Major Differences and other peoples opinion...
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G20TurboVisionCrew
03-05-2002, 12:33 PM
Well, as most of you know, i am planning to do an engine swap to my ride, at first i was thinking of just slapping on a custom turbo, but then realized i got lots and lots of mods to do with the Hp i'm planning to push...
I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things. First off i was planning to get the Gti-r Det, someone told me that it is excactly like the BB Det but just alittle beefier and it has a different turbo and manifold, but will fit the p11 just fine, then someone told me that that was wrong and that the BB Det is the way to go, because the engine fits exactly to the USM sr20de, and that it will produce more horsepower... Then another person told me that that was wrong information and said that the BB det manifold is too big and that there will have to be some more mods that have to be done in order to fit the BB, and the only reason why it produces more horses is that there is a larger turbo and manifold on the engine itself.... Thhheeeennn Someone else told me that that was wrong and that the GTI-r comes equipped with forged pistons,and other various things that make the gti-r a better overall engine, and that there will be alot less mods to actually fit the engine... Then i was told that the Gti-r only had cast-iron like the sr20de and that the BB comes equipped with the forged pistons, and other various things, and then someone told me that the gti-r and the BB were exactly the same engines and the only difference is the turbo manifold, and that the Gti-r came with individual oil jets.... MMAAAN i am confused...
Then after having my heart set on swapping engines, someone said that it would be alot better if i just slapped on a turbo, get forged pistons, intercooler, and some other internals, and that would be alot more reliable.....
What I am looking for is "the most reliable, 300-350 horses, best low end and high end, something that spools up fast, and something that will last......
Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry: :p
I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things. First off i was planning to get the Gti-r Det, someone told me that it is excactly like the BB Det but just alittle beefier and it has a different turbo and manifold, but will fit the p11 just fine, then someone told me that that was wrong and that the BB Det is the way to go, because the engine fits exactly to the USM sr20de, and that it will produce more horsepower... Then another person told me that that was wrong information and said that the BB det manifold is too big and that there will have to be some more mods that have to be done in order to fit the BB, and the only reason why it produces more horses is that there is a larger turbo and manifold on the engine itself.... Thhheeeennn Someone else told me that that was wrong and that the GTI-r comes equipped with forged pistons,and other various things that make the gti-r a better overall engine, and that there will be alot less mods to actually fit the engine... Then i was told that the Gti-r only had cast-iron like the sr20de and that the BB comes equipped with the forged pistons, and other various things, and then someone told me that the gti-r and the BB were exactly the same engines and the only difference is the turbo manifold, and that the Gti-r came with individual oil jets.... MMAAAN i am confused...
Then after having my heart set on swapping engines, someone said that it would be alot better if i just slapped on a turbo, get forged pistons, intercooler, and some other internals, and that would be alot more reliable.....
What I am looking for is "the most reliable, 300-350 horses, best low end and high end, something that spools up fast, and something that will last......
Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry: :p
G-Forces
03-05-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
MMAAAN i am confused...
No shit! :eek: I don't think you followed that thread carefully enough.
Here's the deal either the BB or GTi-R DET will have a hard time pumping out enough boost to get up to your goal. (300-350hp I'm assuming at the wheels) So you'll need to get a new turbo, injectors, MAF, ECU regardless. Plus you'll need to get a FMIC and piping all custom done as well. If you get all this for a DET you're just wasting money. It's easier to just just turbo your stock DE and add some water injection to get you that extra boost.
Now if your power goals are lower say less than 250hp at the wheels then you'll do fine with either the BB or the more expensive GTi-R.
In a lot of people's opinion the GTi-R is a waste of money and you'll be better off with the BB since more of the parts are swapable with the stock DE. And if something specific to the GTi-R breaks (say rocker arm) you'll be waiting a while for the parts to get here and your car will be down all that time.
As a final point it's kind of tough to give power estimates in crank hp when talking about mods. It's easier to talk about wheel hp since it's easier to measure. The stock DE will put out anywhere from 118-124hp at the wheels (whp). If you want to double or close to double your stock hp then get a DET. Which one depends on which one you want to afford.
MMAAAN i am confused...
No shit! :eek: I don't think you followed that thread carefully enough.
Here's the deal either the BB or GTi-R DET will have a hard time pumping out enough boost to get up to your goal. (300-350hp I'm assuming at the wheels) So you'll need to get a new turbo, injectors, MAF, ECU regardless. Plus you'll need to get a FMIC and piping all custom done as well. If you get all this for a DET you're just wasting money. It's easier to just just turbo your stock DE and add some water injection to get you that extra boost.
Now if your power goals are lower say less than 250hp at the wheels then you'll do fine with either the BB or the more expensive GTi-R.
In a lot of people's opinion the GTi-R is a waste of money and you'll be better off with the BB since more of the parts are swapable with the stock DE. And if something specific to the GTi-R breaks (say rocker arm) you'll be waiting a while for the parts to get here and your car will be down all that time.
As a final point it's kind of tough to give power estimates in crank hp when talking about mods. It's easier to talk about wheel hp since it's easier to measure. The stock DE will put out anywhere from 118-124hp at the wheels (whp). If you want to double or close to double your stock hp then get a DET. Which one depends on which one you want to afford.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-05-2002, 01:55 PM
Okay, lets say 250whp or 300whp on the safe side... What would be a better choice? to add the turbo to my stock DE or to just get the BB Det? And if i do either what else would i have to do to achieve that 300whp?, and also in those two choices which is more reliable, and which would last the longest??? Also what type of turbo should i add if i decide to just stick with adding the turbo? I was thinking of the t3/t04e ball bearing, but alot of people said that i should go with the t28 cause the t3/t4 manifold would require alot of unnecessary internal mods that would just be a waste of money. And if i decide to go with the BB det, what else would i need to do to require the 300whp without changing the turbo and manifold?
I was actually leaning towards slapping on the turbo, do you know or have any ideas of what a good set up would require to get the 300whp?
I was actually leaning towards slapping on the turbo, do you know or have any ideas of what a good set up would require to get the 300whp?
G20ps
03-05-2002, 02:10 PM
I am no expert and could be wrong, but I was told by JWT that the T28 would max out around 290 HP at the flywheel...
b-b00gie
03-05-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
300whp on the safe side... What would be a better choice? to add the turbo to my stock DE or to just get the BB Det?
a DET will get you about 195whp or so in stock form. To get to 300whp you will have to basically slap a *whole* new turbo setup onto the DET.
If you just purchase the magic 300whp producing turbo kit and put it on the DE, you will bypass the cost of a DET and be just as well off.
300whp on the safe side... What would be a better choice? to add the turbo to my stock DE or to just get the BB Det?
a DET will get you about 195whp or so in stock form. To get to 300whp you will have to basically slap a *whole* new turbo setup onto the DET.
If you just purchase the magic 300whp producing turbo kit and put it on the DE, you will bypass the cost of a DET and be just as well off.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-05-2002, 06:53 PM
What the heck is a magic turbo 300whp kit?
b-b00gie
03-05-2002, 07:01 PM
I just meant whichever components you had in mind for a 300whp setup...
Many people have used this to reach 300 to 320whp...
JWT ECU
Cobra MAF
FMAX/Protech/Redline Manifold
T3/T04E hybrid with Stage III .63 A/R turbine housing and .50 A/R 50trim compressor housing
MSD 50lb/hr injectors
FTF or JWT fuel rail
HKS or TiAL Wastegate
HKS, Greddy, TiAL BOV
Walbro or 300ZX TT Fuel pump
Electronic Boost Controller
2.5 inch Downpipe should be ok, bigger is better though
3 inch exhaust
Strong Clutch, equivalent to ACT ExtremePP with HD Disk
Large Spearco Intercooler
Many people have used this to reach 300 to 320whp...
JWT ECU
Cobra MAF
FMAX/Protech/Redline Manifold
T3/T04E hybrid with Stage III .63 A/R turbine housing and .50 A/R 50trim compressor housing
MSD 50lb/hr injectors
FTF or JWT fuel rail
HKS or TiAL Wastegate
HKS, Greddy, TiAL BOV
Walbro or 300ZX TT Fuel pump
Electronic Boost Controller
2.5 inch Downpipe should be ok, bigger is better though
3 inch exhaust
Strong Clutch, equivalent to ACT ExtremePP with HD Disk
Large Spearco Intercooler
P11GT
03-05-2002, 07:18 PM
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope. Ive lowered my compression in order to hopefully achieve this, i would have went for GTiR rods aswell but theyre far too damn expensive. I just hope i dont regret it.
For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.
The BB DET i have very little info on as the UK BB only had a CA18DET in it. With it being called a SR20DET i thought that it would be the same as the GTiR SR20DET but the more i read from here, the more im thinking not so.
If you still want your 300, then GTiR i think, but then you still gotta work out how to get 300BHP down on the tarmac, more expense here, i.e. running gear/tranmission, suspension..........
For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.
The BB DET i have very little info on as the UK BB only had a CA18DET in it. With it being called a SR20DET i thought that it would be the same as the GTiR SR20DET but the more i read from here, the more im thinking not so.
If you still want your 300, then GTiR i think, but then you still gotta work out how to get 300BHP down on the tarmac, more expense here, i.e. running gear/tranmission, suspension..........
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-05-2002, 08:05 PM
b-boogie, do you still need to add the internals in your list, or is all that you think i need? like rods, pistons to lower compression, etc...? If thats all i need for 300whp in your list, then i'm gonna do that, but i have a feeling that your gonna tell me that there is more.... If whati do is include everything in that list will my engine last?
Hey p11gt, i thought you already got your gti-r rods?
Hey p11gt, i thought you already got your gti-r rods?
P11GT
03-05-2002, 08:14 PM
I wish, nah just the pistons. Rods are like $100 US each, then theres the bearings......
b-b00gie
03-05-2002, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by P11GT
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.
Not true. Its been done here *tons* of times. Even 400+whp on DE with stock internals and water injection.
The setup I've listed above will get you over 300whp on *stock* internals. This is close to 350hp @ crank. There's tons of DE running around with that setup here.
The problem is *not* the internals, the problem is picking the correct turbo in the correct trim for *your* application...
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.
Not true. Its been done here *tons* of times. Even 400+whp on DE with stock internals and water injection.
The setup I've listed above will get you over 300whp on *stock* internals. This is close to 350hp @ crank. There's tons of DE running around with that setup here.
The problem is *not* the internals, the problem is picking the correct turbo in the correct trim for *your* application...
P10DET
03-05-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by P11GT
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.
You couldn't be more wrong. I have personally ridden in two cars with turbocharged SR20DEs that have made over 400 hp to the wheels on race gas and something like 360 hp at the wheels on pump gas. I know of others that make at least that much hp and are or have been driven every day. Every day.
Originally posted by P11GT
For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.
Cast pistons. Unless you're planning on spending over $10,000 US the BB DET will handle all the power you can throw at it (if done properly).
The GTi-R engine gets you quad throttle bodies. These don't add power, but will add a touch of throttle response. It will got you a short runner, large plenum intake manifold that will add power (about 15 hp).
im currently doing my turbo conversion on a SR20DE and to be realistic, my goal is 200BHP at the crank, i cant see you getting anywhere near 300 with a DE unless you basically strip the engine and replace most of the internals so that they can cope.
You couldn't be more wrong. I have personally ridden in two cars with turbocharged SR20DEs that have made over 400 hp to the wheels on race gas and something like 360 hp at the wheels on pump gas. I know of others that make at least that much hp and are or have been driven every day. Every day.
Originally posted by P11GT
For 300, youre looking at a swap, namely the GTiR which can produce upto 400BHP but not before spending a small fortune, internal work also needed here. Forged Pistons, uprated fuel pump, bigger turbo etc.
Cast pistons. Unless you're planning on spending over $10,000 US the BB DET will handle all the power you can throw at it (if done properly).
The GTi-R engine gets you quad throttle bodies. These don't add power, but will add a touch of throttle response. It will got you a short runner, large plenum intake manifold that will add power (about 15 hp).
P10DET
03-05-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things
<snip>
Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry: :p
Well, Boogie and I have given you the facts.
I have built a duplicate of Mike Kojima's killer NA engine. I have a BB SR20DET in my P10 G20. I have seen cars with the GRi-R SR20DET in it, including a friend's. I have several friends who have turbocharded their SR20DE and drive it every day, including three that have put over 400 hp to the wheels.
The USM SR20DE and the BB DET use the same block, head, oil pump, etc. The BB DET does use different valves (they are sodium filled). Otherwise, almost all of the parts for the BB DET are interchangeable with the USM DE. The BB DET will net you about 250 bhp things (after adding mods) before you have to start spending a lot of money replacing things.
The GTi-R engine uses virtually no parts in common with the USM SR20DE or the BB SR20DET. The block, head, oil pump, intake manifold, etc. are all different and not easily sourced in the US. The GTi-R DET will net you about 250 bhp (after adding mods) before you have to change the MAF. I'm not sure about the injectors. After those changes, the engine will max out abotu 275 bhp before you have to change the turbo.
For about the cost of a GTi-R DET, or maybe a little more, you can buy a wide variety of turbo manifolds, turbos, injectors, water injection, etc. that will allow you to reach your goal of 300-350 hp. Well, actually, it will likely cost you a bit more than a GTi-R DET. Figure $4-5k before labor.
As far as what to get, all I'm going to say is read the SE-R Mailing List archives. Do some research and make up your own mind or at least learn to ask more informed questions. Here is the link to the archives:
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/
I want around 300-350, so i have had a few people tell me different things
<snip>
Can someone help me clear up some isuues that i have and tell me real facts, and whats really going down? :help: :cry: :p
Well, Boogie and I have given you the facts.
I have built a duplicate of Mike Kojima's killer NA engine. I have a BB SR20DET in my P10 G20. I have seen cars with the GRi-R SR20DET in it, including a friend's. I have several friends who have turbocharded their SR20DE and drive it every day, including three that have put over 400 hp to the wheels.
The USM SR20DE and the BB DET use the same block, head, oil pump, etc. The BB DET does use different valves (they are sodium filled). Otherwise, almost all of the parts for the BB DET are interchangeable with the USM DE. The BB DET will net you about 250 bhp things (after adding mods) before you have to start spending a lot of money replacing things.
The GTi-R engine uses virtually no parts in common with the USM SR20DE or the BB SR20DET. The block, head, oil pump, intake manifold, etc. are all different and not easily sourced in the US. The GTi-R DET will net you about 250 bhp (after adding mods) before you have to change the MAF. I'm not sure about the injectors. After those changes, the engine will max out abotu 275 bhp before you have to change the turbo.
For about the cost of a GTi-R DET, or maybe a little more, you can buy a wide variety of turbo manifolds, turbos, injectors, water injection, etc. that will allow you to reach your goal of 300-350 hp. Well, actually, it will likely cost you a bit more than a GTi-R DET. Figure $4-5k before labor.
As far as what to get, all I'm going to say is read the SE-R Mailing List archives. Do some research and make up your own mind or at least learn to ask more informed questions. Here is the link to the archives:
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 02:11 AM
So i Guess i'm stickin with the turbo slap on... :p hey boogie, or p10, for the t3/t4, ball bearing or regular turbo? Also p10 the link you gave me gave me some message sayin ----
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You may not retreive SE-R Mailing List archive messages found via a general search engine. If you are interested in reading messages related to Nissan SR20DE powered vehicles, please go to the SE-R Mailing List web site to search the mailing list archives, or to SE-R.net for FAQs, repair tips, etc.
$Id: forbidden.phtml,v 1.2 1998-05-14 21:40:09-05 dev Exp $ 192738
So i guess what you guys are saying is that the turbo add on would be the best choice, just please let me know if i should go with the ball bearing or regular turbo, makes a biiig price difference :p
thanks guyz,,,
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You may not retreive SE-R Mailing List archive messages found via a general search engine. If you are interested in reading messages related to Nissan SR20DE powered vehicles, please go to the SE-R Mailing List web site to search the mailing list archives, or to SE-R.net for FAQs, repair tips, etc.
$Id: forbidden.phtml,v 1.2 1998-05-14 21:40:09-05 dev Exp $ 192738
So i guess what you guys are saying is that the turbo add on would be the best choice, just please let me know if i should go with the ball bearing or regular turbo, makes a biiig price difference :p
thanks guyz,,,
ty423
03-06-2002, 02:13 AM
I think you are looking in the wrong area...try www.egroups.com and find this mailing list and join.
P10DET didn't you already mention all the stuff you just said in an another post? De Javu..
P10DET didn't you already mention all the stuff you just said in an another post? De Javu..
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 02:16 AM
Sorrie, being anal again, but join what mailing list ty423, p10det?
ty423
03-06-2002, 03:02 AM
SERCA guys....Here is the link...SERCA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCal-SERCA/)
P10DET
03-06-2002, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by ty423
I think you are looking in the wrong area...try www.egroups.com and find this mailing list and join.
Wrong list.
http://www.se-r-list.org
Click in the link to search the archives.
Originally posted by ty423
P10DET didn't you already mention all the stuff you just said in an another post? De Javu..
Uh, yep.
I think you are looking in the wrong area...try www.egroups.com and find this mailing list and join.
Wrong list.
http://www.se-r-list.org
Click in the link to search the archives.
Originally posted by ty423
P10DET didn't you already mention all the stuff you just said in an another post? De Javu..
Uh, yep.
v_knot
03-06-2002, 06:57 AM
More and more people are leaning to slap on the Turbo instead of going through the hassle of swapping the DET and worry about compatibilities. Turbo conversion is a BIG project so don't think it as "monkey sees monkey dos" stuffs. Guys like P10DET and b-b00gie knows their stuffs because they have done it and or spent a lot of time researching. But there are times when you gotta make your own decisions and make your own researches. My advice is to join the SR20DEForum and SE-R mailing list and keep on reading........
G-Forces
03-06-2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by v_knot
Guys like P10DET and b-b00gie knows their stuffs because they have done it and or spent a lot of time researching.
Man I feel so unappreciated around here sometimes. :(
Guys like P10DET and b-b00gie knows their stuffs because they have done it and or spent a lot of time researching.
Man I feel so unappreciated around here sometimes. :(
P11GT
03-06-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
Not true. Its been done here *tons* of times. Even 400+whp on DE with stock internals and water injection.
The setup I've listed above will get you over 300whp on *stock* internals. This is close to 350hp @ crank. There's tons of DE running around with that setup here.
The problem is *not* the internals, the problem is picking the correct turbo in the correct trim for *your* application...
So these guys are using T3/T4 ?? im supprised they can fit such a big turbo in there, cos it doesnt look like theres much room in mine (radiator and air con restricting)
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/137515HSHeader.jpg
How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??
Not true. Its been done here *tons* of times. Even 400+whp on DE with stock internals and water injection.
The setup I've listed above will get you over 300whp on *stock* internals. This is close to 350hp @ crank. There's tons of DE running around with that setup here.
The problem is *not* the internals, the problem is picking the correct turbo in the correct trim for *your* application...
So these guys are using T3/T4 ?? im supprised they can fit such a big turbo in there, cos it doesnt look like theres much room in mine (radiator and air con restricting)
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/137515HSHeader.jpg
How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??
cas8_1999
03-06-2002, 10:27 AM
At what point do you experts beleive in terms of mileage on a de that its pointless to go forth and build a turbo setup on it? Would you say 70 k is too much or 100k or 150k? Does it strictly depend on results after compression testing ?
I'm also thinking for reaching about 300plus bhp we would need to replace alot of the internals in the de so wouldn't that sort of mean the engine is pratically renewed within the process of adding the turbo or is the mileage a big factor?
quote p11gt " How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??" i wonder about this too..
I'm also thinking for reaching about 300plus bhp we would need to replace alot of the internals in the de so wouldn't that sort of mean the engine is pratically renewed within the process of adding the turbo or is the mileage a big factor?
quote p11gt " How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??" i wonder about this too..
G-Forces
03-06-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by cas8_1999
I'm also thinking for reaching about 300plus bhp we would need to replace alot of the internals in the de so wouldn't that sort of mean the engine is pratically renewed within the process of adding the turbo or is the mileage a big factor?
If you current motor is in good shape (compression, leak down) I don't see why you couldn't get good results from a high milage block.
OTOH if the block is in good shape (i.e. no small or invisible cracks) you should be fine rebuilding your 100k block with fresh internals. If that's what you plan on doing. If you get a block from a junk yard have it x-ray'd to make sure it's internally sound.
[/b]
quote p11gt " How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??" i wonder about this too.. [/B]
Depends on the turbo and how efficent it is. An efficent turbo can get more power from less boost. Typically the turbo that Brian mentioned above will need about 10psi to push about 240whp and 14psi to push close to 300whp. In the end it really depends on the type of turbo you're using.
I'm also thinking for reaching about 300plus bhp we would need to replace alot of the internals in the de so wouldn't that sort of mean the engine is pratically renewed within the process of adding the turbo or is the mileage a big factor?
If you current motor is in good shape (compression, leak down) I don't see why you couldn't get good results from a high milage block.
OTOH if the block is in good shape (i.e. no small or invisible cracks) you should be fine rebuilding your 100k block with fresh internals. If that's what you plan on doing. If you get a block from a junk yard have it x-ray'd to make sure it's internally sound.
[/b]
quote p11gt " How much boost are they running to get such high BHP??" i wonder about this too.. [/B]
Depends on the turbo and how efficent it is. An efficent turbo can get more power from less boost. Typically the turbo that Brian mentioned above will need about 10psi to push about 240whp and 14psi to push close to 300whp. In the end it really depends on the type of turbo you're using.
G-Forces
03-06-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by P11GT
So these guys are using T3/T4 ?? im supprised they can fit such a big turbo in there, cos it doesnt look like theres much room in mine (radiator and air con restricting)
Yeah it's a tight fit.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/feb99/engine_small.jpg
You'd probably have to do something about that hose.
So these guys are using T3/T4 ?? im supprised they can fit such a big turbo in there, cos it doesnt look like theres much room in mine (radiator and air con restricting)
Yeah it's a tight fit.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/feb99/engine_small.jpg
You'd probably have to do something about that hose.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 11:19 AM
P11,
I know that my mechanic said that in order to fit a t3/t4 you would have to replace the cooling fans with aftermarket ones that are hella slim, i saw them and he put one on a p11, in between the radiator anf the frame of tha car, and it was only about one inch of space, REALLY THIN fans, they are not that expensive either!....
Also, B-Boogie, Ty423?
So should i get the ball bearing or stick with the original???
I know that my mechanic said that in order to fit a t3/t4 you would have to replace the cooling fans with aftermarket ones that are hella slim, i saw them and he put one on a p11, in between the radiator anf the frame of tha car, and it was only about one inch of space, REALLY THIN fans, they are not that expensive either!....
Also, B-Boogie, Ty423?
So should i get the ball bearing or stick with the original???
P11GT
03-06-2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by G-Forces
Yeah it's a tight fit.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/feb99/engine_small.jpg
You'd probably have to do something about that hose.
so i take it that the GTiR manifold would be useless here, as from your pics, the turbo sits above the manifold. where dyou get one of those from??
Crew - i was hoping that i wouldnt have to do that, but maybe if later i did go for a mahoosive T4 or something, i will, thanks for the tip. Got any links to the gear?
Yeah it's a tight fit.
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/feb99/engine_small.jpg
You'd probably have to do something about that hose.
so i take it that the GTiR manifold would be useless here, as from your pics, the turbo sits above the manifold. where dyou get one of those from??
Crew - i was hoping that i wouldnt have to do that, but maybe if later i did go for a mahoosive T4 or something, i will, thanks for the tip. Got any links to the gear?
b-b00gie
03-06-2002, 12:01 PM
b-b00gie
03-06-2002, 12:08 PM
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 12:11 PM
Damn... :eek2:
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 12:18 PM
B-Boogie
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
So what does the outside of that g look like?
That wierd way of air supply, i want to go for the more flashy look though, all polished look, but that engine setup is PPPHHHATTTT......
I want mine now!! :cry:
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
So what does the outside of that g look like?
That wierd way of air supply, i want to go for the more flashy look though, all polished look, but that engine setup is PPPHHHATTTT......
I want mine now!! :cry:
b-b00gie
03-06-2002, 12:20 PM
That is in a B14, the radiator mount is a little different than our cars, *however* the distance from the radiator to block and fans to block is the same.
As you can see you have to trim away a small piece of the fans. A better option is get some Flex-a-lite slim fans.. there will be more room in there and better cooling....
As you can see you have to trim away a small piece of the fans. A better option is get some Flex-a-lite slim fans.. there will be more room in there and better cooling....
b-b00gie
03-06-2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
B-Boogie
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
So what does the outside of that g look like?
That wierd way of air supply, i want to go for the more flashy look though, all polished look, but that engine setup is PPPHHHATTTT......
I want mine now!! :cry:
A T3/T4 will run about $800 or 850 (Turbonetics anyhow) for the BB center you'll have to pay another $500 or $600.
I think its definately worth it if you can spring for it. Combine that with some extrude honing and you'll easily lower your lag by 1000~1300rpms...
B-Boogie
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
So what does the outside of that g look like?
That wierd way of air supply, i want to go for the more flashy look though, all polished look, but that engine setup is PPPHHHATTTT......
I want mine now!! :cry:
A T3/T4 will run about $800 or 850 (Turbonetics anyhow) for the BB center you'll have to pay another $500 or $600.
I think its definately worth it if you can spring for it. Combine that with some extrude honing and you'll easily lower your lag by 1000~1300rpms...
G-Forces
03-06-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
B-Boogie
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
It's really up to you. If you can afford it go for it. Personally I'd like ot have a ball bearing turbo. I'll also try my hardest to save up for one.
It all comes down to whether you want to afford it or not. What do you think? Sounds to me you might be a little more interested in how the thing looks. So don't get it and save the extra 1k for some nice polished aluminum piping and a dress up kit with braded steal lines and stuff. It also depends on what turbo you want to get. On a T25/28 it might not be as noticable, or necessary, as on a T3/04E with a .82 A/R turbine which will take longer to spool.
But then again you wanted Brian to answer soooo....
B-Boogie
I knew that ball bearing was an option, but what i was wondering was, do you think that it would be necessary, or worth the money getting? i mean the ball bearing is like an extra $G, is that money worth putting down on the ball bearing? I know it spools up quicker, but is a G worth it?
It's really up to you. If you can afford it go for it. Personally I'd like ot have a ball bearing turbo. I'll also try my hardest to save up for one.
It all comes down to whether you want to afford it or not. What do you think? Sounds to me you might be a little more interested in how the thing looks. So don't get it and save the extra 1k for some nice polished aluminum piping and a dress up kit with braded steal lines and stuff. It also depends on what turbo you want to get. On a T25/28 it might not be as noticable, or necessary, as on a T3/04E with a .82 A/R turbine which will take longer to spool.
But then again you wanted Brian to answer soooo....
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 12:33 PM
B-Boogie
Do you happen to have that site for the slim fans? I know that that would be a better option for me, and p11gt too.... Also, i know you've already made me two lists :) and your probably gettin tired of writing them out for me, but could you possibly give me a final list of what i need in detail to make my 300-320whp, if you want you can e-mail me it?? :D
You've been a great deal of help b-boogie, thanx alot for the help and info mang, i apprea. alot.
B-BOOGIE IS DA BOMB :D :D :D
Do you happen to have that site for the slim fans? I know that that would be a better option for me, and p11gt too.... Also, i know you've already made me two lists :) and your probably gettin tired of writing them out for me, but could you possibly give me a final list of what i need in detail to make my 300-320whp, if you want you can e-mail me it?? :D
You've been a great deal of help b-boogie, thanx alot for the help and info mang, i apprea. alot.
B-BOOGIE IS DA BOMB :D :D :D
ty423
03-06-2002, 12:41 PM
Ball bearing....optional...If I were you..don't get them...waste of money...if you are into racing and have endless amount of money or worried about boosting 500rpm faster then why not go for the ball bearing....
v_knot
03-06-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by G-Forces
Man I feel so unappreciated around here sometimes. :(
...and of course our gracious AF moderator, soon to be former Torontonian and soon to be Vancouverian :), G-FORCES!!!!!!!:frog:
Man I feel so unappreciated around here sometimes. :(
...and of course our gracious AF moderator, soon to be former Torontonian and soon to be Vancouverian :), G-FORCES!!!!!!!:frog:
G-Forces
03-06-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by v_knot
...and of course our gracious AF moderator, soon to be former Torontonian and soon to be Vancouverian :), G-FORCES!!!!!!!:frog:
Oh gee thanks! I'll cook up a hot dog extra special for you when we have that big BBQ! ;)
BTW it's former Vancouverian, turned to Torontonian and back to Vancouverian. :p
...and of course our gracious AF moderator, soon to be former Torontonian and soon to be Vancouverian :), G-FORCES!!!!!!!:frog:
Oh gee thanks! I'll cook up a hot dog extra special for you when we have that big BBQ! ;)
BTW it's former Vancouverian, turned to Torontonian and back to Vancouverian. :p
b-b00gie
03-06-2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
B-Boogie
Do you happen to have that site for the slim fans? I know that that would be a better option for me, and p11gt too.... Also, i know you've already made me two lists :) and your probably gettin tired of writing them out for me, but could you possibly give me a final list of what i need in detail to make my 300-320whp, if you want you can e-mail me it?? :D
You've been a great deal of help b-boogie, thanx alot for the help and info mang, i apprea. alot.
B-BOOGIE IS DA BOMB :D :D :D
Now, now.. technically I'm still a turbo monkey since I've yet to turbo my car. I have done a *ton* of research though, and I think I've sorted out all the good information from all the mis-information.
I guess I should write up some sort of turbo faq. I'll add it to the to-do list. ;)
Anyhow... the list I posted in the first page will get you where you want to go. The only thing I think is missing is ignition, gauges, fans/radiator if you want to upgrade those too..
You can get the Flex-a-lite Slim fans at www.summitracing.com ...model number is 210. http://store.summitracing.com/product.asp?d=5&s=93&p=598&searchtype=ecat
BTW.. they are also offered in blue, red, or yellow plastic housing if you're interested.. although Summit only stocks the black ones.
B-Boogie
Do you happen to have that site for the slim fans? I know that that would be a better option for me, and p11gt too.... Also, i know you've already made me two lists :) and your probably gettin tired of writing them out for me, but could you possibly give me a final list of what i need in detail to make my 300-320whp, if you want you can e-mail me it?? :D
You've been a great deal of help b-boogie, thanx alot for the help and info mang, i apprea. alot.
B-BOOGIE IS DA BOMB :D :D :D
Now, now.. technically I'm still a turbo monkey since I've yet to turbo my car. I have done a *ton* of research though, and I think I've sorted out all the good information from all the mis-information.
I guess I should write up some sort of turbo faq. I'll add it to the to-do list. ;)
Anyhow... the list I posted in the first page will get you where you want to go. The only thing I think is missing is ignition, gauges, fans/radiator if you want to upgrade those too..
You can get the Flex-a-lite Slim fans at www.summitracing.com ...model number is 210. http://store.summitracing.com/product.asp?d=5&s=93&p=598&searchtype=ecat
BTW.. they are also offered in blue, red, or yellow plastic housing if you're interested.. although Summit only stocks the black ones.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-06-2002, 02:49 PM
Hey Boogie :D
With that whole set up from that list will i need to lower my compression?
Will a head gasket help, or would i need to get the rods and pistons, or will the stock manage at 9:3:1? -i think thats the comp.-
With that whole set up from that list will i need to lower my compression?
Will a head gasket help, or would i need to get the rods and pistons, or will the stock manage at 9:3:1? -i think thats the comp.-
akuma810
03-07-2002, 12:21 AM
G20TurboVisionCrew , after your done, gimme a ride :D
and b00gie , did u ever figure out the ecu wiring for 2000+ p11s?
and b00gie , did u ever figure out the ecu wiring for 2000+ p11s?
AznVirus
03-07-2002, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
I guess I should write up some sort of turbo faq. I'll add it to the to-do list. ;)
if ya dont mind, id like to add anything that you missed... thats IF you missed anything :p put it in the FAQ section. :D
I guess I should write up some sort of turbo faq. I'll add it to the to-do list. ;)
if ya dont mind, id like to add anything that you missed... thats IF you missed anything :p put it in the FAQ section. :D
AznVirus
03-07-2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Hey Boogie :D
With that whole set up from that list will i need to lower my compression?
Will a head gasket help, or would i need to get the rods and pistons, or will the stock manage at 9:3:1? -i think thats the comp.-
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket. if you want to rebuild your block then go for lower comp. pistons/rods, but they will hold up fine as long as you dont boost too happily or get a boost spike. water injection will help you prevent detonation as well.
Hey Boogie :D
With that whole set up from that list will i need to lower my compression?
Will a head gasket help, or would i need to get the rods and pistons, or will the stock manage at 9:3:1? -i think thats the comp.-
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket. if you want to rebuild your block then go for lower comp. pistons/rods, but they will hold up fine as long as you dont boost too happily or get a boost spike. water injection will help you prevent detonation as well.
G-Forces
03-07-2002, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by AznVirus
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket.
Nahhh, this is a chincy solution. This throws off your cam timing for starters so you need to get some adjustible cam gears and fix that.
9.5:1 compression ratio should be fine if, like Aznvirus said, you do it properly. You can boost about 10psi on a decent turbo/FMIC and up to 13-14psi with water injection on a 9.5:1 stock motor. After that you need to start working on upgrading the ignition.
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket.
Nahhh, this is a chincy solution. This throws off your cam timing for starters so you need to get some adjustible cam gears and fix that.
9.5:1 compression ratio should be fine if, like Aznvirus said, you do it properly. You can boost about 10psi on a decent turbo/FMIC and up to 13-14psi with water injection on a 9.5:1 stock motor. After that you need to start working on upgrading the ignition.
v_knot
03-07-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by AznVirus
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket. if you want to rebuild your block then go for lower comp. pistons/rods, but they will hold up fine as long as you dont boost too happily or get a boost spike. water injection will help you prevent detonation as well.
People have attempted to lower compression by installing thicker head gasket, but this will only lead to better chance for internal detonation. Not recommended.
stock DE compression is 9.5:1. you might want to look in to lowering the compression with a head gasket. if you want to rebuild your block then go for lower comp. pistons/rods, but they will hold up fine as long as you dont boost too happily or get a boost spike. water injection will help you prevent detonation as well.
People have attempted to lower compression by installing thicker head gasket, but this will only lead to better chance for internal detonation. Not recommended.
P11GT
03-07-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by v_knot
People have attempted to lower compression by installing thicker head gasket, but this will only lead to better chance for internal detonation. Not recommended.
I nearly done that, but opted for the GTiR pistons so i get 8.3:1, this should be a good base to work from right??
People have attempted to lower compression by installing thicker head gasket, but this will only lead to better chance for internal detonation. Not recommended.
I nearly done that, but opted for the GTiR pistons so i get 8.3:1, this should be a good base to work from right??
G-Forces
03-07-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by P11GT
I nearly done that, but opted for the GTiR pistons so i get 8.3:1, this should be a good base to work from right??
Hell yeah.
I nearly done that, but opted for the GTiR pistons so i get 8.3:1, this should be a good base to work from right??
Hell yeah.
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-07-2002, 11:31 AM
Hey boogie and the crew
Well, i had alittle talk with my mechanic, apearently he said that if i'd do the set up you listed that that would be a good set up, but i will only be able to get 8-10psi, and if i want to go for the 16-20psi to go for the forged pistons, should i get the gti-r pistons and rods, or should i just re-build my stock ones? he said that if i get gti-r pistons that they would be re-built anyway, he said that it would be basically the same pprocedure and stability if i got them re-built... And i asked about the head gasket, i think v-knot is right, replacing my head gasket won't do anything for my compression, i'll need to get the pistons and rods to pull off the high psi i wanna push....
Hey, what do you guys think is a good price for the T3/TO4E hybrid Stage III? ALso, is a V shaped trim good?
Also which route do you think would be better?
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor that would move a lower-flowing compressor at a higher RPM, resulting in less efficiency, but
more boost. with an adequate intercooler, that could be compensated for. It would also reduce TIP, turbine inlet pressure.
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor would result in quicker-spool up and lower RPM (thus less boost), and less lag, at the expense of top-end(as the T3 moves out of its efficiency range).
Well, i had alittle talk with my mechanic, apearently he said that if i'd do the set up you listed that that would be a good set up, but i will only be able to get 8-10psi, and if i want to go for the 16-20psi to go for the forged pistons, should i get the gti-r pistons and rods, or should i just re-build my stock ones? he said that if i get gti-r pistons that they would be re-built anyway, he said that it would be basically the same pprocedure and stability if i got them re-built... And i asked about the head gasket, i think v-knot is right, replacing my head gasket won't do anything for my compression, i'll need to get the pistons and rods to pull off the high psi i wanna push....
Hey, what do you guys think is a good price for the T3/TO4E hybrid Stage III? ALso, is a V shaped trim good?
Also which route do you think would be better?
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor that would move a lower-flowing compressor at a higher RPM, resulting in less efficiency, but
more boost. with an adequate intercooler, that could be compensated for. It would also reduce TIP, turbine inlet pressure.
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor would result in quicker-spool up and lower RPM (thus less boost), and less lag, at the expense of top-end(as the T3 moves out of its efficiency range).
v_knot
03-07-2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by G-Forces
Oh gee thanks! I'll cook up a hot dog extra special for you when we have that big BBQ! ;)
BTW it's former Vancouverian, turned to Torontonian and back to Vancouverian. :p
Oh I am in love.....did you say you need a girl or someone can dress up like a girl in order to give the ring to?? :D It's hard to chose, ring or turbo? ring? turbo? ..... LOL
:silly2:
Oh gee thanks! I'll cook up a hot dog extra special for you when we have that big BBQ! ;)
BTW it's former Vancouverian, turned to Torontonian and back to Vancouverian. :p
Oh I am in love.....did you say you need a girl or someone can dress up like a girl in order to give the ring to?? :D It's hard to chose, ring or turbo? ring? turbo? ..... LOL
:silly2:
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-07-2002, 03:42 PM
Iv'e been going over this thread, and i got to admit I FEEL FOR YOU
G-FORCES!!! No one has been giving you the credit you deserve!!!
So I am taking the time to say THANKS MAN, you've been great help, along with B-Boogie, P10 and the rest... Thanks for you help G :D
G-FORCES!!! No one has been giving you the credit you deserve!!!
So I am taking the time to say THANKS MAN, you've been great help, along with B-Boogie, P10 and the rest... Thanks for you help G :D
P10DET
03-07-2002, 10:42 PM
OK, let me just suggest one last time doing some research. I highly recommend taking my previous suggestions and also reading Mike Kojima's "Turbo Manifesto" in SCC. There were 2 or 3 articles he wrote as part of his "Suck, Squich, Bang, Blow" series regarding turbos.
G22DET
03-08-2002, 01:47 AM
yeh, as a former DET powered P11 owner...do some more research about your whole project, from reading your post, its hard to justify that you know what you are getting into...
btw, 16psi-20psi as a daily car? you might wanna reconsider that....i lost my dyno sheet but i got my DET tuned with a JWT ecu and I got 189.8whp which is about 227hp at the motor...i also have a bigger exhaust...the result weren't bad since we get stupid watered down 91octane that we get here in california. with that power i got on hand, it's plenty good for the street as power delivery is very smooth. on the tracks, you have to watch for wheel spin as with every exit, you are likely to lose traction...then again, i had bald tires...
btw, 16psi-20psi as a daily car? you might wanna reconsider that....i lost my dyno sheet but i got my DET tuned with a JWT ecu and I got 189.8whp which is about 227hp at the motor...i also have a bigger exhaust...the result weren't bad since we get stupid watered down 91octane that we get here in california. with that power i got on hand, it's plenty good for the street as power delivery is very smooth. on the tracks, you have to watch for wheel spin as with every exit, you are likely to lose traction...then again, i had bald tires...
v_knot
03-08-2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by P10DET
OK, let me just suggest one last time doing some research. I highly recommend taking my previous suggestions and also reading Mike Kojima's "Turbo Manifesto" in SCC. There were 2 or 3 articles he wrote as part of his "Suck, Squich, Bang, Blow" series regarding turbos.
George, you keep telling us to read this article and up to today, I still haven't get my hands on one. Any link? Any source as where to get one? Or if you know someone has a copy of all the series and is willing to photocopy? or how one can get them? Do you know the specific issue that the article was in? Like date and year?
Me no clue.... :rolleyes:
OK, let me just suggest one last time doing some research. I highly recommend taking my previous suggestions and also reading Mike Kojima's "Turbo Manifesto" in SCC. There were 2 or 3 articles he wrote as part of his "Suck, Squich, Bang, Blow" series regarding turbos.
George, you keep telling us to read this article and up to today, I still haven't get my hands on one. Any link? Any source as where to get one? Or if you know someone has a copy of all the series and is willing to photocopy? or how one can get them? Do you know the specific issue that the article was in? Like date and year?
Me no clue.... :rolleyes:
b-b00gie
03-08-2002, 08:24 AM
I posted this awhile back....
If you are looking for the turbo lessons get yourself parts 8 through 11, here's a list of all of them...
Sport Compact Car Magazine http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow:
Aug 99: Part 1 "Killer engine basics from A to Z"
Dec 99: Part 2 "The inner workings of the intake and exhaust system"
Jun 00: Part 3 "Things that go bump in the night"
Sept 00: Part 4 "Secrets of the cylinder head"
Nov 00: Part 5 "Tune to win"
Mar 01: Part 6 "The reciprocating stuff"
Apr 01: Part 7 "Beefing up the bottom end"
Jul 01: Part 8 "Turbochargers the great equilizers"
Aug 01: Part 9 "Turbochargers vs. Superchargers"
Sep 01: Part 10 "Turbo math: picking the right size turbo"
Oct 01: Part 11 "The components of a turbo system"
If you are looking for the turbo lessons get yourself parts 8 through 11, here's a list of all of them...
Sport Compact Car Magazine http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow:
Aug 99: Part 1 "Killer engine basics from A to Z"
Dec 99: Part 2 "The inner workings of the intake and exhaust system"
Jun 00: Part 3 "Things that go bump in the night"
Sept 00: Part 4 "Secrets of the cylinder head"
Nov 00: Part 5 "Tune to win"
Mar 01: Part 6 "The reciprocating stuff"
Apr 01: Part 7 "Beefing up the bottom end"
Jul 01: Part 8 "Turbochargers the great equilizers"
Aug 01: Part 9 "Turbochargers vs. Superchargers"
Sep 01: Part 10 "Turbo math: picking the right size turbo"
Oct 01: Part 11 "The components of a turbo system"
v_knot
03-08-2002, 09:12 AM
If that's what he referred to, I've read them all. Good. But that doesn't mean I know everything! hahehahe.
Cheers.
Cheers.
G-Forces
03-08-2002, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by v_knot
If that's what he referred to, I've read them all. Good. But that doesn't mean I know everything! hahehahe.
Cheers.
Then read them again! :D :p:p:p
If that's what he referred to, I've read them all. Good. But that doesn't mean I know everything! hahehahe.
Cheers.
Then read them again! :D :p:p:p
G22DET
03-08-2002, 10:41 AM
hey jason..is your email working yet? email me, i gotta tell you something
G20TurboVisionCrew
03-08-2002, 11:31 AM
Ohtay, Know I know what p10det is talking about, i was in the same predicament, I had no idea where to get that article, but know i know, and i have read that too, but i too gotta read that again to get it soaked in my mind, uhhh, maybe twice....
Hey Luke, i had a question, and i'm not sure you'll answer (cause all racers gotta have their secrets), but did you do any upgrades when you put in you DET or is that stock HP of 227?
Also would you say that 8-10-12 psi is good for a daily driven car, I want to push 16-20 but not everytime i drive, just in those "lets race a corvette and see how close i come" situations.... :D
Also, I know it probably says it in the article i am about to read over again, but can someone explain to me more about water injection???
And answer which would be a more suitable decision?
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor that would move a lower-flowing compressor at a higher RPM, resulting in less efficiency, but
more boost. with an adequate intercooler, that could be compensated for. It would also reduce TIP, turbine inlet pressure.
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor would result in quicker-spool up and lower RPM (thus less boost), and less lag, at the expense of top-end(as the T3 moves out of its efficiency range).
I was thinking of the second decision, but the first decision sounds suitable too, does anyone have any input or comments??? I am looking for alot of low end but i do not want to suffer at high ends either.....
Hey Luke, i had a question, and i'm not sure you'll answer (cause all racers gotta have their secrets), but did you do any upgrades when you put in you DET or is that stock HP of 227?
Also would you say that 8-10-12 psi is good for a daily driven car, I want to push 16-20 but not everytime i drive, just in those "lets race a corvette and see how close i come" situations.... :D
Also, I know it probably says it in the article i am about to read over again, but can someone explain to me more about water injection???
And answer which would be a more suitable decision?
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor that would move a lower-flowing compressor at a higher RPM, resulting in less efficiency, but
more boost. with an adequate intercooler, that could be compensated for. It would also reduce TIP, turbine inlet pressure.
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor would result in quicker-spool up and lower RPM (thus less boost), and less lag, at the expense of top-end(as the T3 moves out of its efficiency range).
I was thinking of the second decision, but the first decision sounds suitable too, does anyone have any input or comments??? I am looking for alot of low end but i do not want to suffer at high ends either.....
P10DET
03-08-2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Also would you say that 8-10-12 psi is good for a daily driven car, I want to push 16-20 but not everytime i drive, just in those "lets race a corvette and see how close i come" situations.... :D
Do not get hung up on boost. You really need to read Mike's articles again and make sure you fully understand them. A T04E will make more power at 10 psi than a T25 at 16 psi.
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Also, I know it probably says it in the article i am about to read over again, but can someone explain to me more about water injection???
No. Go read the articles. Nobody here can explain it as well as the articles or as Mike has done on the SE-R Mailing List archives.
I really hate to say this but your constant questions without doing any of your own research is beginning to piss me off. I don't know about anyone else, but I have much better things to do than constantly answer questions that are answered elsewhere (and readily available), or correct misconceptions that will be fixed by doing a little homework. As far as I'm concerned, until you do some homework, you're on your own. I don't speak for anyone else of course. I've tried to be really patient and guide you, but I and others can only tell you so many times to do your homework. Once you do it will be obvious because your questions will be more pointed and informed.
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor...
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor...
Read the bloody articles and the SE-R Mailing List archives. This is your project. Take some responsibility for it.
Sorry to be so blunt, but you haven't gotten the message from subtle (or otherwise) suggestions by me or others.
I've no ill will, but I do have better things to do.
Also would you say that 8-10-12 psi is good for a daily driven car, I want to push 16-20 but not everytime i drive, just in those "lets race a corvette and see how close i come" situations.... :D
Do not get hung up on boost. You really need to read Mike's articles again and make sure you fully understand them. A T04E will make more power at 10 psi than a T25 at 16 psi.
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Also, I know it probably says it in the article i am about to read over again, but can someone explain to me more about water injection???
No. Go read the articles. Nobody here can explain it as well as the articles or as Mike has done on the SE-R Mailing List archives.
I really hate to say this but your constant questions without doing any of your own research is beginning to piss me off. I don't know about anyone else, but I have much better things to do than constantly answer questions that are answered elsewhere (and readily available), or correct misconceptions that will be fixed by doing a little homework. As far as I'm concerned, until you do some homework, you're on your own. I don't speak for anyone else of course. I've tried to be really patient and guide you, but I and others can only tell you so many times to do your homework. Once you do it will be obvious because your questions will be more pointed and informed.
Originally posted by G20TurboVisionCrew
Putting a T4 turbine on a T3 compressor...
Putting a T3 turbine on a T4 compressor...
Read the bloody articles and the SE-R Mailing List archives. This is your project. Take some responsibility for it.
Sorry to be so blunt, but you haven't gotten the message from subtle (or otherwise) suggestions by me or others.
I've no ill will, but I do have better things to do.
P11GT
03-09-2002, 04:08 AM
Ive printed out Mikes article and currently passing it around to some of the people who will be involved with my project. Its ended up about 30 pages long and is definatley a good read. Most of them cant believe that the DE can achieve upto 400BHP let alone turbocharging it, and to top things off, Mike done all this back in '98/'99 !!! We're streets behind over here.
Heres something for you Crew, dont know if youve read it.
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/2001/2001-04/msg00883.html
Heres something for you Crew, dont know if youve read it.
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/2001/2001-04/msg00883.html
P10DET
03-09-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by P11GT
Ive printed out Mikes article and currently passing it around to some of the people who will be involved with my project. Its ended up about 30 pages long and is definatley a good read. Most of them cant believe that the DE can achieve upto 400BHP let alone turbocharging it, and to top things off, Mike done all this back in '98/'99 !!! We're streets behind over here.
Heres something for you Crew, dont know if youve read it.
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/2001/2001-04/msg00883.html
Actually, you're talking about Mike's NA SR20DE. I built a copy of that engine. It's good for about 200 bhp. I seriously doubt you could get 400 bhp NA. BTCC engines "only" put out a little over 300 bhp.
The articles we keep referring to regarding turbos were published middle of last year.
Ive printed out Mikes article and currently passing it around to some of the people who will be involved with my project. Its ended up about 30 pages long and is definatley a good read. Most of them cant believe that the DE can achieve upto 400BHP let alone turbocharging it, and to top things off, Mike done all this back in '98/'99 !!! We're streets behind over here.
Heres something for you Crew, dont know if youve read it.
http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/2001/2001-04/msg00883.html
Actually, you're talking about Mike's NA SR20DE. I built a copy of that engine. It's good for about 200 bhp. I seriously doubt you could get 400 bhp NA. BTCC engines "only" put out a little over 300 bhp.
The articles we keep referring to regarding turbos were published middle of last year.
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