally posted by delsolguy


Thanks for the help. I'll do some research on my own (for once ;)) and see if I can find out for sure.

I'm pretty sure locally people will not have a problem. It's not like you have an advantage with your car as compared to the CRX. Del Sol is 2600lbs, 125hp (SOHC VTEC), and the Del Sol Si VTEC is 2700lbs, 160hp (DOHC VTEC). So it's basically the same as the 1992-2000 Civic ex or the 1999-2000 Civic Si.

The CRX on the other hand is like 1900lbs so there's a HUGE difference.

Yeah, it probably won't be a problem.

delsolguy—who wants to point out that Sols weigh about 200 lbs. less than what CivicSiRacer said :).

Originally posted by delsolguy
Yeah, it probably won't be a problem.

delsolguy—who wants to point out that Sols weigh about 200 lbs. less than what CivicSiRacer said :).

Well I was close :) 200lbs might make a difference but nothing huge.

I was wondering what class would a car with an engine swap be. say no mods other then a 93 civic hatchback with a integ GSR engine in it :smile:

You would be in STREET MOD. ONe of the most expensive classes :)