Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Chevrolet > Blazer > How-to | Technical Info
How-to | Technical Info A wealth of information at your disposal.
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2005, 12:55 PM   #31
wolfox
AF Enthusiast
 
wolfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Posts: 945
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to wolfox
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Blazee is dead on. A properly balanced and maintained Dexcool based system using the Havoline "Dexcool" product will not experience much trouble. The key is VIGILANCE. There are abrasive, suspended components in the "Green" anti-freeze mix that will wear on parts much, much faster than a maintained Dexcool system. When I got my truck's Radiator, pump, hoses and other miscellany taken care of (including a leaking lower intake seal) I had completely dumped, flushed, and re-flushed the green stuff out and put Dexcool back in. She's happier than ever with a Stant cap topping off the radiator neck.
wolfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 12:58 PM   #32
BlazerLT
AF -Advisor
Thread starter
 
BlazerLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 13,565
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfox
Blazee is dead on. A properly balanced and maintained Dexcool based system using the Havoline "Dexcool" product will not experience much trouble. The key is VIGILANCE. There are abrasive, suspended components in the "Green" anti-freeze mix that will wear on parts much, much faster than a maintained Dexcool system. When I got my truck's Radiator, pump, hoses and other miscellany taken care of (including a leaking lower intake seal) I had completely dumped, flushed, and re-flushed the green stuff out and put Dexcool back in. She's happier than ever with a Stant cap topping off the radiator neck.
What about using the Prestone Dexcool?
__________________
1995 Factory Blazer Service Manual for sale, PM if interested.
BlazerLT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 01:06 PM   #33
blazee
Problem?
 
blazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,247
Thanks: 63
Thanked 113 Times in 93 Posts
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

The Prestone Dexcool is very similar to the Chevron/Texaco/Havoline. They have different corrsion inhibitors, but I haven't seen any research showing one to be better than the other.
blazee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 01:10 PM   #34
BlazerLT
AF -Advisor
Thread starter
 
BlazerLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 13,565
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

God mercy jesus I hope not. I just completely redid my cooling system with it, a new thread is in the works talking about it.
__________________
1995 Factory Blazer Service Manual for sale, PM if interested.
BlazerLT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 01:29 PM   #35
blazee
Problem?
 
blazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,247
Thanks: 63
Thanked 113 Times in 93 Posts
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

I found some discussion about the different corrosion inhibitors at bitog, it seems that most of those guys agree that it shouldn't make a difference in performance, and that the difference was probably to get around Texaco's patents:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...161;p=1#000010
blazee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 02:07 PM   #36
wolfox
AF Enthusiast
 
wolfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Posts: 945
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to wolfox
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Texaco/Havoline are the folks that made the original factory fill fluid for "Dextron" when the trucks rolled off the lot. With the additive chemistries havin been changed and made a litle more tollerant in recent years, I doubt that Mixing Prestone's "Dexcool" compatible fluids with Havoline/Texaco's going to make one bit of difference. If you're that paranoid about it (like I am) drain the stuff out to be recylced in two, three year intervals and refill with fresh pre-mix or distalled water/straight Dexcool in your usual 50-50 mix ratios.
wolfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 09:11 PM   #37
BlazerLT
AF -Advisor
Thread starter
 
BlazerLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 13,565
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

I am currently using a slightly higher concentration seeing it gets to -40f here in the winter.
__________________
1995 Factory Blazer Service Manual for sale, PM if interested.
BlazerLT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 09:29 PM   #38
wolfox
AF Enthusiast
 
wolfox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Posts: 945
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to wolfox
Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazerLT
I am currently using a slightly higher concentration seeing it gets to -40f here in the winter.
Yeah, a 50-50 mix of Dexcool protects down to about -36 degrees according to the charts I looked for on the web just a minute ago. It can go as low as -80 degrees or so at 60-40 ratios, but I would not go that "deep" with it. I do not know if Dexcool is the same as the old green glycol based stuff - but concentrations over a certain percentage in green is actually flammable!
wolfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 09:39 PM   #39
BlazerLT
AF -Advisor
Thread starter
 
BlazerLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 13,565
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Yea, better to go at a higher concentration than take a risk.
__________________
1995 Factory Blazer Service Manual for sale, PM if interested.
BlazerLT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2005, 10:00 PM   #40
dmbrisket 51
AF Fanatic
 
dmbrisket 51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 2,835
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dmbrisket 51
Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazerLT
God mercy jesus I hope not. I just completely redid my cooling system with it, a new thread is in the works talking about it.
your perfectly fine, shop im at, we only use the prestone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjcamaro89
If the green stuff has all of these abrasives in them, then why dont cars that take the green stuff have the problems that you are talking about in the dexcool cars. This is what Im saying, in the cars that take the green stuff, the coolant is in contact with the same type of rubber and plastic conponents as the dexcool cars, now maybe not in the same location, but somewhere in the coolant system both types of cars coolant parts are exposed to the coolant one way or the other, so if I use the green in my dexcool car wont i run the risk of the problems everyone else faces with the green coolant cars? You get what im saying? Just to me in my mind all cars coolant systems are basically the same and your going to have the same problems with the green stuff in either type of car. i think thats what im trying to say.
ahhh young grass hopper, take a 96 3800 (3.8l v 6)apart, and take a 94 3.8l apart... whats the difference?? the plastic and rubber im talking about, the old style (3.8) lower intake has a graphite gasket... the 3800 (new 3.8l) has a plastic and rubber intake gasket that doesnt get along with the green stuff... that is your difference...
dmbrisket 51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 12:58 PM   #41
rksnc
AF Regular
 
rksnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wilmington, North Carolina
Posts: 252
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to rksnc Send a message via Yahoo to rksnc
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

I am amazed. Lets see, DEXCOOL has a problem with oxygen? Then waht is water? Don't we need water for the right mix here? What is water? 1 atom and 2 atoms of hydrogen. If this be the case how do you stop DEX COOL from mixing with oxygen? And heat,isn't that what we are dealing with here? And it makes no difference what the heat is set on. Unless you have a heater control valve in the system the water flows thru heater core at the time. When you have heater control valve it closess only during AC request. Your heat blend air door isn't doing anything to the flow of water. A proper maintain coolant system always work the best. Water that we put into car has other elements in it such as iron. Keeping systems service every year will save you lots of problems.
rksnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 04:27 PM   #42
blazee
Problem?
 
blazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,247
Thanks: 63
Thanked 113 Times in 93 Posts
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Dexcool doesn't have a problem with oxygen directly, the problems lies within the way that the system acts when oxygen is introduced. The standard green antifreeze is affected by air getting in the system as well, the difference being that it doesn't have the sludging problem.

All antifreezes must be an alkaline mixture to protect the system from electrolysis, the additives are what makes the coolant alkaline. The coolant is much more alkaline than what is needed to protect the system, this is because as the corrosion inhibitors neutralize acids formed anytime that something "attacks" the cooling system, the alkalinity of the coolant is reduced. The extra alkalinity, there to expand the useful life of the coolant, is called reserve alkalinity.

When air is introduced in to a cooling system, the air and water mix with metal, and causes corrosion in the form of rust.

Wikipedia defintion of rust:
"Rust is the substance formed when iron compounds corrode in the presence of water and oxygen. It is a mixture of iron oxides and hydroxides. Rusting is a common term for corrosion, and usually corrosion of steel.

Iron is found naturally in the ore hematite as iron oxide, and metallic iron tends to return to a similar state when exposed to air, (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, etc) and water. This corrosion is due to the oxidation reaction when iron metal returns to an energetically favourable state. Energy is given off when rust forms. The process of rusting can be summarized as three basic stages: The formation of iron(II) ions from the metal; the formation of hydroxide ions; and their reaction together, with the addition of oxygen, to create rust.

Iron is the main component of steel and the corrosion of steel is observed more frequently, since iron is rarely used without alloying in the present day.

When steel contacts water, an electrochemical process starts. On the surface of the metal, iron is oxidised to iron(II):

Fe → Fe2+ + 2e-

The electrons released travel to the edges of the water droplet, where there is plenty of dissolved oxygen. They reduce the oxygen and water to hydroxide ions:

4e- + O2 + 2H2O → 4OH-

The hydroxide ions react with the iron(II) ions and more dissolved oxygen to form iron oxide. The hydration is variable, however in its most general form:

Fe2+ + 2OH- → Fe(OH)2
4Fe(OH)2 + O2 → 2(Fe2O3.xH2O) + 2H2O

Hence, rust is hydrated iron(III) oxide. Corrosion tends to progress faster in seawater than fresh water due to higher concentration of sodium chloride ions, making the solution more conductive. Rusting is also accelerated in the presence of acids, but inhibited by alkalis. Rust can often be removed through electrolysis, however the base metal object can not be restored through this method."


In a cooling system this rust is neutralized by the corrosion inhibitors, reducing the system's reserve alkalinity, which in turn shortens it's life. (This is why in real world applications, Dexcool doesn't last 150,000 miles) The degradation of coolant in constantly being accelerated as new things are introduced into the system. The suspended rust particles, increase the conductivity of the coolant, accelerating electrolysis. Not only does electrolysis remove particles from the aluminum componets of the system, but it also removes some of the rust from the componets containing iron. The suspended particles have an additionial negative effect in dexcool systems due to the OAT attacking, and clinging to the suspended particles, causing a thick, rust colored sludge. As the OAT is drawn to the sludgy masses, it offers less protection to the system componets, allowing more rust to form, further accelerating the process. All this is why it is crucial to maintain your system and keep the coolant fresh.
blazee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 04:28 PM   #43
BlazerLT
AF -Advisor
Thread starter
 
BlazerLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 13,565
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

also I find city driving shortens the life as well.
__________________
1995 Factory Blazer Service Manual for sale, PM if interested.
BlazerLT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 04:52 PM   #44
ChrisGood
AF Regular
 
ChrisGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 287
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

I think what blazee is saying is, dont try to be smart not here, you wont win.

Go Blazee, I couldnt have said it better myself, thankfully theres wikipedia
__________________
I can fix anything, if you just tell me how.
White 2006 Chrysler Town & Country
Zurich Pearl White 1993 3000GT VR4
1993 3000GT VR4


ChrisGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2005, 05:07 PM   #45
dmbrisket 51
AF Fanatic
 
dmbrisket 51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 2,835
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dmbrisket 51
Re: Re: Got air in your heater core? Need help getting rid of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rksnc
I am amazed. Lets see, DEXCOOL has a problem with oxygen? Then waht is water? Don't we need water for the right mix here? What is water? 1 atom and 2 atoms of hydrogen. If this be the case how do you stop DEX COOL from mixing with oxygen? And heat,isn't that what we are dealing with here? And it makes no difference what the heat is set on. Unless you have a heater control valve in the system the water flows thru heater core at the time. When you have heater control valve it closess only during AC request. Your heat blend air door isn't doing anything to the flow of water. A proper maintain coolant system always work the best. Water that we put into car has other elements in it such as iron. Keeping systems service every year will save you lots of problems.
think about exactly what your argument is... what is water? you are correct, 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, if i toss a match into the water (or hold it just above the surface, because its the fumes of the liquids that are flammible not the liquids themselfes) thers no raging infurno of hell, even though oxygen supports fire, and hydrogen makes one hell of a boom if contained, thats because when you have an element, the proporties change from the original chemicals
dmbrisket 51 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD

Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Chevrolet > Blazer > How-to | Technical Info

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46 AM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts