Cooling System Trouble

[wolfox]

Well, things just get more and more fun. The "recording" of sounds was interrupted by a sudden, glorious deluge of coolant on the pavement when sitting idle at a stop light. Rather than chase cooling system problems piecemeal, I figure the truck's up there in age to get it all wrapped up. It appears that the plastic side tank split away from the aluminum core on the passenger side. No hoses or cooling lines seem to be amiss, but the entire passenger side was drenched with fluid, as was the splash guard acting like a.... well splash guard, keeping coolant drooling out from both sides over the sway bar bushings.

I am going to be picking up over the course of the next few days:

1) New radiator
2) Complete set of hoses - both upper, lower and spring for lower.
3) New water pump (Gaskets are in the box)
4) New thermostat (195 Degrees F.)
5) New Thermostat gasket
6) Tube of Permatex sealant (RTV)
7) Any job is an excuse for more tools - so a flare nut wrench kit will be scooped up to deal with cooling lines along with a new adjustable wrench. My old one's quite crappy and tends to chew what it turns.
The radiator cap is not even three weeks old, as the last time I had coolant trouble, it was replaced. (Leaking heater core hoses and blown lower intake seals - again, new and fresh) I will be picking up 50/50 premixed coolant, a few gallons of distilled water and a flushing kit to blow the crap out of the block before I swap in the new parts and refill. Is there anything else I should be chasing down or I am forgetting? Is there any real benefit to obtaining the same tube of "Stop leak" GM techs toss into the radiator when the truck's serviced at normal intervals? Or may I skip that entirely? Input, please...

Thanks guys!

[drdd]

yeah man ... fun times ... go for it!!

you haven't forgotten your lower intake manifold gasket have you ??? might be worth changing while you're diggin' into it ...

also ... replace those !@##$%& GM-tension-hose-clamps with normal "screw-driver" hose-clamp fittings while you're at it !!!

... flare-nut-wrench-kit ... ? why not? kick ass!! go for it! .. use it to change your fuel-filter next time !!

I'd probably test the 'stat and inspect the hoses before replacing ... I'd also inspect that waterpump before replacing.

check that rad-cap - to - overflow "puke tank" tube for clogging ! Might also be a good time to actually pull the reservoire and clean the hell out of it.

enjoy any involuntary, warm, dexcool-baths that you may encounter !!

Originally Posted by wolfox

Well, things just get more and more fun. The "recording" of sounds was interrupted by a sudden, glorious deluge of coolant on the pavement when sitting idle at a stop light. Rather than chase cooling system problems piecemeal, I figure the truck's up there in age to get it all wrapped up. It appears that the plastic side tank split away from the aluminum core on the passenger side. No hoses or cooling lines seem to be amiss, but the entire passenger side was drenched with fluid, as was the splash guard acting like a.... well splash guard, keeping coolant drooling out from both sides over the sway bar bushings.

I am going to be picking up over the course of the next few days:

1) New radiator
2) Complete set of hoses - both upper, lower and spring for lower.
3) New water pump (Gaskets are in the box)
4) New thermostat (195 Degrees F.)
5) New Thermostat gasket
6) Tube of Permatex sealant (RTV)
7) Any job is an excuse for more tools - so a flare nut wrench kit will be scooped up to deal with cooling lines along with a new adjustable wrench. My old one's quite crappy and tends to chew what it turns.
The radiator cap is not even three weeks old, as the last time I had coolant trouble, it was replaced. (Leaking heater core hoses and blown lower intake seals - again, new and fresh) I will be picking up 50/50 premixed coolant, a few gallons of distilled water and a flushing kit to blow the crap out of the block before I swap in the new parts and refill. Is there anything else I should be chasing down or I am forgetting? Is there any real benefit to obtaining the same tube of "Stop leak" GM techs toss into the radiator when the truck's serviced at normal intervals? Or may I skip that entirely? Input, please...

Thanks guys!

[BlazerLT]

Just replace the rad, why fix what is not broken and save money for future repairs.

[s10blazerman4x4]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

Just replace the rad, why fix what is not broken and save money for future repairs.

Exactly because in my experience whatever breaks now and when i fix stuff to get ahead of the game something bigger and better breaks

[wolfox]

Okay, so no vote for GM's magic sawdust so far. DRDD's a little misguided - the lower intake seals are brand spanking new, they are only as old as the new radiator cap. The intake seals are what blew up the last time, just shy of three weeks ago. A part of me really sides with BLT's logic here, the next "big repair" is always lurking around the bend. Survey says CPI and nut kit. (Bets, anyone?) Or at the very least, a possible O2 sensor on the horizon too. However, I do not want to deal with the hassle of having to tear stuff down and possibly loose coolant again when the waterpump/hoses decide to quit. When compared to the radiator, the "extras" are cheap insurance IMO. I found the original t-stat today! It was rattling around inside the splash guard most likely from the last mechanic that replaced it and fumbled, dropping it in there. I wonder if that is what possibly added insult to injury in beating the bottom and side of the radiator up on the passenger side. *Shrug* But she's a royal mess, the hoses I pulled off were dry and cracked along the bottoms where one could not see. So at the very least, hose clamps, hoses and a radiator. The Autozone rebuilt "Duralast" water pump's just shy of $30 and the t-stat a negligable $5 when compared to the $200.99 Transcool aftermarket radiator core. (Bastards, there is no core offered on ANY of the parts) I'm already in this for $250 or so after taxes, what's an extra $40 at this point? *I* would sleep a little easier at night so the thought is not without some small merrit, IMO. Any other thoughts guys? Before I go get dirty on this tomorrow? *YAWN* Ugh, time for bed...dog tired.

[blazee]

For that much extra, I agree with the idea of just fixing everything and being done with it. When ever I do a job, I always get as much done as a can while I've got it torn apart. It would be cheaper to do it now than have to buy new anti-freeze every time something breaks. After ten years of service, the components can't be expected to last long enough to make procrastinating worth it.

As for the stop leak...GM mentions it in a TSB:

Originally Posted by GM

Sealing Tablets

Originally Posted by GM

Sealing tablets are not used at the assembly plant for most models. Sealing tablets are generally not necessary and should not be used as a regular maintenance item after servicing an engine cooling system. The use of sealing tablets can, in some cases, produce contamination of the cooling system and/or severe discoloration of coolant.

I also suggest that you fill it with plain water for a day or two, so that you don't waste your coolant if you have to do anymore repairs.

[wolfox]

Mmmm, yes, I like the idea of running water in the system for a leak test over the next two days. In fact, a series of changes of water with Prestone Cooling System Cleaner added at one point should get her flushed out good. (I live at an apartment, no ready access to a hose...and sinking this much dough into it is going to leave prety thin finances for another month or so. But a follow-up visit to my usual mechanic for a full system flush and refill should cover my bases here in another 3 weeks) Going to have to avoid the highways and bumper-2-bumper traffic too I bet. Straight water, though it cools better, will not have the overboil protection, let alone the anti-wear, rust and electrolosis protection - but the two day test should not hurt it. I might just go ahead and see if I can buy my own, rather than rent the pressure tester. I can use it on more than just my truck in the future, but an overnight leak-down check after pumpig it up to cap pressure should suffice. I thank all of you thus far for your input, and helping me decide on other smaller background items. You are all a credit to the forum and ourselves!

EDIT: Wow, no surprise here....filled up the radiator to take a little trip to the parts store (leaving the cap off so it at least will not blow out coolant under pressure) and the water pump's just leaking like all get out from the weep hole. Man, it's all shot to hell in here. Oh, well, now you know where I am going to be for the next day and a half...turning wrenches in between my usual work duties. Maybe I can get a little time off earlier in the afternoon to fix this 100% *today*.

[blazee]

Most of your overboil protection comes from the pressure on the system (3-4 degree increase for every 1 pound of pressure.) The antifreeze only adds about 15 degrees

[drdd]

If your trucks anything like mine, I betcha spend more time and back-ache on that lower radiator hoseclamp than waterpump and Tstat combined !! Haha! Good Luck!

Originally Posted by wolfox

Mmmm, yes, I like the idea of running water in the system for a leak test over the next two days. In fact, a series of changes of water with Prestone Cooling System Cleaner added at one point should get her flushed out good. (I live at an apartment, no ready access to a hose...and sinking this much dough into it is going to leave prety thin finances for another month or so. But a follow-up visit to my usual mechanic for a full system flush and refill should cover my bases here in another 3 weeks) Going to have to avoid the highways and bumper-2-bumper traffic too I bet. Straight water, though it cools better, will not have the overboil protection, let alone the anti-wear, rust and electrolosis protection - but the two day test should not hurt it. I might just go ahead and see if I can buy my own, rather than rent the pressure tester. I can use it on more than just my truck in the future, but an overnight leak-down check after pumpig it up to cap pressure should suffice. I thank all of you thus far for your input, and helping me decide on other smaller background items. You are all a credit to the forum and ourselves!

EDIT: Wow, no surprise here....filled up the radiator to take a little trip to the parts store (leaving the cap off so it at least will not blow out coolant under pressure) and the water pump's just leaking like all get out from the weep hole. Man, it's all shot to hell in here. Oh, well, now you know where I am going to be for the next day and a half...turning wrenches in between my usual work duties. Maybe I can get a little time off earlier in the afternoon to fix this 100% *today*.

[wolfox]

Gods, no, I hope not DRDD. I have a lousy back. That's why I am a technician by trade and hobby. I have gotten a good survey of it all though. May be best to roll the truck up on ramps and work on the "lower end" first, flat on my back. Can't complain all that much when you are laying down on the job. I'll get 'er done here in a bit I hope. I am pushing last minute software updates out to a bank of computers in the lab, and then I am off for the afternoon - with my boss' blessings. W00t!

[RedLT]

Originally Posted by wolfox

That's why I am a technician by trade and hobby.

Well, what kind of tech are you. If its any kind of networking then get me a job. I will start for no less than $55,000 a year.

[BlazerLT]

Guys, whoever is promoting water in the system for a day is not thinking.

Water boiling point is 100c which is the operating temperature of the engine.

Sure the cap pressure will help stop the boiling, but in the hot weather you will sure as hell have some steam created on contact in the block.

Add SOME coolant to it but don't run straight water or all you fix will be fine and something alse will blow.

[blazee]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

Guys, whoever is promoting water in the system for a day is not thinking.

Water boiling point is 100c which is the operating temperature of the engine.

Sure the cap pressure will help stop the boiling, but in the hot weather you will sure as hell have some steam created on contact in the block.

Add SOME coolant to it but don't run straight water or all you fix will be fine and something alse will blow.

I recommended running water.

As I already stated:
"Most of your overboil protection comes from the pressure on the system (3-4 degree increase for every 1 pound of pressure.) The antifreeze only adds about 15 degrees"

At sea level water boils at 212f. With a 16psi cap the boiling point is increased to about 260f. The operating temperature of the engine is 195f. There is no problem there. The only benefit of the antifreeze would be the anti-wear, rust and electrolysis protection that wolfox mentioned, but it won't hurt anything to run with out it a couple days.

[wolfox]

I am actually running one better, guys - relax. Valid points are brought up all around from everyone, and again, I am grateful - because it makes me *think*. BlazerLT and Blazee are BOTH right. I have combined the information a little bit earlier myself and I am going to be running a mix of top off water and a bottle of Prestone Cooling System *Cleaner*. Not the flush. Cleaner is made to work in pure water, contains the adds needed to lubricate and protect the system, and is designed to run for a few days in the radiator/cooling system with a water mix. In fact, it says to drive "normally" for several days, drain, and then refill with 50-70%/50% coolant/water mix. That should be more than long enough to bang the crud out of the block nice and gently and maintain cooling system performance and safety. Come Monday - I will drain and refill.

Status: Taking a break. Got the shrouds (upper and lower) out of the engine bay, fan/clutch and pulley removed. The old radiator is out and laying on the ground. I will knock the pump off the block here in a bit and then get things underway for clean-up and resealing the new pump on. I am taking it slow as I do not have a garage, and I am outside in triple digits with nary a breeze in sight. So I am relaxing, updating, and having a lot of Icewater. Oh, and DRDD, I should have bet you. The old compression style spring clamps on the bottom hose came off so easily by reaching around the bands with a pair of channel lock pliers. The hose came off without a hitch and I saved the spring to put back into the new lower hose. Everything will be going back into place with screw type stainless bands. (2.25"-2.75" diameter) The poor girl's bleeding on the pavement, I just do not have enough catch buckets to go around...but the majority of the mess is done. Rolling the truck up onto roll-up stands is making the job easier, everything is elevated, and I just hang my arms down in over the top of the grille while standing up to hit everything. So far, so good! My back's holding up fine.

[wolfox]

Originally Posted by RedLT

Well, what kind of tech are you. If its any kind of networking then get me a job. I will start for no less than $55,000 a year.

Pffft, right. I am a tech at a local college and they pay me worse than a teacher's salary - and I am in a management position no less. $55K+/year is more than they pay their own post doctorate gruaduates that come back to work for the school. Not to worry though - I wrap up a few more work honed skills and a few mroe years under my belt and I can work anywhere I want by pointing at the job. Face it, working for a school is murder and totally thankless - but at least I *enjoy* the work. That's the best benefit of all, IMO. Anyway - enough shade-tree philosophy from me...I am going to get back to work outside.