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Old 02-25-2023, 06:07 PM   #1
Jon Bailey
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What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

Seriously folks, what will happen for transportation when all fossil fuels are gone? Somebody had better think of something.

Battery technology not looking good so far. It won't be long before all gasoline cars become antiques.
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Old 02-26-2023, 06:58 AM   #2
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

We won't run out of "fossil fuels", at least not anytime in the near future. Oil fields said to have been dry in the 70s are pumping more oil now than they did back then. Oil is not made of fossilized dinosaurs.
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Old 02-26-2023, 09:45 PM   #3
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

This source says about 50 more years of petroleum at the rate it is being used now.

https://www.zmescience.com/science/n...ls-last-43432/

Clearly, before this century is over, something has to have largely replaced it by then.
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Old 02-27-2023, 09:49 AM   #4
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

I have to wonder how air travel would be affected. I know there ARE experimental electric aircraft, but with nowhere near the capabilities of kerosene-powered versions.
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Old 02-27-2023, 11:11 AM   #5
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

There is enough barrels of oil already drilled to last 50 years, and they are still drilling more every day.
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Old 02-27-2023, 03:32 PM   #6
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

The known reserves of petroleum are greater today than were available in 1974. It is likely partially due to us being better at finding oil, and possibly due to the fact that petroleum may not be a finite resource, but is continuously generating. The trick is not taking it out faster than it regenerates.

The REAL trick would be to use the NASA technology of hydrogen fuel cells to make electricity while charging an electric vehicle battery. Unfortunately, since that is public domain and "old" technology (from 1964) no one can patent it and thus can't make ridiculous profits like pharmaceutical companies do on medications.
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Old 02-28-2023, 03:58 PM   #7
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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I have to wonder how air travel would be affected. I know there ARE experimental electric aircraft, but with nowhere near the capabilities of kerosene-powered versions.
Yup.

If we ran out now, or even in the next 50 years, aviation would take a hit; right now there's not enough stored energy in batteries to fly an airliner any distance. A couple of battery powered smaller aircraft (15 seats I think?) with 45 minutes of range are flying. BUT to fly in bad weather you need at least a 45 minute reserve, so under current rules those aircraft would be grounded when clouds and fog appeared. (Even in good weather they'd be required to have a 30 minute reserve....making 15 minute hops across the country with long battery recharge times would be horrid and not worth it)


IMO there's plenty of oil left, it's just harder to locate and pull out. But since it's not an infinite supply:

Bio is starting to ramp up. United has some test aircraft using 50/50 jet fuel and bio. If we can get enough algae pools producing bio then will never worry about it.

Then there's other undiscovered sources. Lots of advances have been made in superconductivity for example, which would make batteries' power last much longer. It's just a matter of time. And I'd bet that the oil companies already have the "next energy source" locked away and ready to go.
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Old 03-06-2023, 08:50 PM   #8
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

As we gradually deplete our reserves of fossil fuels, there are several potential solutions to power our cars:

Electric vehicles: The most widely discussed alternative to fossil-fuel-powered cars is electric vehicles (EVs), which run on electricity generated by batteries. EVs are already available in the market and are becoming increasingly popular due to advances in battery technology and lower costs.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles: Another alternative to fossil fuels is hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs), which generate electricity through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen. FCVs produce only water as a byproduct, making them a very clean alternative to traditional gasoline-powered vehicles.

Biofuels: Biofuels are produced from renewable sources such as corn, soybeans, and sugarcane. These fuels can be used in existing internal combustion engines with minor modifications, providing an alternative to traditional gasoline or diesel fuel.

Public transportation: Encouraging the use of public transportation such as buses and trains can reduce the need for personal cars and decrease our reliance on fossil fuels.

Alternative transportation modes: Alternatives such as walking, biking, or using electric scooters can also reduce our reliance on personal cars, and thereby decrease the demand for fossil fuels.

Overall, the solution to our dependence on fossil fuels in cars will likely involve a combination of these strategies, as well as continued technological advancements and policy changes to encourage their adoption.
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Old 03-07-2023, 07:23 AM   #9
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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As we gradually deplete our reserves of fossil fuels, there are several potential solutions to power our cars:

Electric vehicles: The most widely discussed alternative to fossil-fuel-powered cars is electric vehicles (EVs), which run on electricity generated by batteries.
Welcome Aboard!

There is one small technical error in that statement. Unless they are used for one cycle then discarded, vehicle batteries do not "generate" electricity, but merely store it. The electricity used to charge them must be generated by some other means, which does nothing to reduce overall energy demand.
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Old 03-07-2023, 08:04 AM   #10
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Cool Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie View Post
Welcome Aboard!

There is one small technical error in that statement. Unless they are used
for one cycle then discarded, vehicle batteries do not "generate" electricity,
but merely store it. The electricity used to charge them must be generated
by some other means, which does nothing to reduce overall energy demand.


If regenerative brakes are still a thing, how much current do they 'put back' during a typical drive?

Also, I'm sure the idea of reciprocal charging - obtaining chargeback simply from the rolling wheels - is being explored.
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Old 03-07-2023, 09:27 PM   #11
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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Also, I'm sure the idea of reciprocal charging - obtaining chargeback simply from the rolling wheels - is being explored.
I'm not sure how efficient regenerative braking is, but the description of reciprocal charging here is essentially regenerative braking. Converting rotating motion to electricity requires energy, and therefore slows the vehicle. More energy would need to be used to overcome the slowing effect of the "reciprocal charging" and there are losses due to friction and heat. So the vehicle would actually deplete more charge from the batter than it would receive back to maintain a constant speed. Even if the system were 100% efficient at "reciprocal charging" there would be no net benefit.

I understand the concern for fossil fuels becoming depleted, but why are the environmentalists not raising concern for the lithium reserves being depleted, or the tremendous damage done to the environments where lithium is being mined? That seems more destructive than drilling a hole deep into the ground, and is also not an unlimited resource. While I really like many of the electrical vehicle options available currently, I don't see them as a long-term solution versus an ICE. But as they become more and more popular, the battery technology will continue to be developed, and there are probably several cool techniques yet to be discovered.

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Old 03-17-2023, 12:21 AM   #12
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

We have hundreds of years worth of known fossil fuel reserves and humans are not causing the planet to warm. Earth has feedback mechanisms to counteract the tiny amount of CO2 we've added to the atmosphere over the last 150 years (1.4 parts out of 10,000).
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Old 03-17-2023, 07:14 AM   #13
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Cool Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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We have hundreds of years worth of known fossil fuel reserves and humans are not causing the planet to warm. Earth has feedback mechanisms to counteract the tiny amount of CO2 we've added to the atmosphere over the last 150 years (1.4 parts out of 10,000).

It’s not so much warming as it is a shift in when and where weather is occurring.

I have lived in New England all my life, fifty plus years, and two things I have noticed:

Leaf raking season has slowly shifted to later in the year, from October to early December.

The snowiest part of our winters in Connecticut have also shifted, from January to March.

And look at California: More rain and snow in parts of that state, from 2021-present, than during the previous century.

The world in general is becoming a windier place, due to accelerated deforestation, and not just in the Amazon region. Large stands of trees do have a braking effect on the winds and weather. Once they are reduced, weather patterns enlarge, and winds become stronger.

Incidents of severe, injury-causing turbulence during commercial flights are increasing.

Those are but a few examples of what is really happening, as a result of human c02 emissions, as well as deforestation.

The mass media’s words have power, and their phrase “global warming”, has misled, most likely by accident, millions of people into believing in this overall “warming up” of our planet.
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Old 03-17-2023, 12:03 PM   #14
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Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

The earth is cyclical. It would be having all of these variations in weather patterns with or without human existence.
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Old 03-17-2023, 12:56 PM   #15
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Cool Re: What will we do when we run out of fossil fuels?

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The earth is cyclical. It would be having all of these variations in
weather patterns with or without human existence.
I think human activity is also affecting climate patterns, perhaps causing wiggles in those long-term variations.
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