headlight flicker

[kmohr3]

I am slowly but surely noticing some of the problems talked about here. Tonight I noticed the headlight flicker about 3 times in a couple of minutes. I'm not sure whether to subscribe to the electric air pump theory or the bad alternator theory. I guess I won't worry about it until I have problems starting it.

[paulkramer]

Much has been discussed about this problem. If you look at older threads you will see that GM is "aware" of this alternator issue, though officially they state that this is "normal" behavior. That didn't stop them from redesigning this alternator however. It just means that those of us with the misfortune of purchasing cars with the crappy alternator are stuck with it unless we want to fork out the $$ for replacement.

My '00 has 67K on it with original alternator and battery and haven't had any troubles starting it yet.

[illinoiswronski]

In my car it only happens when it is cold out - less than freezing. The colder it gets the worse it is until the engine warms up. I did notice that turning off the fog lights to reduce the load eases the problem a bit.

[ttbit]

Just had my car in for service 4 days ago to replace the alternator. It was under warranty from the last time they serviced it, so they said they would do it for free.

$220 later (Dealership) they replaced it and a friggen positive cable. Here we are 3 days later and the flickering is back. This is not just a headlight problem, but a complete breakdown of the charging system. It left my wife stranded on Christmas Eve. I drove it and saw it act up so I pulled into a parking lot and checked the voltage. Sure enough, my battery was getting killed. It is sitting back at the Dealership now...and of course, they were closed today.

Once they get it fixed, I am selling it. $5000 obo.(need to pay it off) 2000 Dark Green 83,000 miles. Cloth interior. Runs great when it is charging.

My wife doesn't want to get rid of it, but I am going to give her my Lincoln LS and get a 2005 Mustang (maybe).

[panzer dragoon]

The alternator has been redesigned and there is a new part number. The electrical field was collapsing due to engine vibration.

From alldatadiy.com:

2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue V6-214 3.5L VIN H SFI

Top - Vehicle
Starting and Charging
. Charging System
. . Alternator
. . . Technical Service Bulletins
. . . . All Technical Service Bulletins
. . . . . Headlamps/Interior Lamps - Dim Intermittently

.



Notes


Headlamps/Interior Lamps - Dim Intermittently

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 01-06-03-001A

Date: April, 2002

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Headlamps/Interior Lights Dim Intermittently in Cold Weather
(Replace Generator)

Models:
1999-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue with 3.5L V6 Engine
(VIN H - RPO LX5)

This bulletin is being revised to add VIN breakpoints and to include information on 2001-2002 vehicles which may exhibit a similar condition. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-03-001 (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System.

Condition

Important: Short term voltage drops (flickers/fluctuations of lights) may occur whenever high demands are placed on the vehicle's electrical system. This is considered a normal generator output characteristic and a repair may not be necessary. Some owners of the 1999-2001 model year Oldsmobile Intrigue built prior to VIN breakpoints 1F237068 may comment on an intermittent condition where the headlamps or interior lights may dim intermittently. This condition may also be noted in the blower speed slowing or changing pitch intermittently. Some 2001-2002 model year vehicles built after the VIN breakpoints may exhibit a similar condition.

Cause

On 1999-2001 vehicles built before the VIN breakpoints, this condition may be caused by intermittent low voltage. Transient engine vibrations may induce the generator to experience field discontinuity. This state results in a voltage spike that causes the voltage regulator to reset. During this period, the electrical system drops to battery voltage.

On 2001-2002 vehicles built after the VIN breakpoints, the voltage drop may be due to the electric AIR (Air Injector Reactor) pump cycling. This electric pump causes a large current draw when it starts.

Important: At no time during the above conditions will the headlamps go out.

Correction

On 1999-2001 vehicles built before the VIN breakpoints, replace the generator with a revised generator, P/N 10464469, that has circuitry to inhibit the voltage regulator reset condition. Use the procedure below to replace the generator.

On 2001-2002 models built after the VIN breakpoints, do not attempt any repair to the vehicle. This is a normal condition of the vehicle and does not indicate the need for service. If the customer requires reassurance that this is a normal condition, please refer to the AIR pump demonstration section below.

Important: 2000 model year California and Northeast states emission equipped vehicles and all 2001 Intrigues are equipped with the electric AIR pump. After generator replacement, these vehicles may still exhibit very short dips and/or headlamp dimming due to the AIR pump cycling. Refer to DTC P0410 in the Engine Controls sub-section. If the generator has been replaced, any short term headlamp dip should be considered normal. If the customer returns a vehicle that has been corrected with a generator replacement, you may reassure the customer by demonstrating the condition. Refer to the AIR pump demonstration section.

[panzer dragoon]

I have the same car as you with about 80,000 miles. Dark green 2000 Intrigue. Make sure you get the redesigned alternator #10464469 and not the old part #.

[ttbit]

Originally Posted by panzer dragoon

I have the same car as you with about 80,000 miles. Dark green 2000 Intrigue. Make sure you get the redesigned alternator #10464469 and not the old part #.

Thank you.

[panzer dragoon]

the new alternator is also much cheaper than the old one (imagine that). Goto GMpartsdirect.

Maybe there is some way for us to damper the alternator so the vibrations don't get to it. This whole vibration thing sounds like it could be BS from GM for a faulty alternator design to begin with.

I have never seen an older-style alternator fail from vibration. And the 3.5L is a pretty smooth engine.

[ttbit]

Originally Posted by panzer dragoon

I have never seen an older-style alternator fail from vibration. And the 3.5L is a pretty smooth engine.

I believe it to be total BS. There is something else causing these things to fail. My wife's car broke down and left her and my son stranded an hour ago. I am severely pissed right now.

I might help in destroying my country's economy and look at an import today. My wife has her eye on a 2001 Maxima with 54,000 miles on it. I would rather get another Lincoln LS, but I am not sure I trust the reliability on those yet either.

WOW is this frutrating. Anyone want to buy my Intrigue right now? If it was my car, I could live with it. I should have my LS back together tonight and will give her that for now.

[kmohr3]

How much for the Intrigue as is? What city and state are you in? Still, I would think the dealership would have some liabilty here, apparently they are mis-diagnosing. Keep in mind what I said about the PCM. Also ask them if the system is setting any codes, and find out what they are.

[ttbit]

Originally Posted by kmohr3

How much for the Intrigue as is? What city and state are you in? Still, I would think the dealership would have some liabilty here, apparently they are mis-diagnosing. Keep in mind what I said about the PCM. Also ask them if the system is setting any codes, and find out what they are.

I mentioned the PCM and how it is tied in. They really don't like advice there. I tried to explain to them that I have been doing this crap for years also. I guess it is like someone telling me about how I should set up their computer because they had a friend tell them it should be that way. (I am a systems admin).

We still owe $4200 on the car. I would take that or something close to it. I am in Knoxville, TN. I found a good deal on another car I would really like, but have to decide tomorrow on it, so I am not sure if I am going to be able to get it.

Email me if you would like. I think you have my correct address now.

Thanks again.

[ttbit]

I gave them a new battery and they can't get it to act up now. I will pick it up Monday and test again.

[ttbit]

hahahhahaha...It was acting up again tonight so my wife said screw it and we drove it to the dealer and they are buying it from us. What can I say, except....dangit (well I would say worse) she is taking my LS! Now I have to drive my supercharged Mustang until I find something.

Thanks to all for the help here. If the deal falls through, I will drive the car for awhile and troubleshoot it myself.

[redly1]

I wonder if a big capacitor (like the kids with their big stereos have) would reduce/eliminate the problem

[n0rt0n]

Originally Posted by redly1

I wonder if a big capacitor (like the kids with their big stereos have) would reduce/eliminate the problem

I have a 2001 Olds Intrigue and I think thats an amazing thought. Those capacitors would totally ELIMINATE the extreme draw on the system. BTW, the dealer here in SE Michigan is saying that the VOLTAGE REGULATOR was of a WEAK design in the old alternator.

What me and you(I believe you are on the same page as me)are saying is that a capacitor smartly placed in the system would Eliminate the high draw situation and the regulator won't have to TRY hard to keep up with the current demands. What the "kids" are also doing to thwart high demand voltage drops is supplement the "THICK" wires in the engine bay. Those are the wires that carry high current and maybe if we ran parallel wiring(4GA) in WITH them, would solve this problem on our Intrigues.

Any comments on this theory would be appreciated.

I believe there are three of those "thick" wires in the bay...and it would be sweet to examine a 2002 Intrigue that was built after the VIN breakpoint...I'm sure we could find the specific solution.