So.. Which Gen?

*PLEASE READ PROJECT CYBER CIVIC AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM*

Since this is the 92+ Civic forum, we need to focus on 5th and 6th gen if we could please. Both chassis easily swap in B-series motors and are easily attainable.

Let's give the pro's and con's about each chassis, and vote in the poll on which you would think would be better. Please give the best insight that you can into your opinion.

:D

I would have to say 5 gen its llighter and has a shorter wheel base IMO has better lines, there cleaner!

5th gen hatch, cx or vx

cheap and light

I've gotta play the devil's advocate here...

But why not 6th gen? IMO you can make the hatches look way better than the 5th gens. We can also fit them with TypeR pieces if we decide to take the TypeR route to building the car. We could pick a CX up fairly cheaply as well.

6th gen coupe, it's got it all, plush ride, double wishbones, huge aftermarket support, good weight, everyday practicality, u name it the 6th gen's got it :D

Since this car will also have body work done to it (I'm assuming, anyway), I don't think a couple hundred pounds will really matter that much. In that case, I vote for the 6th Gen, and a hatch to be more specific. I really like the idea of mixing in some JDM OEM parts, and that's harder to do with a 5th Gen. Also, 6th Gens are a little fresher looking, and the interior is nicer. Don't get me wrong, the 5th Gens are great, but I like the looks of a 6th Gen a little better.

6th gen, they look awesome when you mod them and they are newer

Ok first off, I'm having a real problem grasping WHAT THE **** all this cyber stuff is but let me rant for a bit. If we're going to talk about the pro's and con's of each chasis, we can't talk about opinion, cause opinions are like assholes and differing opinions won't solve anything.

Let's compare. The main things that the 5th gen chasis has are two things. Weight and Price. Now considering that you're going to load this thing up with equipment of all types and you're gonna spends thoudands on motor mods, as mentioned, 1 or 2 hundred pounds shouldn't outweigh the other pro's the 6th gens might have. Second, they are older, so price is gonna be obviously lower. But is the lower price enough to outweigh everything else. You could get a 96-98 civic Cx or Dx or for damn near the same price you coud get a 94 or 95. I mean you could get a 92 or 93 Cx for atleast a grand or 2 but you'd be starting off with a lower level chasis with no add-ons and a big possibility of greater wear on vital components.

One of the cons of the 5th gens is the slightly dated look of the 5th gen. It may look simple and classic but, it is early 90's. The 6th gens agreeably have a more modern and wild look. The proportions are larger in every way and the edges are more rounded. The 6th gen exterior lends itself more to the wilder "show" look.

As far as performance goes, both generations have the same modability. They both have every performance component possible available to them. They both accomodate D, B and H series engines with the same ease and have turbo's, supercharges, and other crap plentiful.


So, in conclusion, what do we have? We have three major areas. First is price, Second is Performance, Third is Show. The 5th gen wins in price but shopping around for an early 6th gen will get you the same price. They're both equal in performance upgradability but the 5th gens are generally lighter in wight giving them a slight advantage. And the 6th generation civic wins in the show department in both stock body and available show upgrades such as body kits.

My opinion: Considering they're both the same in performance upgradability and the weight difference in the 5th gen is negligable when large mods are in order, and considering the extra price we pay for the 6th gen could get a newer, better looking body with less wear. The ultimate civic should be made from the 6th generation civic base, and my own little personal addition: It should be a hatchback. The hatchback was the start and meaning of the "pocket rocket" movement. Small, light and sporty looking cars that have the ability to be every bit as good as sports cars.

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
The hatchback was the start and meaning of the "pocket rocket" movement. Small, light and sporty looking cars that have the ability to be every bit as good as sports cars.

I think credit should also be given to the Miata for the whole "pocket rocket" thing.

But yes I agree completely with what Rice-Rocketeer said. That's what I wanted to say...but I couldn't quite get it all down so nicely :D.

Yet another reason why the 6th Gen should be it:

Originally posted by delsolguy
I think credit should also be given to the Miata for the whole "pocket rocket" thing.

Actually VW beetles and early golf gti hatchbacks are what I would give credit to for the "pocket rocket" movement. By the time the miata came out in late 80's early 90's, ppl had been swaping engines into 4th gen Civics and Crx (Both hatches mind you) for a decent amount of time.

this is whats ALWAYS going to happen.. When the 6th gens FIRST came out everyone said "I like the 5th gens better" now that the 6ths have been out for awhile, and the 7ths are out. More people are buyin the 6th gens.. So know everyone is going to say the 6th gen. Sooner or later, im sure many people will come around to liking the 7th gen COUPE(i wont get around to likin the hatch or sedan) Then people will say the 7th gen when the 8th gen comes out(hoefully its better than 7th) well say 7th etc...

No, actually everyone you're talking about there is considering ONLY looks. Whether or not the 7th gen civic looks better is irrelevant. They changed the suspension for the worse, they made the engine bay more cramped and then crippled it with OBD3 and then made the looks more conservative. It'll be a dark day for honda when the 7th gen turns out to be the better choice for modifications.

Point taken about the VWs, Rice-Rocketeer.

Any speculation about swapping a K20C (RSX-S) into a 7th Gen Civic chassis? Do you think this is possible? It's a shame that aftermarket development for the K20C hasn't had a chance to get going...it seems to respond quite well to intakes...I'm curious as to the results of internal work or FI.

I dunno about going into K20's just yet since there is NO info at all about them, muchless online retailers for us to find who has the cheapest price on the motors. Thats why I figured 5th or 6th gen would be best for this project.

Attention Everyone!

This phase will end on January 6, 2002 just so you peeps know.

Originally posted by delsolguy
Any speculation about swapping a K20C (RSX-S) into a 7th Gen Civic chassis? Do you think this is possible? It's a shame that aftermarket development for the K20C hasn't had a chance to get going...it seems to respond quite well to intakes...I'm curious as to the results of internal work or FI.

As Jon said, it's just too new. To find out, there'd have to be someone with enoug to money to buy a new civic AND find an engine from an RSX that's been junked. Obviously, very expensive AND rare things to find. But totall going on speculation, all these engines coming out are a new generation of honda technology. The fact that the new Civic Si engine and the RSX engine "have similarities" isn't just coincedence. I'm sure they're totally interchangable and will only be a matter of time until someone has the money to do so. And the engines will not only respond well to intakes, the new i-Vtec system will let them respond well to alot of different components. But one thing I'm not too happy about is I'm sure the VTC system coupled with the OBD3 system will complicate things SO much worse. They have the capability for even more power compared to thier B-series brethren but you can bet you're ass it won't be as easy as strapping an intake to a B-series.

This is just the beginning. The next step on the honda horizon is a 1.5l DI. Direct Injection. They will change the position the fuel injector from the intake manifold to directly into the combustion chamber, pointing down, in place of the spark plug. Combined with a form of Vtec-E, they run the engine at an EXTREMELY lean mixture without fear of engine damage.

The only problem with all the new, smaller, leaner, more effecient technology that Honda is developing is the problem that's always plagued us. How we change an ultra-effecient gas sipper into a 300hp beast :cool:

I didn't really mean to say that I think the 7th Gen ought to be included (since everything would be sooo expensive), I was just curious since we were sorta on the subject of the new cars and their mod potential.

As for the new Honda engines...we'll just have to rev 'em to 14 grand and maybe we'll see some power ;).

Originally posted by delsolguy
I didn't really mean to say that I think the 7th Gen ought to be included (since everything would be sooo expensive), I was just curious since we were sorta on the subject of the new cars and their mod potential.

I know, I just wanted to rant :)

that's an interesting prospect... an RSX engine into my 2K1... i might have to look into that...

hey rice, is it a waste of my time and money? should i let someone else pioneer that direction?:smoka:

Well unless you have 10g's to spend on both engine and work to get it in there, AND have the possibility of failing and having your car tore up permamnently, then yeah, Go for it! :)

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Well unless you have 10g's to spend on both engine and work to get it in there, AND have the possibility of failing and having your car tore up permamnently, then yeah, Go for it! :)

allllllll-righty-then!:D
(damnit, being broke sux!:mad: )

5th gen hatch all the way!!!!!:frog:

well the 6th gen is winning in the polls. That's different from what I figured.

If anyone cares, I vote 6gen. I also think it should be a coupe, since the whole fast hatchback thing is a bit cliche to me, but thats just personal opinion. Based on the facts however, if you just want a Civic shell, either generation is a wash, but if you are looking for a particular style, or perhaps power everything, A/C and moonroof.....6gen ;)

I'd say 6th gen hatch... more plush interior and bigger engine bay, easier to work on. plus their roomier, im sure this guy wants a car that he can keep for a while. this was my hatch before it was stolen... although not in the pic, i had all the black trim, handles, and license plate bezel painted body color... asses stole my dream car!

how'd it get stolen

It was stolen while I was in Hot Import Nights at seattle... I was in the show running the 3DMaxGraphix booth for about 6 hours... came outside to a wonderful suprise of not seeing my car.

i would say a 6th gen. Civic is a good car to start off with for the reason because that it has a nice clean look and a wide variety of aftermarket parts that a 6th gen Civic has, but for speed i would say a 5th gen Civic 93' hatch because its pretty light.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Ok first off, I'm having a real problem grasping WHAT THE **** all this cyber stuff is but let me rant for a bit. If we're going to talk about the pro's and con's of each chasis, we can't talk about opinion, cause opinions are like assholes and differing opinions won't solve anything.

Let's compare. The main things that the 5th gen chasis has are two things. Weight and Price. Now considering that you're going to load this thing up with equipment of all types and you're gonna spends thoudands on motor mods, as mentioned, 1 or 2 hundred pounds shouldn't outweigh the other pro's the 6th gens might have. Second, they are older, so price is gonna be obviously lower. But is the lower price enough to outweigh everything else. You could get a 96-98 civic Cx or Dx or for damn near the same price you coud get a 94 or 95. I mean you could get a 92 or 93 Cx for atleast a grand or 2 but you'd be starting off with a lower level chasis with no add-ons and a big possibility of greater wear on vital components.

One of the cons of the 5th gens is the slightly dated look of the 5th gen. It may look simple and classic but, it is early 90's. The 6th gens agreeably have a more modern and wild look. The proportions are larger in every way and the edges are more rounded. The 6th gen exterior lends itself more to the wilder "show" look.

As far as performance goes, both generations have the same modability. They both have every performance component possible available to them. They both accomodate D, B and H series engines with the same ease and have turbo's, supercharges, and other crap plentiful.


So, in conclusion, what do we have? We have three major areas. First is price, Second is Performance, Third is Show. The 5th gen wins in price but shopping around for an early 6th gen will get you the same price. They're both equal in performance upgradability but the 5th gens are generally lighter in wight giving them a slight advantage. And the 6th generation civic wins in the show department in both stock body and available show upgrades such as body kits.

My opinion: Considering they're both the same in performance upgradability and the weight difference in the 5th gen is negligable when large mods are in order, and considering the extra price we pay for the 6th gen could get a newer, better looking body with less wear. The ultimate civic should be made from the 6th generation civic base, and my own little personal addition: It should be a hatchback. The hatchback was the start and meaning of the "pocket rocket" movement. Small, light and sporty looking cars that have the ability to be every bit as good as sports cars.

In your 2nd to last paragraph, you said "And the 6th generation civic wins in the shw department in both stock body". Now THAT is YOUR OPINION and the LAST PARAGRAPH is your opinion. And until the last paragraph, you were talking about the FACTS. Don't wanna start no bs or nothin. just take it easy ok? Everyone always seems to get on me on stuff like this.

Take it easy? Who's bug did you get up your ass?? Have you even peeked your head out of that hole of yours and looked around. Tell me the year of the majority of civics that are at shows like HIN?? 6th gens. The fact that 6th gens are better show vehicles are about as well known on the playing field as altezza's are played out. I already stated why the 6th gens lend themselves more to the wild show look. And the majority of 5th gens at the shows are going for the anti-show JDM look. And then there's the small minority of ppl who wish to make the 5th gens as wild as the 6th gens.

Yes it is an opinion. The opinion of the overall civic crowd.

6th gen

Hanguk:

If you notice, the last paragraph that Rice posted started with "My Opinion:".

ok first of all im shocked and appalled that 6th gen is winning. come on everybody know 5th is cheaper and looks alot sportier than 6th. no offensive 6th gen people i still like your cars just not nearly as much as fifth.

i say 6th gen. sure the 5th is lighter but we arent trying to build an all out drag car so it really doesnt matter. also face it, the condition of a lot of 5th gens is marginal to poor in the body, interior, engine bay departments most of the time from poor ownership. so it will be a lot easier to locate a 6th gen that is mint all around with a blown motor since everyone and thier mom is looking for a 5th gen hatch to turn into a rocket with another in heavy demand b18c swap. not to mention the amount of 6th gen owners i have seen selling thier cars and parting them out for bigger better things recently (like myself). which means parts trader parts allowing us to work with the money a little easier. also with thre 6th gen you wont have to worry about peripheral shit going wrong like brake lines and master cylinders and shit like that as much as its aging 5th gen brother will have to worry.


dont get me wrong i like 5th gens alot but it seems like it would be a more time consuming and possibly financially consuming option then the 6th gen.

I propose a compromise:

96 version civic, coupe style. (USA)

Has basic 5th gen looks, with 6th gen functionality.

Correct? I think I am, not for sure.

I just really can't stand the 6th gen headlights; they are sooooo ugly to me. I don't care who agrees, IMO they suck.

I am a little biased tward 5th gen, cuz I own one, but my dad had a 6th gen, and it specifically was junk. Broke down, looked like smiling hyena, and not anymore comfortable than the 5th gen. And it was more expensive.

You wanted my $.02, there it is.

btw- why couldn't we build it? We could all send you some money, and you make it. Shoot, $100 from each of us would more than cover it.

Heh heh, like ANYONE would pitch in :)

Originally posted by Darkwing
btw- why couldn't we build it? We could all send you some money, and you make it. Shoot, $100 from each of us would more than cover it.

Heh heh, like ANYONE would pitch in :)

who would be the owner of it? kinda hard to apply for a title with the names of 250 people from 37 different states and 3 different countries. :D

Originally posted by Darkwing
I propose a compromise:

96 version civic, coupe style. (USA)

Has basic 5th gen looks, with 6th gen functionality.

Correct? I think I am, not for sure.



um...how so? 6th gen= 96~00, so how would a 96 coupe have "basic 5th gen looks" ??? :confused:

how come so many people want hatchbacks?

ok, I hate to go technical on everyone but if we want to do a swap we want to do 5th gen. becuase 5th gen is OBD1, we do not want to deal with OBD2, to much haggle and all that, I mean, if we want to do this from realistic standards...the 5th gen would be cheaper also and that way we could put more money into the modding. But that is my 2 cents....

Originally posted by gang$tarr
how come so many people want hatchbacks?

Because Hatches go faster. And some people actually think they look good. but I like the coupe more.

Originally posted by RevHappy Cowboy®


um...how so? 6th gen= 96~00, so how would a 96 coupe have "basic 5th gen looks" ??? :confused:

If you have ever seen a 1996 civic coupe, it can eisily be mistaken for a 5th gen. The only real noticeable exterior difference is the headlights. (I think I said the headlights were the same, my bad; it's the tail lights that are the same). The body flow goes more to the tune of the 5th gen., but I guess that is just my opinion.


And in response to the above post, I like the coupes better, even though stock hatches are faster.

Actually, the whole body of a '96 is different than a '95. The 6th Gens are broken up into two groups, the '96-'98 cars and the '99-'00 cars. The newer ones had a slightly different front end, and probably a few other minor changes that I don't know about. But what it comes down to is that the '96-'98 cars look much different than the '92-'95. In my opinion at least. Not only the headlights, but the tailights (yes, they are different), windows, fenders, etc. are different.

Originally posted by Darkwing

If you have ever seen a 1996 civic coupe, it can eisily be mistaken for a 5th gen. The only real noticeable exterior difference is the headlights. (I think I said the headlights were the same, my bad; it's the tail lights that are the same). The body flow goes more to the tune of the 5th gen., but I guess that is just my opinion.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=146689
vs
http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0KABPUmwNpgV4ieUAk0KDQJWxcPKEt4vBA20W9H6queLRzsrbB xfb3u1H6No56MKKZ1xctKD0u88/Si4.jpg

i dunno.. doesnt really look like it. The 6th gens are more aggressive looking. Sure mines a 2000, but its close enuff to a 96-98 style to make a comparison.

ok here:

96

http://www.kbb.com/nctdpics/96cvc_e_.jpg

and

95

(see sig)

well, dangit, they do look similar, but I can't find similar pics!!

anyway, it doesn't really matter. The point of this post isn't whether 96 is a cross between 5th and 6th gen like I believe or not, its about which gen. I was just trying to find a compromise.

Yeah that's cool man. I probably could've been nicer about saying what I did, but I was in a bad mood.

No hard feelings :)

I voted for the 6Gen, but for the coupe rather than the HB. It is a better looking car, IMO of course. I've owned both and the 6Gen coupe is the nicest Civic out there, plus like others have said, going with a 6Gen gives you the extras like nicer interior etc.

Originally posted by TheMasterG
I voted for the 6Gen, but for the coupe rather than the HB. It is a better looking car, IMO of course. I've owned both and the 6Gen coupe is the nicest Civic out there, plus like others have said, going with a 6Gen gives you the extras like nicer interior etc.
well if we replace the interior with racing seats or pleather it or something does it really matter what we started with, lol.

Originally posted by sweetcarz.com

well if we replace the interior with racing seats or pleather it or something does it really matter what we started with, lol.
It's not just the seats though, dash, door trim etc. Sure it can all be changed but sometimes it's just not necessary if you start with something good.

Originally posted by delsolguy
Yeah that's cool man. I probably could've been nicer about saying what I did, but I was in a bad mood.

No hard feelings :)

nah, no hard feelings at all. I was a little frustrated though that I couldn't find any good pics of a 96. It's all cyber anyway :p

:D:D

i voted for the 5th gen cause i think it looks better and would be a better platform to mod whether it's a hatch or coupe. for some reason whenever i think of wanting a 6th gen i see a sedan with black widow kit and 18's. more of a show than go type of thing all because the 6th gen seems to be more luxury than the 5th

Originally posted by GScivic7
i voted for the 5th gen cause i think it looks better and would be a better platform to mod whether it's a hatch or coupe. for some reason whenever i think of wanting a 6th gen i see a sedan with black widow kit and 18's. more of a show than go type of thing all because the 6th gen seems to be more luxury than the 5th \

:wave: that is what I am sayin!

Which is exactly why I prefer the 6th gen FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. I still personally like 5th gens better.

But if BOTH cars have the ability to go as fast as the other BUT the 6th gen has better looks, Shouldn't the ultimate civic be all show AND all go. 5th gen speed with 6th gen looks. I'm not seeing any drawbacks here.

This isn't strictly a race car here ppl.

ok ok I was wrong.....lol, I do not agree with him, it was to early in the morning.......I want 5th gen. becuase everything is tigher on the 5th gen, 6th gen's are slow and fugly. Plus the 5th gen. is OBDI.

how come nobody likes 7th gen??

i'm not sayin i like them, i'm just wondering?

I thought we were going to do body modifications on this car...if so, why would we need to get a car that is in absolute perfect condition.....get a 92 hatch for $2000, you can find them easily for this much with a clean body...all we need is a rolling chassis...we don't need brakes, interior, engine, etc...I was under the impression that we would be making a car basically from scratch...in this case, we would be replacing everything from the ground up....hell, you can find a beat up hatch for $500...can't beat that

Originally posted by gang$tarr
how come nobody likes 7th gen?
i'm just wondering

Originally posted by gang$tarr
how come nobody likes 7th gen??

i'm not sayin i like them, i'm just wondering?

Personally, I just think its ugly.

isnt it time for the next stage of the game?