What size of turbo should I choose? (for p10)
radicalG20
01-30-2002, 01:36 PM
As some of you already know, hot shot performance is putting together a sponsored turbo kit for my p10. They asked me what size turbo I wanted. I can choose from either a turbonetics T3, a T3/T4, or a T4. I was told a T3/T4 will spool up quicker than a T3. By the way, whatever turbo I go with will be mated to a turbonetics adjustable wastegate, blow-off valve, and front mount intercooler. Any suggestions for which turbo to go with? Any help would be appreciated.
jayntguru
01-30-2002, 02:21 PM
How fast do you want to go?
What sort of fuel system will you be running?
How much money do you have to spend?
What sort of fuel system will you be running?
How much money do you have to spend?
radicalG20
01-30-2002, 02:43 PM
1. My goal is around 225 to 250 whp.
2. stock w/370 injectors, JWT fuel rail
3. money, really no object, half of the stuff I'm getting free, the rest is at wholesale/dealer cost.
2. stock w/370 injectors, JWT fuel rail
3. money, really no object, half of the stuff I'm getting free, the rest is at wholesale/dealer cost.
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 02:58 PM
If you only want 250whp you may want to go w/ a T28, extrude honed, BB center.
Definately search the SE-R archives for stuff by Rob Cadle and Mike Kojima.
Definately search the SE-R archives for stuff by Rob Cadle and Mike Kojima.
radicalG20
01-30-2002, 03:04 PM
T28 is not an option. The smallest I will go with is a T3. The 225 to 250 whp is my initial goal, followed by increasing the boost and doing a little internal work.
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 03:23 PM
Well then your goal isnt 250whp is it? :p
You need to decide on your ultimate goal in order to properly size your turbo...
It's not only a question of your turbo type. The specs on the turbo are equally important, which all depends on your final goal.
You need to decide on your ultimate goal in order to properly size your turbo...
It's not only a question of your turbo type. The specs on the turbo are equally important, which all depends on your final goal.
radicalG20
01-30-2002, 03:28 PM
OK, 225-250=initial goal
around 300 whp=final goal (Or enough to beat my dad's Mustang Cobra )
:D
around 300 whp=final goal (Or enough to beat my dad's Mustang Cobra )
:D
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 05:57 PM
OK then...
T3/T04E Stage III
50 Trim Compressor Wheel
.63 A/R Turbine Housing
The boost will start coming on @3500 (pretty good). If you want to lower the spool time (you do! :D) Get a Ball Bearing center for an extra $500. Also get the exhaust housing extrude honed which will run you about $100. You should then start spooling at 2500 or 2700 rpms. ...what lag??? :p
This turbo is good for up to 325whp. It costs around $850, or $1300 if you get the BB center.
This info is coming from Rob Cadle, a Garrett engineer and SE-R owner. ;)
T3/T04E Stage III
50 Trim Compressor Wheel
.63 A/R Turbine Housing
The boost will start coming on @3500 (pretty good). If you want to lower the spool time (you do! :D) Get a Ball Bearing center for an extra $500. Also get the exhaust housing extrude honed which will run you about $100. You should then start spooling at 2500 or 2700 rpms. ...what lag??? :p
This turbo is good for up to 325whp. It costs around $850, or $1300 if you get the BB center.
This info is coming from Rob Cadle, a Garrett engineer and SE-R owner. ;)
jayntguru
01-30-2002, 06:10 PM
You dodn't state if your power goals were pump gas or race gas...
50 trim compressor wheel I would spec more along the lines of a 400 WHP motor. If you are only going for 300, use a smaller wheel. I like the way the 46 trim wheel looks on paper. It was good enough for 400 WHP in my 97 GSX. 11.7 @ 119.7 in the 1/4. It will easily make 300 HP on pump gas. (My numbers were on race gas.)
Don't get me wrong, the 50 trim is a good wheel, but it's powerful enough to propel a heavy DSM into the 10's. You don't need something that big for only 300 HP.
50 trim compressor wheel I would spec more along the lines of a 400 WHP motor. If you are only going for 300, use a smaller wheel. I like the way the 46 trim wheel looks on paper. It was good enough for 400 WHP in my 97 GSX. 11.7 @ 119.7 in the 1/4. It will easily make 300 HP on pump gas. (My numbers were on race gas.)
Don't get me wrong, the 50 trim is a good wheel, but it's powerful enough to propel a heavy DSM into the 10's. You don't need something that big for only 300 HP.
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 06:21 PM
I dont think it will be a race gas type vehicle from what I know of the car ;)
Using a 46 trim compressor wheel would require cranking up the boost pretty damn high. I'm not sure he's planning on bottom end work, etc...
BTW... using a 50 trim compressor wheel you will NOT see 400whp with .63 A/R turbine housing. With a 50 trim .82 A/R you will see 400whp but there will be close to another 1000 rpms of lag.
Of course there are mutliple setups to get to 300whp, but the turbo I listed above has been known as the best way of getting there with the least amount of lag and boost levels that arent borderlining on detonation.
Using a 46 trim compressor wheel would require cranking up the boost pretty damn high. I'm not sure he's planning on bottom end work, etc...
BTW... using a 50 trim compressor wheel you will NOT see 400whp with .63 A/R turbine housing. With a 50 trim .82 A/R you will see 400whp but there will be close to another 1000 rpms of lag.
Of course there are mutliple setups to get to 300whp, but the turbo I listed above has been known as the best way of getting there with the least amount of lag and boost levels that arent borderlining on detonation.
jayntguru
01-30-2002, 06:40 PM
I'm looking at the maps, don't see what you mean about high boost with the 46 trim. I've had both turbos on a car. 50 trim sweet spot is about 27 PSI, 46 trim is about 24 PSI. Neither will be realized on this car it looks like.
Wanna bet about making more than 400HP on an AR that small? ;)
(Go look at what a 7cm Mitsu housing's AR works out to be. You'll be surprised what power you can make with a small AR.)
Wanna bet about making more than 400HP on an AR that small? ;)
(Go look at what a 7cm Mitsu housing's AR works out to be. You'll be surprised what power you can make with a small AR.)
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 06:43 PM
BTW...
You will need 50lb/hr injectors, Cobra MAF (your dad will like that!), Walbro or 300ZX fuel pump, new fuel rail along with the other turbo "stuff"
You will need 50lb/hr injectors, Cobra MAF (your dad will like that!), Walbro or 300ZX fuel pump, new fuel rail along with the other turbo "stuff"
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by jayntguru
I'm looking at the maps, don't see what you mean about high boost with the 46 trim. I've had both turbos on a car. 50 trim sweet spot is about 27 PSI, 46 trim is about 24 PSI. Neither will be realized on this car it looks like.
Wanna bet about making more than 400HP on an AR that small? ;)
(Go look at what a 7cm Mitsu housing's AR works out to be. You'll be surprised what power you can make with a small AR.)
You are talking about boosting over 20 psi on a stock internal engine street car. Can we say detonation?
I'm looking at the maps, don't see what you mean about high boost with the 46 trim. I've had both turbos on a car. 50 trim sweet spot is about 27 PSI, 46 trim is about 24 PSI. Neither will be realized on this car it looks like.
Wanna bet about making more than 400HP on an AR that small? ;)
(Go look at what a 7cm Mitsu housing's AR works out to be. You'll be surprised what power you can make with a small AR.)
You are talking about boosting over 20 psi on a stock internal engine street car. Can we say detonation?
jayntguru
01-30-2002, 06:53 PM
Quoting myself:
"50 trim sweet spot is about 27 PSI, 46 trim is about 24 PSI. Neither will be realized on this car it looks like. "
Ask Jay H how much boost you can run on a stock motor. 22 PSI plus.
"50 trim sweet spot is about 27 PSI, 46 trim is about 24 PSI. Neither will be realized on this car it looks like. "
Ask Jay H how much boost you can run on a stock motor. 22 PSI plus.
b-b00gie
01-30-2002, 07:04 PM
I know Hass's old car pretty good.
He was running that boost with water injection. And even at that boost he laid down 409whp w/ a 76 trim .82 A/R
Running more than 18psi is just plain dumb without race gas or water injection or lowered compression and bottom end work.
He was running that boost with water injection. And even at that boost he laid down 409whp w/ a 76 trim .82 A/R
Running more than 18psi is just plain dumb without race gas or water injection or lowered compression and bottom end work.
jayntguru
01-30-2002, 07:14 PM
Agreed. Any turbo car that isn't stock requires a few brain cells. (Witness Jay's old car's demise.)
http://www.nx2k.com/eclipse/
http://www.nx2k.com/eclipse/
2002G20Racer
01-30-2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by radicalG20
1. My goal is around 225 to 250 whp.
2. stock w/370 injectors, JWT fuel rail
3. money, really no object, half of the stuff I'm getting free, the rest is at wholesale/dealer cost.
Lucky SOB!!! I wish I got free parts and whole sale prices too.... :crying:
1. My goal is around 225 to 250 whp.
2. stock w/370 injectors, JWT fuel rail
3. money, really no object, half of the stuff I'm getting free, the rest is at wholesale/dealer cost.
Lucky SOB!!! I wish I got free parts and whole sale prices too.... :crying:
P10DET
01-31-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
I know Hass's old car pretty good.
He was running that boost with water injection. And even at that boost he laid down 409whp w/ a 76 trim .82 A/R
Running more than 18psi is just plain dumb without race gas or water injection or lowered compression and bottom end work.
And don't forget, that was gulping C16 with a T04E IIRC. Boost psi with one turbo is not the same as boost psi with another. The psi might be the same, but discharge temps is a whole other matter.
I know Hass's old car pretty good.
He was running that boost with water injection. And even at that boost he laid down 409whp w/ a 76 trim .82 A/R
Running more than 18psi is just plain dumb without race gas or water injection or lowered compression and bottom end work.
And don't forget, that was gulping C16 with a T04E IIRC. Boost psi with one turbo is not the same as boost psi with another. The psi might be the same, but discharge temps is a whole other matter.
P10DET
01-31-2002, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by jayntguru
Agreed. Any turbo car that isn't stock requires a few brain cells. (Witness Jay's old car's demise.)
http://www.nx2k.com/eclipse/
ROTFLMAO
Agreed. Any turbo car that isn't stock requires a few brain cells. (Witness Jay's old car's demise.)
http://www.nx2k.com/eclipse/
ROTFLMAO
P10DET
01-31-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
You need to decide on your ultimate goal in order to properly size your turbo...
It's not only a question of your turbo type. The specs on the turbo are equally important, which all depends on your final goal.
Smart boy.
Looks like Boogie is fast becoming the G20 Forum's turbo guru. Yes, there are others who drop in and out who may know more (Jay and Louis come to mind), but Boogie is here daily and looks like he's resident guru. :D
BTW, don't look at me. I'm just a turbo monkey. I do what I'm told. :D
You need to decide on your ultimate goal in order to properly size your turbo...
It's not only a question of your turbo type. The specs on the turbo are equally important, which all depends on your final goal.
Smart boy.
Looks like Boogie is fast becoming the G20 Forum's turbo guru. Yes, there are others who drop in and out who may know more (Jay and Louis come to mind), but Boogie is here daily and looks like he's resident guru. :D
BTW, don't look at me. I'm just a turbo monkey. I do what I'm told. :D
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 06:17 AM
I've still got a lot to learn. I concider myself borderline monkey at this point, but Mike K is teaching me a lot everyday. ;)
I have over 16 pages of handwritten notes just from info found on SE-R.net's archives, Mike's SCC papers, Mike's emails, and from a few credible sources on the SR20DE forum who have setups that have been known to work...
I have over 16 pages of handwritten notes just from info found on SE-R.net's archives, Mike's SCC papers, Mike's emails, and from a few credible sources on the SR20DE forum who have setups that have been known to work...
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by P10DET
And don't forget, that was gulping C16 with a T04E IIRC. Boost psi with one turbo is not the same as boost psi with another. The psi might be the same, but discharge temps is a whole other matter.
Yeah... all the posts I was making was in regards to a T3/T04E. ;)
I was beginning to think that me and Jay werent on the same page. The reason people are getting good results using the larger compressor is because of the hybrid setup. The smaller T3 housing allows for quicker spool up times (like I mentioned), so you can get away with the larger T04E to get some good power quickly.
And don't forget, that was gulping C16 with a T04E IIRC. Boost psi with one turbo is not the same as boost psi with another. The psi might be the same, but discharge temps is a whole other matter.
Yeah... all the posts I was making was in regards to a T3/T04E. ;)
I was beginning to think that me and Jay werent on the same page. The reason people are getting good results using the larger compressor is because of the hybrid setup. The smaller T3 housing allows for quicker spool up times (like I mentioned), so you can get away with the larger T04E to get some good power quickly.
v_knot
01-31-2002, 08:47 AM
b-b00gie,
looks like you are set for a turbo? when is it going to happen? what did you decide to do? a new SR20DET or SR20DE with turbo goodies?
looks like you are set for a turbo? when is it going to happen? what did you decide to do? a new SR20DET or SR20DE with turbo goodies?
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 09:32 AM
Turbo'ing my SR20DE. It should be complete in 9 months? Who knows... I have a lot of stuff to buy and work to do. I'm piecing things togther slowly.
v_knot
01-31-2002, 09:40 AM
Great! What are you aiming for? 300whp? 400whp? 500whp? :D
Are you going to post every little details on your website? I got it linked already :p
Are you going to post every little details on your website? I got it linked already :p
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 09:51 AM
Well.. UXB will be going away soon... I gotta save money so I cant be paying for G20.net and unXplodedbomb.com
As soon as the domain transfer goes through I will have something like brian.g20.net or uxb.g20.net and maybe have unxplodedbomb.com just forward to that. Jason will also have his own personal space... jason.g20.net or so.. ;)
400whp is the goal. Mike K. thinks I will be in the 400whp-440whp with the setup I'm doing. It'll all be documented soon.
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
As soon as the domain transfer goes through I will have something like brian.g20.net or uxb.g20.net and maybe have unxplodedbomb.com just forward to that. Jason will also have his own personal space... jason.g20.net or so.. ;)
400whp is the goal. Mike K. thinks I will be in the 400whp-440whp with the setup I'm doing. It'll all be documented soon.
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
G-Forces
01-31-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
Turbo'ing my SR20DE. It should be complete in 9 months?
What? You making a baby? ;)
Turbo'ing my SR20DE. It should be complete in 9 months?
What? You making a baby? ;)
G-Forces
01-31-2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
400whp is the goal. Mike K. thinks I will be in the 400whp-440whp with the setup I'm doing. It'll all be documented soon.
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
:eek: :eek: No kidding. That's some serious power there boy. And I though my goals of close to 300whp would be too much. :D
400whp is the goal. Mike K. thinks I will be in the 400whp-440whp with the setup I'm doing. It'll all be documented soon.
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
:eek: :eek: No kidding. That's some serious power there boy. And I though my goals of close to 300whp would be too much. :D
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by G-Forces
What? You making a baby? ;)
LOL... yeah planting the seed! :D
What? You making a baby? ;)
LOL... yeah planting the seed! :D
radicalG20
01-31-2002, 12:49 PM
Well, guys thanks for the input. I think I will go with the T3/T04E setup and I will also get the Cobra MAF w/50 lb. injectors. I will get the turbo on as soon as the car gets back from the tranny shop. (it's going in the last week of February for a tranny swap) I'm pretty sure that by going from a n/a with auto tranny to a turbo with manual tranny, there will be a pretty big difference...:D I still don't know if it will be enough to beat my dad's '97 Cobra......we'll just have to see
v_knot
01-31-2002, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
...and I will be there in spirit to support you achieve your goal!! :licker:
so you are going after 400+whp? OUCH! I will just stick to 300whp. I figure that should be enough to kick some good asses! Question. Are you doing any internal mods?
I just want an M5 whoopin car! :D
...and I will be there in spirit to support you achieve your goal!! :licker:
so you are going after 400+whp? OUCH! I will just stick to 300whp. I figure that should be enough to kick some good asses! Question. Are you doing any internal mods?
radicalG20
01-31-2002, 12:49 PM
Well, guys thanks for the input. I think I will go with the T3/T04E setup and I will also get the Cobra MAF w/50 lb. injectors. I will get the turbo on as soon as the car gets back from the tranny shop. (it's going in the last week of February for a tranny swap) I'm pretty sure that by going from a n/a with auto tranny to a turbo with manual tranny, there will be a pretty big difference...:D I still don't know if it will be enough to beat my dad's '97 Cobra......we'll just have to see
v_knot
01-31-2002, 02:05 PM
well best of luck and do keep us informed.
radicalG20
01-31-2002, 02:12 PM
Sorry for the repeat posts, I had a slight computer error....:o
Edit by b-b00gie : fixed! ;)
Edit by b-b00gie : fixed! ;)
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by v_knot
...and I will be there in spirit to support you achieve your goal!! :licker:
so you are going after 400+whp? OUCH! I will just stick to 300whp. I figure that should be enough to kick some good asses! Question. Are you doing any internal mods?
Yes. I was just going to do water injection in Jay Hass spirit, but decided I'd better do it the safer way even though it is way more expensive. :rolleyes:
...and I will be there in spirit to support you achieve your goal!! :licker:
so you are going after 400+whp? OUCH! I will just stick to 300whp. I figure that should be enough to kick some good asses! Question. Are you doing any internal mods?
Yes. I was just going to do water injection in Jay Hass spirit, but decided I'd better do it the safer way even though it is way more expensive. :rolleyes:
radicalG20
01-31-2002, 02:23 PM
Will you be at the Carlisle,PA import show in May? (If everything goes as planned) I will be there with the finished product.
b-b00gie
01-31-2002, 02:32 PM
Hmm.. I'll concider it. :cool:
v_knot
01-31-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
Yes. I was just going to do water injection in Jay Hass spirit, but decided I'd better do it the safer way even though it is way more expensive. :rolleyes:
Better to be safe than to be in a burning G! :p
Yes. I was just going to do water injection in Jay Hass spirit, but decided I'd better do it the safer way even though it is way more expensive. :rolleyes:
Better to be safe than to be in a burning G! :p
AznVirus
01-31-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
LOL... yeah planting the seed! :D
i believe the seed would be the turbo :D
LOL... yeah planting the seed! :D
i believe the seed would be the turbo :D
radicalG20
02-01-2002, 11:04 AM
Also get the exhaust housing extrude honed which will run you about $100.
Can I have hotshot do that, or will I have to take it to a shop to have it done?
Can I have hotshot do that, or will I have to take it to a shop to have it done?
b-b00gie
02-01-2002, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by radicalG20
Can I have hotshot do that, or will I have to take it to a shop to have it done?
Extrude Hone
8800 Somerset Blvd.
Paramount, CA 90723
562-531-2976
Going price has been $75 to get the exhaust housing done. There are other places but they charge WAY more...
Can I have hotshot do that, or will I have to take it to a shop to have it done?
Extrude Hone
8800 Somerset Blvd.
Paramount, CA 90723
562-531-2976
Going price has been $75 to get the exhaust housing done. There are other places but they charge WAY more...
radicalG20
02-01-2002, 03:59 PM
Thanks for the info Brain. I will give them a call :D
P10DET
02-01-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
Extrude Hone
8800 Somerset Blvd.
Paramount, CA 90723
562-531-2976
Going price has been $75 to get the exhaust housing done. There are other places but they charge WAY more...
Do me a favor and tell them you read about it in the SCC G20 DET swap article. :D
Extrude Hone
8800 Somerset Blvd.
Paramount, CA 90723
562-531-2976
Going price has been $75 to get the exhaust housing done. There are other places but they charge WAY more...
Do me a favor and tell them you read about it in the SCC G20 DET swap article. :D
b-b00gie
02-02-2002, 12:38 AM
Hehe.. I'll made a note of it in my "turbo notes" aka.. my new bible!! :D
v_knot
02-03-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
Hehe.. I'll made a note of it in my "turbo notes" aka.. my new bible!! :D
b-b00gie, is your "bible" on your site?
Hehe.. I'll made a note of it in my "turbo notes" aka.. my new bible!! :D
b-b00gie, is your "bible" on your site?
b-b00gie
02-03-2002, 02:43 PM
nope... not yet ;)
v_knot
02-05-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
nope... not yet ;)
Will it be posted?
Another question. I am going through the SE-R.net archives and recent postings to learn how to turbo up my G. Do you recommend that I should get a hold of the FSM in oder to complete understand some of the acronyms they used in the conversation? I think this would be an ideal start.
nope... not yet ;)
Will it be posted?
Another question. I am going through the SE-R.net archives and recent postings to learn how to turbo up my G. Do you recommend that I should get a hold of the FSM in oder to complete understand some of the acronyms they used in the conversation? I think this would be an ideal start.
b-b00gie
02-05-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by v_knot
Will it be posted?
Yep... just give me time to take all my notes and organize them...
Originally posted by v_knot
Another question. I am going through the SE-R.net archives and recent postings to learn how to turbo up my G. Do you recommend that I should get a hold of the FSM in oder to complete understand some of the acronyms they used in the conversation? I think this would be an ideal start.
I definately recommend getting one. You can learn SO much just be looking at pictures. You learn how things are connected together, how they work, and how to fix things...
Its basically everything you NEVER wanted to know about your car if you're the "step on the gas and go, when it comes to cars that's all I know"-type of person.
Will it be posted?
Yep... just give me time to take all my notes and organize them...
Originally posted by v_knot
Another question. I am going through the SE-R.net archives and recent postings to learn how to turbo up my G. Do you recommend that I should get a hold of the FSM in oder to complete understand some of the acronyms they used in the conversation? I think this would be an ideal start.
I definately recommend getting one. You can learn SO much just be looking at pictures. You learn how things are connected together, how they work, and how to fix things...
Its basically everything you NEVER wanted to know about your car if you're the "step on the gas and go, when it comes to cars that's all I know"-type of person.
v_knot
02-05-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by b-b00gie
I definately recommend getting one. You can learn SO much just be looking at pictures. You learn how things are connected together, how they work, and how to fix things...
Its basically everything you NEVER wanted to know about your car if you're the "step on the gas and go, when it comes to cars that's all I know"-type of person.
hahehahe...funny how you mentioned that! I am rocket scientist by paper but not necessary a mechanic. See the differences? Brian, I graduated from the aerospace engineering program and my biggest interest is turbojet engines and rockets. In other words, I got the theoretical under my belt. Practicality and hands-on stuffs, I am getting there.... :)
Thanks for the tips, I guess it is worth while buying the FSM.
I definately recommend getting one. You can learn SO much just be looking at pictures. You learn how things are connected together, how they work, and how to fix things...
Its basically everything you NEVER wanted to know about your car if you're the "step on the gas and go, when it comes to cars that's all I know"-type of person.
hahehahe...funny how you mentioned that! I am rocket scientist by paper but not necessary a mechanic. See the differences? Brian, I graduated from the aerospace engineering program and my biggest interest is turbojet engines and rockets. In other words, I got the theoretical under my belt. Practicality and hands-on stuffs, I am getting there.... :)
Thanks for the tips, I guess it is worth while buying the FSM.
b-b00gie
02-05-2002, 09:25 AM
I would recommend the printed version.. not CD version. ;)
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