Explanation of what happened.
igor@af
03-21-2002, 10:23 AM
Hey guys, I never wanted to post any of this on the message board, but after seeing that Brian has posted a lot of bullshit about AF, I simply feel the obligation to defend myself and AF.
First, even though very long, I believe it is crucial that you read the conversation I had with Brian last night. It took place after one of my great left-hand people informed of possible conspiracy against AF by the G20 moderators. Additionally, I noticed the same post in every G20 forums by Brian - asking every user to email him his username and email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm
If you think that the person in the above conversation can do the job I've been doing on AF here, think again :)
To summarize: He lied to me about the purpose of the 'mailing list' he was collecting. As soon as I mentioned the rumor, he got on a defensive and began acting very unprofessional and immature. The rumor, as some of you may already know, has proved to be true. He basically wanted to flee AF with all of the G20 members, without even my knowledge, doing it all behind my back. Well... read the conversation above, it will all be clear :)
I would like to say that I was totally stunned when the rumor was confirmed, that Jason and Brian would do this. It still is pretty hard to believe. But since that is the path they have decided to take, I can not do anything about it, considering how Brian behaved himself in the conversation. I did not hear a single 'sorry' for the immoralities he planned on pulling on me and the whole AF, and he tried to "innocentify" himself by all means possible.
Well guys, I have to say that having run AF for 16 months now, I know that it takes way more than what Brian has demonstrated to run successfull community.
Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.
I am still very shocked and dissappointed about this. I have simply heard to many stories just like this on the internet, and G20.net was the least expected party to do what they did.
Now, that all these things are done and it appears there is no way back, I would like to rebuild the G20 community here.
First, we will need 2 or 3 honest, reasonable, mature, and knowledgable moderators for the G20 forums, is anyone interested in the position?
I am sure it will be a challenge in the beginning, since we will all have to get over this still unbelievable timetable of events, and make the community even better than it was before. But I think we can do that and much more.
Additionally, you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish, and when you see the Conspirators' new message board, you may at first glance think of it above and beyond AF - I would like to explain why you will feel this, so that no one regrets the critical choice that they might make:
Human eye and brain are pleased by something 'new,' such as new colors, a new layout, etc. Even some new pointless gadgets. But after a very short time, all of that would add up to zero. What keeps the community runnning are the members. Here we have over 40,000 posts and many members, and that is the strong display of community and survival. A new layout is not. [I wonder how they plan paying for the server, etc.]
To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:
-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.
Well, I have already typed enough.
I am still stunned and never thought I would have to do this.
It is not what they tried to do that diturbs me, but how they did it. Again, had they simply contacted me to try to resolve any of the issues, they would have been either resolved or they could do as they pleased, and I would have had no problem with that.
We need to setup new community leadership here, so if you think you can handle 'it' or think someone might, just reply back here, along with any thoughts that you may have.
Thank you guys :)
First, even though very long, I believe it is crucial that you read the conversation I had with Brian last night. It took place after one of my great left-hand people informed of possible conspiracy against AF by the G20 moderators. Additionally, I noticed the same post in every G20 forums by Brian - asking every user to email him his username and email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm
If you think that the person in the above conversation can do the job I've been doing on AF here, think again :)
To summarize: He lied to me about the purpose of the 'mailing list' he was collecting. As soon as I mentioned the rumor, he got on a defensive and began acting very unprofessional and immature. The rumor, as some of you may already know, has proved to be true. He basically wanted to flee AF with all of the G20 members, without even my knowledge, doing it all behind my back. Well... read the conversation above, it will all be clear :)
I would like to say that I was totally stunned when the rumor was confirmed, that Jason and Brian would do this. It still is pretty hard to believe. But since that is the path they have decided to take, I can not do anything about it, considering how Brian behaved himself in the conversation. I did not hear a single 'sorry' for the immoralities he planned on pulling on me and the whole AF, and he tried to "innocentify" himself by all means possible.
Well guys, I have to say that having run AF for 16 months now, I know that it takes way more than what Brian has demonstrated to run successfull community.
Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.
I am still very shocked and dissappointed about this. I have simply heard to many stories just like this on the internet, and G20.net was the least expected party to do what they did.
Now, that all these things are done and it appears there is no way back, I would like to rebuild the G20 community here.
First, we will need 2 or 3 honest, reasonable, mature, and knowledgable moderators for the G20 forums, is anyone interested in the position?
I am sure it will be a challenge in the beginning, since we will all have to get over this still unbelievable timetable of events, and make the community even better than it was before. But I think we can do that and much more.
Additionally, you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish, and when you see the Conspirators' new message board, you may at first glance think of it above and beyond AF - I would like to explain why you will feel this, so that no one regrets the critical choice that they might make:
Human eye and brain are pleased by something 'new,' such as new colors, a new layout, etc. Even some new pointless gadgets. But after a very short time, all of that would add up to zero. What keeps the community runnning are the members. Here we have over 40,000 posts and many members, and that is the strong display of community and survival. A new layout is not. [I wonder how they plan paying for the server, etc.]
To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:
-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.
Well, I have already typed enough.
I am still stunned and never thought I would have to do this.
It is not what they tried to do that diturbs me, but how they did it. Again, had they simply contacted me to try to resolve any of the issues, they would have been either resolved or they could do as they pleased, and I would have had no problem with that.
We need to setup new community leadership here, so if you think you can handle 'it' or think someone might, just reply back here, along with any thoughts that you may have.
Thank you guys :)
cas8_1999
03-21-2002, 10:54 AM
In my opinion its not wrong for them to go and try to do their own thing out there on g20.net , but its the most common problem out there in the world everyone wants their own fame. Thats why you see so many car clubs blow up but then once they are big each individual wants their own claim to fame and quickly forgets about anything and anyone else.
The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models
casual
The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models
casual
G20 SpoRt 2002
03-21-2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by cas8_1999
In my opinion its not wrong for them to go and try to do their own thing out there on g20.net , but its the most common problem out there in the world everyone wants their own fame. Thats why you see so many car clubs blow up but then once they are big each individual wants their own claim to fame and quickly forgets about anything and anyone else.
The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models
casual
Couldnt of said it better I agree with you! :D
In my opinion its not wrong for them to go and try to do their own thing out there on g20.net , but its the most common problem out there in the world everyone wants their own fame. Thats why you see so many car clubs blow up but then once they are big each individual wants their own claim to fame and quickly forgets about anything and anyone else.
The solution would be to to all come together and work together on one project cobining our talents then when we are big we then branch out and show support equally all around but NOPE
sorry life just dont work out that way so much love to g20.net and to automotiveforums both there for us to further our knowledge wether it be about only g20's or all makes and models
casual
Couldnt of said it better I agree with you! :D
serguy
03-21-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by igor@af
email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm
I have a simple question.. is the link of your conversation with Brian edited in anyway?
Originally posted by igor@af
Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.
Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?
Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?
Originally posted by igor@af
To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:
-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.
I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?
Regards,
Kyle
email address. Obviously, I definately knew something fishy was happening now, and that is when the following happened:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/brian.htm
I have a simple question.. is the link of your conversation with Brian edited in anyway?
Originally posted by igor@af
Had he simply contacted me instead of trying to do everything behind my back, I assure you, that all issues that he had would have been resolved in a professional manner and all parties would have been kept happy. If the problems he mentioned were unresolvable by me, and they still poised such a big problem, then of course, I would have let G20.net go from AF, we did not sign any binding contract, nor would I have regretted letting them go, I would have understood his side and dealt with it like a normal reasonable human being.
Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?
Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?
Originally posted by igor@af
To address some of the issues that have never been brought up to me by the G20 administration before that are actually already almost solved:
-Server Downtime : Some modifications have been made and no more downtime should occur any time soon, in addition, we plan on maybe getting another server in close future.
-Search engine : last night, due to the server modifications, I was finally able to begin re-indexing all the posts on AF so that they are searchable. Not yet finished with it, but will be done within a day or two.
-As many of you are probably already aware, the attachments have been working again for several days now.
I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?
Regards,
Kyle
speediva
03-21-2002, 11:59 AM
I'll be honest here... the old G20.net meant nothing to me. The information on P10's was lacking immensely, so once I came to AF I never went back. Granted, I was very excited about the new G20.net and the new ownership, features, and fresh ideas. I am afraid to say that I am no longer excited about all that.
As moderators, there is a sort of kinship you ought to share with your motherboard. When you are able to turn your back and ignore everything that the host had ever done for you (which consists of getting all of us together) there must have been something wrong for quite a while.
Sure, AF has had a few problems. The popup ads aren't always fun. Not being able to upload pictures for a while had its downs, but there are remedies for these issues. Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.
I know that personally, I may go and visit the new site in question, however I know that I will remain at AF.com not only because I am a moderator and I have ties. It's because there is a giant community that exists even outside the walls of this G20 forum and the awesome sense of family that exists no matter what forum it is you decide to explore. I won't tell anyone what to do, nor will I tell anyone that they cannot do something. That would simply be outrageous. I only wish to express my personal feelings on the events that have herein taken place, and I want to clarify for everyone what my own personal intentions are with respect to everything.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me feel at home here and even given me sound advice. This G20 community has grown immensely even since I joined, and my only hope is to continue to watch it grow!
Most sincerely,
~tangie
As moderators, there is a sort of kinship you ought to share with your motherboard. When you are able to turn your back and ignore everything that the host had ever done for you (which consists of getting all of us together) there must have been something wrong for quite a while.
Sure, AF has had a few problems. The popup ads aren't always fun. Not being able to upload pictures for a while had its downs, but there are remedies for these issues. Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.
I know that personally, I may go and visit the new site in question, however I know that I will remain at AF.com not only because I am a moderator and I have ties. It's because there is a giant community that exists even outside the walls of this G20 forum and the awesome sense of family that exists no matter what forum it is you decide to explore. I won't tell anyone what to do, nor will I tell anyone that they cannot do something. That would simply be outrageous. I only wish to express my personal feelings on the events that have herein taken place, and I want to clarify for everyone what my own personal intentions are with respect to everything.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me feel at home here and even given me sound advice. This G20 community has grown immensely even since I joined, and my only hope is to continue to watch it grow!
Most sincerely,
~tangie
igor@af
03-21-2002, 12:15 PM
I have a simple question.. is the link of your conversation with Brian edited in anyway?
- No, it has not been touched in any way whatsoever, even though Brian would like to claim otherwise, since he has shown some aspects of him he didn't want others to see.
Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
-Without AF there would be no G20 forums that everyone claims is theirs. Surely, many members did originate from G20.net, but many also came from AF - the website recieves over 350,000 unique visitors per month, and some are G20 owners, who may not have even heard about G20.net before coming to AF.
As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?
I was never contacted by Brian or Jason in regards to any of these issues at any time.
Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?
-They cover the whole AF, and as mentioned both in my post and in the conversation, many are solved and others are on the verge of being solved.
I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?
-The attachments ARE working, have been for several days now. And yes, again, this is universal on the whole message board.
And - Thanks for your support Tangie! :)
- No, it has not been touched in any way whatsoever, even though Brian would like to claim otherwise, since he has shown some aspects of him he didn't want others to see.
Just curous.. but isn't what Brian stated correct about most (if not all) G20 users (in AF) came to the AF from G20.net?
-Without AF there would be no G20 forums that everyone claims is theirs. Surely, many members did originate from G20.net, but many also came from AF - the website recieves over 350,000 unique visitors per month, and some are G20 owners, who may not have even heard about G20.net before coming to AF.
As for the issues with the AF that have been stated, have you heard about them in the past?
I was never contacted by Brian or Jason in regards to any of these issues at any time.
Are these issues "only" with the G20 section of the AF? Or are they will the other areas of the AF too?
-They cover the whole AF, and as mentioned both in my post and in the conversation, many are solved and others are on the verge of being solved.
I wasn't for one aware the attachments weren't working.. and again, are you only having these issues with the g20 section, or are they with the other groups you have on AF?
-The attachments ARE working, have been for several days now. And yes, again, this is universal on the whole message board.
And - Thanks for your support Tangie! :)
howard_w13
03-21-2002, 12:34 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.:(
I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.:(
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-21-2002, 01:51 PM
Sad to hear such decietful news :( .... That's sad...People can be so decietful and untrustworthy at times, good thing you caught the bad vibes... Everything in life can turn on you, including those that you think are on your side... Well, Good luck w/ everything Igor... Hope evertything turns out well w/ the AF forum... :D
CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?! :huh: :huh:
Also: Not so sure on banning people from sites... Just an opinion...
HEY!! I know I'm A Newbie, but i'd be interested in becoming a moderator as well! :D
CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?! :huh: :huh:
Also: Not so sure on banning people from sites... Just an opinion...
HEY!! I know I'm A Newbie, but i'd be interested in becoming a moderator as well! :D
TIZAO
03-21-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by howard_w13
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.:( yea me too......and its kinda funny how I cant reply to the message! And I am interested in being a mod! Please let me get some info! Thank you.:alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka: :flash:
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I kinda had a fishy feeling when I got that private message from that "snowguy" about the new link.:huh:
It just greives me to see how some people can act this way. But sad to say, I guess that just the way it is in life.:( yea me too......and its kinda funny how I cant reply to the message! And I am interested in being a mod! Please let me get some info! Thank you.:alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka: :flash:
kris
03-21-2002, 03:12 PM
The posted converasation is the exact same one that was sent to me, during, and after they were talking. I can vaouch that it is authentic. If you want to see my copy, just let me know.
Now, for those of you who wish to be mods. PM me, and I will talk to Igor and we will see what we can do.
-Kris
Now, for those of you who wish to be mods. PM me, and I will talk to Igor and we will see what we can do.
-Kris
slickkedar
03-21-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by saturntangerine
I'll be honest here... the old G20.net meant nothing to me. The information on P10's was lacking immensely.
Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.
Most sincerely,
~tangie
I think the old G20.net was what got me first interested in doing more to my car, and I'm very greatful for that.
I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.
The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.
I'll be honest here... the old G20.net meant nothing to me. The information on P10's was lacking immensely.
Apparantly other people didn't realize that with a board the size of AF there will be faults every now and again. It will happen no matter where you are.
Most sincerely,
~tangie
I think the old G20.net was what got me first interested in doing more to my car, and I'm very greatful for that.
I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.
The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-21-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by slickkedar
I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.
The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.
VERY TRUE
I think one of the reasons they wanted to make their own forum is because of the size of AF. Its become so big that it is a problem. I see nothing wrong with them making a specific forum where the possibility of it getting too big is very unlikely. I wish them all the best.
The reason i plan to post there is because all the knowledgeable G20 owners are over there.
VERY TRUE
DVSNCYNIKL
03-21-2002, 04:02 PM
I don't own a G20 nor do I plan on getting one. So my .02 which I am about to say has nothing to do with the car.
People have a funny way of doing things nowadays and sometimes it's not for the better. Everyone is happy in the beginning, then as time passes, they change. That is with everything in life.
The actions taken by those Moderators was nothing short of dispicable. I don't have a problem with chasing your dreams or what have you. But to do it in this manner, deceitfully, then claiming to be mature about it is nothing short of ridiculous.
I've been a Moderator on AF for a long time, and this was not the only forum that I have been a Mod on. But I've always been the type of individual that says what is on my mind. I don't fear for backlash. The fact that they went about doing it without talking with Igor shows exactly how "Honest" they were.
I don't know either one of them. I can't even speak good or bad about anyone involved with the exception of Igor. But this act definitely does not provide me with a good comment to say. For Brian, I just have one question for you. Are you not able to stand up for yourself and hold your ground on a decision that you let yourself get manipulated so easily? I'm not trying to be offensive, but based on that conversation, it didn't seem to me that you put up much of a fight. Nothing would have been wrong to be the only one to disagree.
And on the issue of AF being so big. Anyone here who honestly believes that their forums won't get big is fooling themselves. What are they gonna do, deny people the right to register when they feel that the forums are getting to big. The whole point and eventually they will realize is, money is going to be needed to run it, and unless they are filthy rich, it won't last long. This cycle repeats itself in every forum. There are some small forums out there without a doubt, but even those forums run to a problem now and then. Those who choose to let themselves to be lead, so be it.
Now I am not going to knock them for trying what they want to do. But at least be man enough to come forward and say what has to be said without being sneaky. You get no respect doing it otherwise.
DVS
People have a funny way of doing things nowadays and sometimes it's not for the better. Everyone is happy in the beginning, then as time passes, they change. That is with everything in life.
The actions taken by those Moderators was nothing short of dispicable. I don't have a problem with chasing your dreams or what have you. But to do it in this manner, deceitfully, then claiming to be mature about it is nothing short of ridiculous.
I've been a Moderator on AF for a long time, and this was not the only forum that I have been a Mod on. But I've always been the type of individual that says what is on my mind. I don't fear for backlash. The fact that they went about doing it without talking with Igor shows exactly how "Honest" they were.
I don't know either one of them. I can't even speak good or bad about anyone involved with the exception of Igor. But this act definitely does not provide me with a good comment to say. For Brian, I just have one question for you. Are you not able to stand up for yourself and hold your ground on a decision that you let yourself get manipulated so easily? I'm not trying to be offensive, but based on that conversation, it didn't seem to me that you put up much of a fight. Nothing would have been wrong to be the only one to disagree.
And on the issue of AF being so big. Anyone here who honestly believes that their forums won't get big is fooling themselves. What are they gonna do, deny people the right to register when they feel that the forums are getting to big. The whole point and eventually they will realize is, money is going to be needed to run it, and unless they are filthy rich, it won't last long. This cycle repeats itself in every forum. There are some small forums out there without a doubt, but even those forums run to a problem now and then. Those who choose to let themselves to be lead, so be it.
Now I am not going to knock them for trying what they want to do. But at least be man enough to come forward and say what has to be said without being sneaky. You get no respect doing it otherwise.
DVS
Mike.Com
03-21-2002, 05:50 PM
"Stealing Members?"
"...you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish."
Come on guys...you're equating the people that post on this forum to objects you possess. The people that post on this forum are human beings, able to think, process information and make proper decisions. Because I joined AF does not mean I belong to them; because I knew about AF only from G20.net does not mean G20.net owns me. I will look at both places and I will return to the place the best suits my needs.
When given another option that is better than the current, people will change to that option. If you find competition, you should concentrate on what makes your product better to keep people from leaving.
If the intent of G20.net is to "steal" members from AF then they will fail. If the intent of G20.net is to create a nice forum where people can share thier interest in G20's then they will succeed. The bottom line is that people will go where their needs are met. G20.net can e-mail me all they want, but if their site is crappy then I'm not going to post on it.
It's not like people cannot go to both AF and G20net. I'm going to go check both to find out what information I need. Naturally, the one with more information will be the one I visit more. Who will it be? Time will tell.
:cool:
"...you are free to leave the AF G20 forums if you wish."
Come on guys...you're equating the people that post on this forum to objects you possess. The people that post on this forum are human beings, able to think, process information and make proper decisions. Because I joined AF does not mean I belong to them; because I knew about AF only from G20.net does not mean G20.net owns me. I will look at both places and I will return to the place the best suits my needs.
When given another option that is better than the current, people will change to that option. If you find competition, you should concentrate on what makes your product better to keep people from leaving.
If the intent of G20.net is to "steal" members from AF then they will fail. If the intent of G20.net is to create a nice forum where people can share thier interest in G20's then they will succeed. The bottom line is that people will go where their needs are met. G20.net can e-mail me all they want, but if their site is crappy then I'm not going to post on it.
It's not like people cannot go to both AF and G20net. I'm going to go check both to find out what information I need. Naturally, the one with more information will be the one I visit more. Who will it be? Time will tell.
:cool:
igor@af
03-21-2002, 05:59 PM
FYI: After Brian was banned last night, he came back, managed to register another entity, and sent identical/close to identical PMs about the new G20 message board to about 40 people.
slickkedar
03-21-2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by igor@af
FYI: After Brian was banned last night, he came back, managed to register another entity, and sent identical/close to identical PMs about the new G20 message board to about 40 people.
People should have the option of something else if it is out there, and if it is going to get them the information they want. I'm glad i got an email from him telling me about it, cuz I'm not here to take sides, im here to get information on my car. And if his site can get me more information on what I want, I'm gonna go there.
FYI: After Brian was banned last night, he came back, managed to register another entity, and sent identical/close to identical PMs about the new G20 message board to about 40 people.
People should have the option of something else if it is out there, and if it is going to get them the information they want. I'm glad i got an email from him telling me about it, cuz I'm not here to take sides, im here to get information on my car. And if his site can get me more information on what I want, I'm gonna go there.
igor@af
03-21-2002, 06:34 PM
It's something called SPAM :)
primera man
03-21-2002, 06:48 PM
Im at a loss for words that it has come to this. I had no idea that this was going on among the G20 threads apart from Brian's link about the new site starting on 1st April.
I think its good that G20 net will be finally up and running with info on our cars that is way overdue.
But why it has been done like this makes me wonder why it was done.
For 1 whole year the threads have been our main sourse of info and hooking up with other people, and Igor and AF have done a awesome job on this.
True the g20 threads are getting huge, but thats due to the endless amount of repeated question getting asked over and over about "Clearing lights, what springs to use, Eyebrows, will these rims fit etc etc" which IMO has stopped me coming here to G20 as i get sick of seeing them being asked. More time should be spent reading the threads.
I really see no reason to have a forum at G20 Net as its all hear(info etc) already. Igor is working on the problem's that we have had and AF is by far the best Automotive forum around.
Most people here dont look out side the G20 threads and see just what a huge place this is.
I must say im disappointed how this has happened
I think its good that G20 net will be finally up and running with info on our cars that is way overdue.
But why it has been done like this makes me wonder why it was done.
For 1 whole year the threads have been our main sourse of info and hooking up with other people, and Igor and AF have done a awesome job on this.
True the g20 threads are getting huge, but thats due to the endless amount of repeated question getting asked over and over about "Clearing lights, what springs to use, Eyebrows, will these rims fit etc etc" which IMO has stopped me coming here to G20 as i get sick of seeing them being asked. More time should be spent reading the threads.
I really see no reason to have a forum at G20 Net as its all hear(info etc) already. Igor is working on the problem's that we have had and AF is by far the best Automotive forum around.
Most people here dont look out side the G20 threads and see just what a huge place this is.
I must say im disappointed how this has happened
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-21-2002, 07:37 PM
I see no problem in the new G20.net, i was actaully and still am excited that the new web site is being launched... But the way to lauch it was totally uncalled for, there could have been a million different ways to approach the problems, concerns and questions that Brain or others might have had...
And i'm not taking sides, cause i think it was false for igor to ban brian and others from AF... but thats just an opinion, that was probably the only choice that igor had because brian was supposedly taking members...
But how can we really say taking members? We can't, people have thier own decisions, no one can munipulate one another, unless it is approached in a way of munipulation(and if so why approach it in such a manner?)... It would have been alot better just posting up the website like it was done in the beginning, it honestly would have had the same effect in my opinion... and if anything, ask before you start sendin PM's to everyone... that sucks...
Honestly i was still going to register with g20.net even if no one asked me, it's still a web site that helps with our cars, and the same for AF, but it doesn't mean i'm going to leave either?! It's basically the same freggin' thing! And it's not like anyone is gonna die going to 2 websites for information...If you think about it, it's actually an advantage for everyone, if you can't find something that you wanna find out on one web site, go on the other and vise versa!
I know i'm not an OG in AF, and i don't know everyone personally, but it's saad to see everyone that got along so well go against each other...
We got a good thing going for the AF forum, and a good thing coming with g20.net... Now why let some differences totally rip everything apart?
I just hope both sides take alittle time to think, and in the end work out the differences... This dispute has left me amazed and disappointed....
Everyone is left in a F-up and disappointing situation.... Damn! why does something good always have to end up in DRAMA!?!?
Peace (Literally)
And i'm not taking sides, cause i think it was false for igor to ban brian and others from AF... but thats just an opinion, that was probably the only choice that igor had because brian was supposedly taking members...
But how can we really say taking members? We can't, people have thier own decisions, no one can munipulate one another, unless it is approached in a way of munipulation(and if so why approach it in such a manner?)... It would have been alot better just posting up the website like it was done in the beginning, it honestly would have had the same effect in my opinion... and if anything, ask before you start sendin PM's to everyone... that sucks...
Honestly i was still going to register with g20.net even if no one asked me, it's still a web site that helps with our cars, and the same for AF, but it doesn't mean i'm going to leave either?! It's basically the same freggin' thing! And it's not like anyone is gonna die going to 2 websites for information...If you think about it, it's actually an advantage for everyone, if you can't find something that you wanna find out on one web site, go on the other and vise versa!
I know i'm not an OG in AF, and i don't know everyone personally, but it's saad to see everyone that got along so well go against each other...
We got a good thing going for the AF forum, and a good thing coming with g20.net... Now why let some differences totally rip everything apart?
I just hope both sides take alittle time to think, and in the end work out the differences... This dispute has left me amazed and disappointed....
Everyone is left in a F-up and disappointing situation.... Damn! why does something good always have to end up in DRAMA!?!?
Peace (Literally)
p_r_i_m_e_r_a
03-21-2002, 07:39 PM
All I can say is I love my P10, and always will. IT COMES FIRST.
May the party with the most Nissan knowlege and best intentions win!
May the party with the most Nissan knowlege and best intentions win!
TIZAO
03-21-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by p_r_i_m_e_r_a
All I can say is I love my P10, and always will. IT COMES FIRST.
May the party with the most Nissan knowlege and best intentions win! WTF do you realize you just said something of no importance to this subject>!!! LOL! what were you thinkin! :alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka: :flash:
All I can say is I love my P10, and always will. IT COMES FIRST.
May the party with the most Nissan knowlege and best intentions win! WTF do you realize you just said something of no importance to this subject>!!! LOL! what were you thinkin! :alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka: :flash:
ViEt-G20
03-21-2002, 07:58 PM
im actually glad that g20.net is up and running with a forums section of its own... AF.com has been very slow and ive been getting tired of it. i dont see why all of you guys are mad because g20.net is where pretty much everyone in the g20 family came from. not many people know about AF.com and the g20 section is pretty much the only section that has a lot of useful information and is getting this site HITS. why shouldnt g20.net have thier own forums?... all the g20 people heard about AF.com from there. so its whatever now... i guess with more competition, things get better.
TIZAO
03-21-2002, 08:04 PM
People are mad because of the way it went down!:alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka:
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-21-2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by TIZAO
People are mad because of the way it went down!:alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka:
Exactly...
People are mad because of the way it went down!:alien: :bloated: :licker: :smoka:
Exactly...
P10DET
03-21-2002, 08:41 PM
I sort of hate to contribute to this thread, but I'd like to add a bit of reason to all sides.
First of all, I will tell all of you right now that I've been asked to be a part of the staff at G20.net, so if you want to think I'm biased, go ahead. I'm not, but I thought in fairness y'all should know.
Second, Igor and I had a discussion of the situation and I will freely admit that I think it could have been handled better.
That said, I was asked for my opinion of creating a dedicated forum at G20.net and we discussed the issues that have been discussed here. I agreed it was a good idea for a number of reasons.
As for the secrecy, I would have kept it quiet until it was ready to fly, but not out of any malice (either intended or just perceived), but rather out of the fact I personally try to keep things quiet until they are ready to go.
As for "stealing" members, I would not personally categorize it as such. I don't know the intentions, nor all of the conversations that may have occured in the past. My personal reasons for contacting members would have been to simple make people aware of the new forum there. As for the intentions of others, I cannot comment since I don't know their intentions.
So, I don't want to pass judgement on anyone. I certainly don't want to draw a line in the sand and label folks "we" and "them."
My two cents.
First of all, I will tell all of you right now that I've been asked to be a part of the staff at G20.net, so if you want to think I'm biased, go ahead. I'm not, but I thought in fairness y'all should know.
Second, Igor and I had a discussion of the situation and I will freely admit that I think it could have been handled better.
That said, I was asked for my opinion of creating a dedicated forum at G20.net and we discussed the issues that have been discussed here. I agreed it was a good idea for a number of reasons.
As for the secrecy, I would have kept it quiet until it was ready to fly, but not out of any malice (either intended or just perceived), but rather out of the fact I personally try to keep things quiet until they are ready to go.
As for "stealing" members, I would not personally categorize it as such. I don't know the intentions, nor all of the conversations that may have occured in the past. My personal reasons for contacting members would have been to simple make people aware of the new forum there. As for the intentions of others, I cannot comment since I don't know their intentions.
So, I don't want to pass judgement on anyone. I certainly don't want to draw a line in the sand and label folks "we" and "them."
My two cents.
bump909
03-21-2002, 09:20 PM
i think it's clear you all know how to make a big deal out of nothing. this is worse than a soap opera. what's done is done. blow your nose one more time and get on with your life. sheesh. :rolleyes:
FlossinPrimera
03-21-2002, 10:31 PM
I guess that it is a good thing that I have been out of the loop for a few days, but I gather that there has been some very negative happenings. It has been my experience, with message boards, that it is very difficult to mass a loyal following. I also think that it was petty to leave in that manner, I also think that is was childish to not discuss this before it happend. No, I don't think that 99.9% of the people on the G20 forum on AF got there through G20.net. I also strongly believe that G20.net hasn't done anything for AF. Everything that was on G20.net could be found by searching the internet for 5 minutes. I hope that all you AFers agree with me. I also am willing to stand up and be a mod for the G20 forum.
Peace
Peace
G2002
03-21-2002, 10:47 PM
Man i duno how old all you moderaters are, but please do something accordingly. Im 17 and i tell you i could have figured out a better way to handle this to bad i didnt know anything untill today. First off AF is cool i have gotten so much stuff not from G20's only but for evry other car I got 2, but secondly the only way I knew about it was throught G20.net. Neither side really should even bother. AF is still AF and always will be AF and if G20.net wants to try its hand at a fourm let them, there are tuns of fourms out there, to me it sounds more like a napster deal, who owns what and who's got rights to what. G20.net shouldnt advertise on here, thats like mcdonalds advertising the big mac inside buger king, but they didnt realy have to tell igor what they were doin. I know igor doesnt want them to advertise here and banned them but think about it Igor with all this that just went on, G20.net got so much advertising at your expense you know almost alll the people on here are gonna check it out at least once. Why not just burry the hatchet (as my dad would say) and leave it where it is, or work something out, cuase personally i would love to see a unity between the 2 becuase then we can unite all G20 lovers and have a hella information and isnt that what were all here for. Come on be friends people theres to much real hate in this world to worry about this stuff. Thanks and please dont kill me in the responses.
igor@af
03-21-2002, 11:20 PM
When I first posted this topic, I knew very well the consequences that the g20 forum will get much exposure from it, and that many people will go visit it. I am not worried about their g20 forums getting traffic at all.
The reasons I posted what I did:
1) To show what really happened, because otherwise I am sure that Brian and them would make up some more lies [other than the current one, such as that I 'modified' the conversation log with Brian].
2) To display my concern with not the fact what happened [they started their own message board] but in what a dirty way it was done. Again, the fact that they wanted to start their own message board is not a problem with me whatsoever.
The reason Brian and Jason were banned:
I did not want them coming back here and spreading their propaganda that they are currently spreading on tgheir forum. Such as
We're sorry the change came so dramatically and rapidly. We did not intend for things to work out this way. There could have been a transition period and/or compromise but due to the immature and unprofessional work ethic of AutmotiveForums.com and its administrator we were forced into an immediate change.
and
It's an edited log of our conversation last night. Some of the stuff added in there is rather bizare.
Well, enough of all of this :) I've had too much fun with it, and am still smiling at how dishonest some people can be... simply ridiculous :)
BTW, notice that right now AF is much faster with 630 people online than G20.net with 20... so much for their great solution for problems.. :p
The reasons I posted what I did:
1) To show what really happened, because otherwise I am sure that Brian and them would make up some more lies [other than the current one, such as that I 'modified' the conversation log with Brian].
2) To display my concern with not the fact what happened [they started their own message board] but in what a dirty way it was done. Again, the fact that they wanted to start their own message board is not a problem with me whatsoever.
The reason Brian and Jason were banned:
I did not want them coming back here and spreading their propaganda that they are currently spreading on tgheir forum. Such as
We're sorry the change came so dramatically and rapidly. We did not intend for things to work out this way. There could have been a transition period and/or compromise but due to the immature and unprofessional work ethic of AutmotiveForums.com and its administrator we were forced into an immediate change.
and
It's an edited log of our conversation last night. Some of the stuff added in there is rather bizare.
Well, enough of all of this :) I've had too much fun with it, and am still smiling at how dishonest some people can be... simply ridiculous :)
BTW, notice that right now AF is much faster with 630 people online than G20.net with 20... so much for their great solution for problems.. :p
Primal SMX
03-21-2002, 11:33 PM
Honestly ... i will sign up at G20.net, but stay here as well. I dont know any of the parties personally but i presume all have helped me in the past. Like it has already been said, AF is AF and always will be AF just as G20.net will be there as well. I will use both. But it is real sad to see it go down this way, no matter who was at fault etc. AF has been and will be a real help and great place to come and has plenty of history to keep newbies informed, G20.net is the new place that we can visit and learn, not that it takes anything away from AF. Good luck to brian and co. and good luck also to AF as i'm going to use both to MY advantage.
No disrespect to anybody.
Just keep the good things going please!
Peace
No disrespect to anybody.
Just keep the good things going please!
Peace
dre
03-21-2002, 11:54 PM
wow...the things you miss after a few days of not paying attention.
And it seems like a little late to be settin up a new forum, when everything anyone will probably ever discuss about g20s is already here.
It's also a little late with the g35s showing up at dealers already...:confused:
And it seems like a little late to be settin up a new forum, when everything anyone will probably ever discuss about g20s is already here.
It's also a little late with the g35s showing up at dealers already...:confused:
boingo82
03-22-2002, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by G2002
First off AF is cool i have gotten so much stuff not from G20's only but for evry other car I got 2.
We all have. I am eternally grateful not only to Igor but to all of the posters on AF for helping me with my questions and giving me something to do when work is slow. One thing I am very surprised at is the general additude over on the G20 forums, as though every one of them was entitled to the services on AF. Granted there have been some probems, such as the server being down and the search not working, but if it was that bad, those users would not have used the site.
Originally posted by G2002
G20.net shouldnt advertise on here, thats like mcdonalds advertising the big mac inside buger king, but they didnt realy have to tell igor what they were doin. I know igor doesnt want them to advertise here and banned them but think about it Igor with all this that just went on, G20.net got so much advertising at your expense you know almost alll the people on here are gonna check it out at least once.
As far as I could determine, G20.net were the ones who demanded that their advertisment be removed. It was after that point that Igor banned them.
As I see it, the problem was not that some users started up a competitive site, or even that these users were moderators. The problem was that they were actively recruiting people to their forum via use of AF. It would have been a different situation had they advertised the forum on their own site, which was in turn linked to AF. I do not have my user agreement in front of me but I'm fairly sure it specifies that the forums are not to be used in such a manner, just as it would be unacceptable for someone to post advertisments within their messages for a commercial, rather than personal purpose.
Originally posted by G2002
Why not just burry the hatchet (as my dad would say) and leave it where it is, or work something out, cuase personally i would love to see a unity between the 2 becuase then we can unite all G20 lovers and have a hella information and isnt that what were all here for. Come on be friends people theres to much real hate in this world to worry about this stuff. Thanks and please dont kill me in the responses.
I think the problem lies within the fact that this was a direct violation of the user agreement, and as such I believe Igor probably has legal grounds to sue.
First off AF is cool i have gotten so much stuff not from G20's only but for evry other car I got 2.
We all have. I am eternally grateful not only to Igor but to all of the posters on AF for helping me with my questions and giving me something to do when work is slow. One thing I am very surprised at is the general additude over on the G20 forums, as though every one of them was entitled to the services on AF. Granted there have been some probems, such as the server being down and the search not working, but if it was that bad, those users would not have used the site.
Originally posted by G2002
G20.net shouldnt advertise on here, thats like mcdonalds advertising the big mac inside buger king, but they didnt realy have to tell igor what they were doin. I know igor doesnt want them to advertise here and banned them but think about it Igor with all this that just went on, G20.net got so much advertising at your expense you know almost alll the people on here are gonna check it out at least once.
As far as I could determine, G20.net were the ones who demanded that their advertisment be removed. It was after that point that Igor banned them.
As I see it, the problem was not that some users started up a competitive site, or even that these users were moderators. The problem was that they were actively recruiting people to their forum via use of AF. It would have been a different situation had they advertised the forum on their own site, which was in turn linked to AF. I do not have my user agreement in front of me but I'm fairly sure it specifies that the forums are not to be used in such a manner, just as it would be unacceptable for someone to post advertisments within their messages for a commercial, rather than personal purpose.
Originally posted by G2002
Why not just burry the hatchet (as my dad would say) and leave it where it is, or work something out, cuase personally i would love to see a unity between the 2 becuase then we can unite all G20 lovers and have a hella information and isnt that what were all here for. Come on be friends people theres to much real hate in this world to worry about this stuff. Thanks and please dont kill me in the responses.
I think the problem lies within the fact that this was a direct violation of the user agreement, and as such I believe Igor probably has legal grounds to sue.
Jay!
03-22-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by boingo82
I do not have my user agreement in front of me but I'm fairly sure it specifies that the forums are not to be used in such a manner, just as it would be unacceptable for someone to post advertisments within their messages for a commercial, rather than personal purpose.
...
I think the problem lies within the fact that this was a direct violation of the user agreement, and as such I believe Igor probably has legal grounds to sue. Just FYI, 'cause they're hard to find sometimes...
AF Guidelines (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html)
I do not have my user agreement in front of me but I'm fairly sure it specifies that the forums are not to be used in such a manner, just as it would be unacceptable for someone to post advertisments within their messages for a commercial, rather than personal purpose.
...
I think the problem lies within the fact that this was a direct violation of the user agreement, and as such I believe Igor probably has legal grounds to sue. Just FYI, 'cause they're hard to find sometimes...
AF Guidelines (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html)
boingo82
03-22-2002, 02:22 AM
Thanks, Jay, I had tried to find 'em, and couldn't.
JasIzBac
03-22-2002, 03:10 AM
i checked out the G20.net site yesterday, and even though i came to know of AF through G20.net after reading the conversation and the posts, i'm sticking with AF. I feel "at home" here.
DVSNCYNIKL
03-22-2002, 08:45 AM
Look at this guys!
Click here! (http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69)
Now who's really the immature person. This just goes to show you exactly what some people do when your back is turned. They claim to have been professional or non-malice, yet they talk all this negativity about AF and Igor.
So I have to say one thing to all G20 members:
No one here including myself is obligating you to stay. I believe we are all here for one thing, to share information and our love of cars. We don't force you to act a certain way, but we ask that you respect our rules on AF so that there is some form of decorum. With that said, if you really feel that AF is too much for you, by all means, leave. I come here not only to share but enjoy the good company that has been given to me. I've met some very interesting people that in person, probably would have never had the opportunity to meet.
You come here of your own free will and love of cars. When we say that you are a part of AF, it is not outright saying we own you like property, as someone said previously(To that person that made that comment, I know you should be able to understand what was implied by that statement.), it is implying that you are a loyal member of AF.
In the time that I have been here, I've seen many people come and go. For whatever reasons they left, they left on good terms. Some were banned for some violation. But, one thing I can say and I speak for myself, no one has left because they didn't "Fit in" with the rest of us. I treat every single person on here with the same amount of respect that I expect from them. Unless you prove to me otherwise, that is what you can expect from me.
So to end this, for those of you who choose to stay with AF, I commend you on your loyalty to AF and the AF name. To those who choose to leave because they feel Jason and Brian are what made AF, then you know your way out. For those who believe that they have more to offer you than AF does, please, don't come back here as we don't need you.
Thank you,
Respectfully
DVS
Click here! (http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69)
Now who's really the immature person. This just goes to show you exactly what some people do when your back is turned. They claim to have been professional or non-malice, yet they talk all this negativity about AF and Igor.
So I have to say one thing to all G20 members:
No one here including myself is obligating you to stay. I believe we are all here for one thing, to share information and our love of cars. We don't force you to act a certain way, but we ask that you respect our rules on AF so that there is some form of decorum. With that said, if you really feel that AF is too much for you, by all means, leave. I come here not only to share but enjoy the good company that has been given to me. I've met some very interesting people that in person, probably would have never had the opportunity to meet.
You come here of your own free will and love of cars. When we say that you are a part of AF, it is not outright saying we own you like property, as someone said previously(To that person that made that comment, I know you should be able to understand what was implied by that statement.), it is implying that you are a loyal member of AF.
In the time that I have been here, I've seen many people come and go. For whatever reasons they left, they left on good terms. Some were banned for some violation. But, one thing I can say and I speak for myself, no one has left because they didn't "Fit in" with the rest of us. I treat every single person on here with the same amount of respect that I expect from them. Unless you prove to me otherwise, that is what you can expect from me.
So to end this, for those of you who choose to stay with AF, I commend you on your loyalty to AF and the AF name. To those who choose to leave because they feel Jason and Brian are what made AF, then you know your way out. For those who believe that they have more to offer you than AF does, please, don't come back here as we don't need you.
Thank you,
Respectfully
DVS
NismoPC
03-22-2002, 09:40 AM
G20's guys/gals! Remember G20's. Let's talk G20's.
I think this can and will go on for quite a while and there really is not a resolution that will easily present it self.
So, with that said...
...let's talk 'bout our cars again! Please!
I think this can and will go on for quite a while and there really is not a resolution that will easily present it self.
So, with that said...
...let's talk 'bout our cars again! Please!
2002G20Racer
03-22-2002, 09:48 AM
I wish it could have all worked out but I guess not... I will continue to use the Automotive Forums until it falls apart or lose interest in cars (which will never happen). But I will also take advantage of the new resources that can be found on G20.net. I feel that I would rather not chose which side to be on but rather just be on both forums.
Mrcoilover
03-22-2002, 10:03 AM
I really didn't feel like reading that whole conversation so I don't know all the details.... so basically MrCoil is gonna have to lay da smack down. Hey yo, people need to stop hatin on each other. AF G20 and G20net are both cool so I'ma have my cake and eat it too.
SkylinesKillAll
03-22-2002, 10:16 AM
ok im not gonna read everyones response, so im just gonna say what im gonna say. i was here before G20.net came here, so i obviously didnt come here because of them. i also think that i deserve to be a mod b/c ive been in these forums the longest.
serguy
03-22-2002, 12:07 PM
Is there any chance we can just drop all this?
Let's just get back to G20 content please..
I'm going to post the same thing to the G20.net forum.
-Kyle
Let's just get back to G20 content please..
I'm going to post the same thing to the G20.net forum.
-Kyle
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-22-2002, 12:42 PM
Hey All,
I think it's time to stop the madness and start talkin' about our rides again, alot of people got to express they're feelings, including myself... But no matter what we say, nothing can be done... It's up to the people involved directly in the bad situation.
I feel that igor has moved on an delt w/ the problem in a well mannered way, if there is anymore action to be done it would be on the part of G20.net to grow up and apologize...(sorry, personal comment).
But the way i see it, either way, we have "LOYAL G20 owners" that care about their cars enough to come on both sites to share their opinions and knowledge. Let's let the people who started this mess finish it in thier own way, whether it be joining forces w/ us or continue to be rebelious and childish (sorry again for the personal comment :D), we're still gonna be here no matter what, AF and all....
So back to the lecture at hand, We talk about our cars and let the questions take demand... :D
Peace
M.C. Turbo...J/P
I think it's time to stop the madness and start talkin' about our rides again, alot of people got to express they're feelings, including myself... But no matter what we say, nothing can be done... It's up to the people involved directly in the bad situation.
I feel that igor has moved on an delt w/ the problem in a well mannered way, if there is anymore action to be done it would be on the part of G20.net to grow up and apologize...(sorry, personal comment).
But the way i see it, either way, we have "LOYAL G20 owners" that care about their cars enough to come on both sites to share their opinions and knowledge. Let's let the people who started this mess finish it in thier own way, whether it be joining forces w/ us or continue to be rebelious and childish (sorry again for the personal comment :D), we're still gonna be here no matter what, AF and all....
So back to the lecture at hand, We talk about our cars and let the questions take demand... :D
Peace
M.C. Turbo...J/P
Yahnozha
03-22-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by serguy
Is there any chance we can just drop all this?
Ditto....its all a matter of opinion, we now have a couple of places to go for the information that is sought after...
Props to Igor for having this in the first place, props to the community that supports it, props to those that want to make change in this world and make it a better place...Ill have my cake and eat it too...youll see me in both places contributing and asking questions....
Is there any chance we can just drop all this?
Ditto....its all a matter of opinion, we now have a couple of places to go for the information that is sought after...
Props to Igor for having this in the first place, props to the community that supports it, props to those that want to make change in this world and make it a better place...Ill have my cake and eat it too...youll see me in both places contributing and asking questions....
killick
03-22-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by ViEt-G20
why shouldnt g20.net have thier own forums?... all the g20 people heard about AF.com from there.
Not me. Did a search for G20 on google and came straight here.
Like others, I'll check out the new site and see what's over there... maybe register if I think it's worth my while. But not unless it offers something above and beyond what's available elsewhere... and by that I mean content. If it's just another forum, then ... well... it's just another forum and I don't need to bother.
Cheers.
why shouldnt g20.net have thier own forums?... all the g20 people heard about AF.com from there.
Not me. Did a search for G20 on google and came straight here.
Like others, I'll check out the new site and see what's over there... maybe register if I think it's worth my while. But not unless it offers something above and beyond what's available elsewhere... and by that I mean content. If it's just another forum, then ... well... it's just another forum and I don't need to bother.
Cheers.
CanadianG
03-23-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by G2002
AF is still AF and always will be AF and if G20.net wants to try its hand at a fourm let them, there are tuns of fourms out there, to me it sounds more like a napster deal, who owns what and who's got rights to what. G20.net shouldnt advertise on here, thats like mcdonalds advertising the big mac inside buger king, but they didnt realy have to tell igor what they were doin. I know igor doesnt want them to advertise here and banned them but think about it Igor with all this that just went on, G20.net got so much advertising at your expense you know almost alll the people on here are gonna check it out at least once. .
Thats why Igor banned em!
I back up his actions and if I was in his position I would do the exact same thing. Only one thing I dont think that Af and G20.net should try and solve thire differences simply for what has occured here. HOw would you try and consolidate a problem when a business movement cannot be conducted properly. I dont think that there should be any form of resolution.
1 question and a comment for Igor:
1)Is there money in this web hosting stuff? Obviously you must get paid to run the forum right? There must be other motives besides serving the G20.net owners. I have no idea how this internet stuff works and was always wondering why anyone would invest so much time without gettin something in return besides respect? Is there enough money as in to call this a f/t job or is it like spare money p/t? Do you get paid only through advertisments(pop-ups and such?) and do you have to find people to sponsor you?
I did hear about the AF from G20.net that doesnt mean I owe them any favours. I will be checkin out the new forum but I aint leavin the AF
AF is still AF and always will be AF and if G20.net wants to try its hand at a fourm let them, there are tuns of fourms out there, to me it sounds more like a napster deal, who owns what and who's got rights to what. G20.net shouldnt advertise on here, thats like mcdonalds advertising the big mac inside buger king, but they didnt realy have to tell igor what they were doin. I know igor doesnt want them to advertise here and banned them but think about it Igor with all this that just went on, G20.net got so much advertising at your expense you know almost alll the people on here are gonna check it out at least once. .
Thats why Igor banned em!
I back up his actions and if I was in his position I would do the exact same thing. Only one thing I dont think that Af and G20.net should try and solve thire differences simply for what has occured here. HOw would you try and consolidate a problem when a business movement cannot be conducted properly. I dont think that there should be any form of resolution.
1 question and a comment for Igor:
1)Is there money in this web hosting stuff? Obviously you must get paid to run the forum right? There must be other motives besides serving the G20.net owners. I have no idea how this internet stuff works and was always wondering why anyone would invest so much time without gettin something in return besides respect? Is there enough money as in to call this a f/t job or is it like spare money p/t? Do you get paid only through advertisments(pop-ups and such?) and do you have to find people to sponsor you?
I did hear about the AF from G20.net that doesnt mean I owe them any favours. I will be checkin out the new forum but I aint leavin the AF
igor@af
03-23-2002, 07:55 PM
To answer your question:
My motivation is/was to make the biggest website where all auto enthusiasts could share information and spend time. This was why I offered G20.net to sponsor the AF G20 forum.
Running a website is expensive, go to any hosting website and look at their rates, AF is on a dedicated server [meaning it's on a server all by itself, whereas, most of the sites on the web are all crammed up on a server, usually hundreds and sometimes thousands of websites on one server] and what costs money on the web is bandwidth - the amount of data that is transfered from the server to the viewers.
I am a capitalist and as everyone knows, each individual's desire to make money [called profit motivation] is what drives capitalism. In the end, that is what I am here for, just like anyone else would be :)
So basically, this is a win-win situation - Thousands of auto enthusiasts benefit from all of this, and I am rewarded for my idea and the hours I spend on it everyday.
But I will be totally honest with you, all of this G20 crap that has happened is not that much a monetary concern to me but rather the morality of it - the way it was conducted and then how they turn around and lie to everyone to make it seem like I am the devil and they're just innocent little people that didn't do anything wrong.
Just wanted to mention something about popup ads - as much as I would prefer that people are not so selfish and expect everything on the internet for free, that is obviously not the case :) [Hey, I am not fond of popups myself]. If you see a popup on AF, it is an accident, AF uses an advertising network called DoubleClick, and they have a very stupid system of putting advertising on the websites that has not yet been reviewed by those representing the website [me]. So, if I was making sure that they're not adding any popup campaigns to AF 24/7, there would never be a single popup, but that is obviously not possible :) So the popups that you do see on AF will only be there between the time that the campaign for it is added to AF by DoubleClick and the time I realize the 'bastards' have added more campaigns to AF.
I usually check for newly added campaigns every morning and filter any popups that they have added. But they still add more campaigns during the day. So usually, I also ban any popups from showing up on AF in the evening as well. Still as you understand, there is a time gap that can not be avoided. I am strongly looking for an alternative way, so that every advertisement that shows up on AF is first reviewed by me.
My motivation is/was to make the biggest website where all auto enthusiasts could share information and spend time. This was why I offered G20.net to sponsor the AF G20 forum.
Running a website is expensive, go to any hosting website and look at their rates, AF is on a dedicated server [meaning it's on a server all by itself, whereas, most of the sites on the web are all crammed up on a server, usually hundreds and sometimes thousands of websites on one server] and what costs money on the web is bandwidth - the amount of data that is transfered from the server to the viewers.
I am a capitalist and as everyone knows, each individual's desire to make money [called profit motivation] is what drives capitalism. In the end, that is what I am here for, just like anyone else would be :)
So basically, this is a win-win situation - Thousands of auto enthusiasts benefit from all of this, and I am rewarded for my idea and the hours I spend on it everyday.
But I will be totally honest with you, all of this G20 crap that has happened is not that much a monetary concern to me but rather the morality of it - the way it was conducted and then how they turn around and lie to everyone to make it seem like I am the devil and they're just innocent little people that didn't do anything wrong.
Just wanted to mention something about popup ads - as much as I would prefer that people are not so selfish and expect everything on the internet for free, that is obviously not the case :) [Hey, I am not fond of popups myself]. If you see a popup on AF, it is an accident, AF uses an advertising network called DoubleClick, and they have a very stupid system of putting advertising on the websites that has not yet been reviewed by those representing the website [me]. So, if I was making sure that they're not adding any popup campaigns to AF 24/7, there would never be a single popup, but that is obviously not possible :) So the popups that you do see on AF will only be there between the time that the campaign for it is added to AF by DoubleClick and the time I realize the 'bastards' have added more campaigns to AF.
I usually check for newly added campaigns every morning and filter any popups that they have added. But they still add more campaigns during the day. So usually, I also ban any popups from showing up on AF in the evening as well. Still as you understand, there is a time gap that can not be avoided. I am strongly looking for an alternative way, so that every advertisement that shows up on AF is first reviewed by me.
kris
03-23-2002, 08:01 PM
http://www.automotiveforums.com/kris/kris/+junk/cliff%2520notes.jpg
Haha, just kidding. :silly2:
We're here for you, and popups don't really bother me. In fact, I was setup with a credit card by one, with low interest. :D
Haha, just kidding. :silly2:
We're here for you, and popups don't really bother me. In fact, I was setup with a credit card by one, with low interest. :D
CanadianG
03-23-2002, 08:21 PM
Pop ups dont bother me either. I try not to pay attention to them and am actually getting use to them.
I wasn't trying to knock you on the capitalism stuff. all I was saying was that I have no idea how this website issh works(background) . Im just an end user. I am slowly picking up on the inner workings but I dont know that much about it. I was just curious
I wasn't trying to knock you on the capitalism stuff. all I was saying was that I have no idea how this website issh works(background) . Im just an end user. I am slowly picking up on the inner workings but I dont know that much about it. I was just curious
igor@af
03-23-2002, 08:35 PM
Oh I knew you didn't have any bad intentions with your post :)
stoneage_tech
03-24-2002, 01:50 PM
well that was a eye opener , i had went over to g20.net yesterday and registerd so i could get into the gallery and see some p-11 pics for some ideas i had for my 96 p-10 . i get over here today and find out i commited a act of treason goin over to the opposition like that . but seriously i looked around at there board and stuff and its too much change for me im staying put , i have been here eversince i came from yahoo clubs to escape the whole "yahoo groups" thing. i learned about g20.net after i got here and when i first went over it was all p-11 so i really never visted since it didnt apply to what i have . this is the best source of info out there for my car and some very nice people to deal with not to mention i can go to other car boards and post questions about stuff im working on or help someone else out . so if theres anything i can do to return the favor let me know . dont know much about board stuff so i probably wouldnt make a good monerator but if your desperate let me know how to do it and i will .... :smoker2:
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2026