It's Official. *Read the disclaimer at the start of the thread!*

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by Solomon219

To you Americans reading this post:

Do you think I can count on your vote when I run for President?

or

Just wondering. Thanks. - S

You got my vote! It would be nice to have a normal human being who hasn't been in politics since they were 3 in office.

[Solomon219]

In response your message, ILike2DriveCars, extremism is what I'm GOING for! We've got to get the attention of the rest of the world, and I'm sorry, but with my typical American superiority complex, we've literally got to show them whose boss. Not by being the "big American bully" but by taking away the BONUSES that they find it so easy to ignore in light of the "bad" things we Americans do. I personally think that the good FAR outway the bad.

As far as not being able to trade for goods, I believe that any foreign country would be more than HAPPY to trade with us, at REDUCED rates, in fact. America is a consumer country. If we withdraw all our aid AND funding, these countries are going to need every dollar they can get from us to fund their military (whose fighting crime) and to feed the starving (who were relying on our American taxpayer dollars to feed their mouths and cursing us with those same mouths)!

It's all going back to my original argument that we must isolate ourselves from them so that they may see exactly how much we DO do for them.

I invite anyone who has a say to join in this discussion.

Also, I'd like to thank you, TexasF355F1, for supporting me in that portion of my argument.

EDIT- Thanks for your vote, as well. I saw that after I'd posted this.
- S

[HogieGT-R]

for some reason this is starting to sound more and more like it's supposed to be in the political section of AF

[Xv7vX]

I have to say i was very happy with that disclaimer. I know i would probably gotten mad at whatever is in here, so i just moved on. Thanks.

Unless its some sort of trick, which would be funny.

Either way

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by Solomon219

In response your message, ILike2DriveCars, extremism is what I'm GOING for! We've got to get the attention of the rest of the world, and I'm sorry, but with my typical American superiority complex, we've literally got to show them whose boss. Not by being the "big American bully" but by taking away the BONUSES that they find it so easy to ignore in light of the "bad" things we Americans do. I personally think that the good FAR outway the bad.

- S

Please, call me Jon. I see where you are coming from, however, I think that should that actually happen it would be bad for the United States, as I believe I already said.

[Solomon219]

Jon,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were sounding a little bit miffed in that last comment. I didn't mean to offend anyone in any way, whatsoever. I was just stating my opinion. If you disagree with me that's GREAT! That's one of the things that DOES make America a great place to live. Freedom of expression and freedom of thought are two tangible ideas that a lot of countries do NOT enjoy! Thanks for your reply! - S

[RyanGiorgio]

Originally Posted by freakray

RG, I don't believe you're as young as you claim, you have far too a sensible head on those shoulders for somebody your age.

I am slightly offended by that post. Why is it so hard to believe that I am 16 years old? I like to write, and I like to express my feelings in words. I don't think I'm smart, I just think I am decent at writing. Maybe I could take it as a compliment instead?

And TexasF355F1, nudity is not that important to me. My point is that we are sheltered, and that is why we make such a huge deal about sex and drugs.

[Oz]

: Heep, a brilliantly authored, concise and insightful post about the true nature of world powers and politics at play. I concur with absolutely everything mentioned.

The US, as a country and a people are -
Ignorant. Knowing so little about the rest of the world has led to a dangerous cycle of the blind acceptance of society wide views on foreign countries/policy and general knowlegdge. The excuse that you have so much information/history to learn about your own country is NOT valid. It does not compare to the same categories in England and other countries. I was told by an American, to his certain knowledge, that Sydney was on the West coast of Australia. And wouldn't beleive me that it was in fact on the East coast and I might know because I live there. This is just a continuing evidence of a wider spectrum of insulation that a majority of US citizens live in.

Arrogant As ably demonstrated by the major contributors to this thread already, Americans are arrogant about their important to the rest of the world. 95% of the world that you are currently 'assisting' didn't ASK for your help or WANT your help. Those that HAVE asked for help typically do so because of a situation INSTIGATED BY THE US (war, trade sanctions etc). I personally wish they would fuck off and stop interfering in things that are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

This combination of Ignorance (not stupidity) and Arrogance makes a very dangerous combination when combined with undeserved power that the US lords over the rest of the world on a daily basis.

All of that said, I have friends both on AF and elsewhere that are Americans and I do not begrudge them any of this. As has also been mentioned, they did not ask to be born there. I simply ask US citizens to be more active in seeking knowledge about the TRUE state of the world than simply absorbing what the mass marketed media TELLS them these things.

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by Oz

All of that said, I have friends both on AF and elsewhere that are Americans and I do not begrudge them any of this. As has also been mentioned, they did not ask to be born there. I simply ask US citizens to be more active in seeking knowledge about the TRUE state of the world than simply absorbing what the mass marketed media TELLS them these things.

That's probably the biggest plus I've had from joing AF, learning to accept and understand others opinions. I've visited London and absolutely loved it. I also plan to visit other countries in the future. Those being Germany and Italy and hopefully others.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by RyanGiorgio

I am slightly offended by that post. Why is it so hard to believe that I am 16 years old? I like to write, and I like to express my feelings in words. I don't think I'm smart, I just think I am decent at writing. Maybe I could take it as a compliment instead?

And TexasF355F1, nudity is not that important to me. My point is that we are sheltered, and that is why we make such a huge deal about sex and drugs.

And here is my permit and school id, just to prove my age. Check the birthdate.

Ryan, why are you offended at being told you're very mature for your age?
What I meant by telling you your post was insightful was that you're an intelligent young man, something too few and far between these days.

I only meant to pay you a compliment, not to offend you, I am sorry.

[2strokebloke]

Well on the plus side, we do have some of the cheapest gas prices in the world. Anyway you've probably already read my opinions on America minding it's own business. The world doesn't need a daycare provider, I'm sure they can fend for themselves.

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by Solomon219

Jon,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were sounding a little bit miffed in that last comment. I didn't mean to offend anyone in any way, whatsoever. I was just stating my opinion. If you disagree with me that's GREAT! That's one of the things that DOES make America a great place to live. Freedom of expression and freedom of thought are two tangible ideas that a lot of countries do NOT enjoy! Thanks for your reply! - S

I wasnt offended in the least, I apologize if I gave you that impression.

[RyanGiorgio]

Originally Posted by freakray

Ryan, why are you offended at being told you're very mature for your age?
What I meant by telling you your post was insightful was that you're an intelligent young man, something too few and far between these days.

I only meant to pay you a compliment, not to offend you, I am sorry.

Hmm, apology greatly accepted. Thank you. I guess I interpreted your response a bit wrong. You came off like you were giving me a sort of attitude and saying that I lied about my age. But thanks again for the compliment, Ray.

[Heep]

Wow, thanks for all the opinions, both positive and negative, people...they are what help us learn. I also want to thank everyone for keeping cool...I was sure I was gonna come home from work and see 18 flames and a closed thread

Anyways,

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

The only thing I question though, is if so many countries seem to hate us, then why is it when they're in need of some sort of economic help they come knocking on our door?

Excellent point, however, it's my opinion that the US brought that situation upon themselves. Canada has rarely requested US assistance, and the US has rarely ever interfered with our issues. We're used to dealing with our own problems and don't like to burden the US with them. The countries that do come scrambling to the US for help, though, are usually the countries that have had the US involved in major events in their past. Countries experience help (or interference, depending on your viewpoint) from the US and get a taste for it, then when something goes wrong, the US is their natural choice of countries to ask for help.

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

We wouldn't have if Saddam wasn't such an a-hole dictator. He's not a leader, he's a man in search of power and gets his jolly's off by torturing and killing people who dont do what he expects. He practically brainwashed a large sum of the people by his use of force. No one deserves to be tortured and or killed for something as unjust as not supporting the government.

I agree with you fully on Saddam, but just because someone is a horrible leader doesn't give another country the right to step in. Did the people of Iraq make an official plea for help to the US (I honestly don't know)? If so, then I can see justification in the war, however, if they didn't, then to me it just seems like America stepping in to convert Iraq to the US way of doing things. While that may or may not be better in the long run, it can have serious impacts on the Iraqi society. Saddam and his regime are all many of the citizens know; therefore it can only be assumed that they will struggle with any other form of rule. It's like being acclimatized to prison...when someone is free, there is initial celebration, but soon they find out that they don't know how to live any other way.

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

The vast majority of U.S. citizens aren't racists, it just seems that way b/c of the stupid ass media.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Of course there will always be people that have their own opinions on races but very few act on it now; that much is true. However, the US has gotten used to not being racist towards Blacks or Asians or Indians, but let me tell you racism is very much alive in the form of nationalityism (I love making words ). I've actually had people refuse my business because I'm Canadian which seemingly automatically means I don't support their war efforts. Well no, I don't, but I can't be held responsible for decisions made my my Prime Minister, just as Americans refuse to be accountable for Presidential decisions. I visit your country, I change my money to yours at a loss, I spend and your businesses and feed your workers, and some of your citizens have the gall to insult me based on my nationality!?!? Believe me, racism is stronger now than it ever has been.

Originally Posted by raysoh8

you can always tell if a white faced guy is american in singapore, just look at them, britons, autsralians dont act like them

It's actually very unfortunate that those mannerisms are basically all white non-Americans have in their favour. Brits and Aussies and others at least have a distinctly non-US accent, however we Canadians often can only act polite and wear a Canadian flag in order to avoid prejudice from people who have a bad taste of Americans.

Originally Posted by Solomon219

First, I believe that America should adopt an isolationist policy towards the rest of the world. Let's withdraw our troops and withdraw our aid, and then we'll let the rest of the world SEE how much we really mean to them. I think they'll have so much crime, terrorism and poverty that they'll be begging to intervene again. And then I would have them all sign treaties giving us sovereignty over all those who come crawling back. That's my policy on the rest of the world.

That's a very interesting and valid point, but as I mentioned in regard to Texas's comments, people are only scrambling to the US because they've become acclimatized to your "help."

Originally Posted by Solomon219

I love the way America USED to be, how it was envisioned by our founding fathers. Now all the gov't is trying to do is TAKE AWAY every single right that was given to us in the Constitution.

I agreed wholeheartedly. I love the old America as well. While not as extreme as in many parts of the US, Canada is being influenced by this new United States and is adopting some crazy policies as well. It won't be long before I get completely fed up with Canada as well...I've got nowhere to hide!

Originally Posted by Oz

Ignorant. Knowing so little about the rest of the world has led to a dangerous cycle of the blind acceptance of society wide views on foreign countries/policy and general knowlegdge.

Excellent point. I've always been annoyed by how little the majority of Americans know about other places, even us, their own neighbours! It's amazing how many people in the US have seriously asked me things like "How do you keep warm in igloos?" and "Do you drive on the left side of the road?" or even "Do you even have roads?" I would be willing to forgive them if only they didn't demand I know everything about the US such as what the capital of Oregon is (no clue!). You struck a new chord in my brain though, as I just realized how negative an effect this ignorance can have in light of US foreign "interference." We've got the US telling the world how to run their country when they know nothing about said countries or what it's like to actually live in them!

Originally Posted by Oz

what the mass marketed media TELLS them these things.

I fear that is one of the top causes of the state the US is currently in. Canada, while media-flooded as compared to most of the world, is nowhere near as bombarded as the US. At least Canadian media tends to be far less biased and is more objective, just giving facts and allowing citizens to formulate their own opinions. The US media is very smart and very crafty...they know how to manipulate through even the smallest things. For example, I was in Florida during that "Great Power Blackout" a few months back. Not even a couple of hours after it occured, the US media was already blaming Canadian power stations, and everybody's opinion of Canada just dropped 5 points right then and there. I even had some people blame me personally for it because of my nationality! Turned out to be a US power station and not at all related to our stations, but the damage had been done and people's opinions never went back up. It's a shame that the media controls so many lives.


Whew! I'm talking up a storm. Glad to be gaining insight here, lets keep up the rational debate

[Solomon219]

First things first, RyanGiorgio, NEVER ever ever ever put your pic on the 'net WITH your address, ESPECIALLY not a valid license, even if it is only a permit. There are a lot of "bad people" out there just waiting to create innocents like you a credit history, FREE OF CHARGE (for them at least...)! Just lucky your SS wasn't on there anywhere.

Second, thanks for getting back to me Jon! I just wanted to make sure we were good!

Oz, I agree with you that Americans are both ignorant and arrogant. I saw test results recently from a WORLDWIDE survey on world geography, and the US, if not the last, was right next to it. The countries who scored the highest were predominantly European (sorry, I don't remember how Canada placed). I DON'T agree with you that because people rely on us is because we CAUSE them to rely on us. I'm gonna take this back in history a little bit (and yes, feed you some more of my American superiority drivel) but remember WWI, remember WWII. Both of those wars we were RELUCTANT to enter, yet when we saw our fellow men being beaten down, being trampled by the likes of oppression, we COULDN'T stand idly by. (Paraphrased: We saved your asses.)

Now here's the clincher: NO WAR WAS EVER FOUGHT ON OUR SOIL! The closest it came was Pearl Harbor, and that's not even mainland. So our economy wasn't affected. It actually boomed. But the Europeans were decimated. They NEVER would have been able to rebuild (it still took years) if it hadn't been for the United State's financial backing. THAT, I believe, is where the root of loans and aid between foreign countries and the US came from.

You also mention that the US lords it's "undeserved power" over everyone else. I think that power is rightfully DESERVED! We really have done some great and wonderful things. The problem, I believe, is that this deserved power is wielded by UNdeserving individuals. What do you think of that? America as a whole has earned it's power (it's never been stolen it, has it?) but the leadership today are fairly incompetent.

Tex said earlier that he'd "vote" for me, because he'd like to see a human being in office who HADN'T been in politics since he was three. I think that's the way the majority of Americans feel. These politicians create "dynasties" (e.g. Kennedy's, Bush's, even the Reagan's) and they are so powerful and the financial stakes are so high that the regular person, whose ideas may set us on the right course or who may have an even clearer view of things, is kept from reaching even mediocre heights. This is sad. The majority of THEM are the one's who are arrogant and ignorant. They say the common man cannot consider such complex edifices as gov't. They say we should sit back and let them take care of it, and not to pay any attention. It's a good thing we still do.

But how long is this kind of thing going to last. I mentioned earlier that Americans should enlist in their local militias, and if you don't have one, start one. This is because I smell a revolution in the not-so-distant future. The American populace is NOT happy with the way the Constitution has been bastardized.

Heep, this is one helluva thread you've started. Gimme more, bizzitch!

Now let me disagree with you. Let's scroll down to where you begin talking about Saddam (we're in you're latest post). I can see your argument, why mess with a country's way of life, to give them something just as bad, worse, or worst of all, UNCERTAIN. (Right?) We've had ACCURATE info on Saddam's "crimes against humanity" for a while, now. We're continuously finding new evidence and mass graves. My question to you is this: how can you, as a modern civilized (American sp., of course) person, sit back and not do anything to help?!

This is amazing to me. These are real men, women, and CHILDREN! Let me drive it closer to home. Say your neighbor is next door, and say he has some children. If you knew he was sexually abusing his children, PHYSICALLY abusing them, to the point of cutting off fingers or limbs, or just plain killing them, are you saying you'd watch with an impassive countenance? Personally, I'd kill the fucker myself! That scum does not deserve to live! Fuck the trial, because if you know for a FACT that he has done this (not your "reasoning" but personal eye-witness accounts, and HUMAN remains in the backyard) you are doing society-at-large, and subsequent generations, a favor.

Now I'll disagree with both you AND Tex (God forbid) but Tex says racism is not that prevalent any longer, and you replied that it wasn't that prevalent towards Asians, Indians, and African-Americans, but more in the form of "nationalityism" (I love using freshly made words!). I propose that racial tensions are STILL highstrung. Yes, we've got national pride, but who doesn't. Who won't say that there country is the best in the world, that there country is God's country (well, Cuba, maybe, but that's different). Anyways, I'm in the heartland, in the Bluegrass, (KENTUCKY, you morons ) and there is so much racism here it really isn't funny. It's not because of the "hick-syndrome" like you're probably thinking, but, having friends across the country, I put forth that if it is not as high as it was in the '70's, it's still up there.

You mention that Canada is changing in relation to the US's new laws, and that you will be leaving before long. I feel the same (in fact, I mentioned it in one of my last posts). If a national reform does NOT come around soon, to check the growing power of the US's political class, then the US WILL become the oppressive monster we all fear. Something must be done!

Finally, we come to the mass media. A Russian news correspondent came here recently and remarked to an American reporter that he was "amazed" at how free our media is, how it's allowed to criticize the gov't. He couldn't imagine this in his country where the media is state-run.

How wrong he was. THE UNITED STATES MEDIA IS STATE-RUN!!! Everything they say or do INFLUENCES your thoughts. They may go against it sometimes because there is some small rebellion going on regarding the "freedom of the press", but the majority of these "rebellions" are orchestrated by the gov't to give you some SEMBLANCE of receiving an IMPARTIAL judgment.

Think about that.

Now that you've thought about it, post back with your comments. What are YOUR ideas? Thanks. - S


Heep and I could write a book We could be the next Hannity & Colmes!