Lancia Lybra

[Volken]

I live in Europe, Yes it is my A6 V6 Quattro powered by Natural Gas
(CNG), and since it was optimized with Turbo and additionally chipped
it has almost no change in performance to road but a world performance
to environment.

[Stefanel1]

Europe is big Sweden ? Danemark ? Belgium ? I can't see the plates of your Audi well !

My father had a Sintra with GPL/LPG/CNG, but it was not as good as the diesel, so he has now an Evasion HDi (Synergie in the UK), not more expensive and easy to sell !

[crayzayjay]

Your experiences with LPG weren’t good? I heard good things about it
Please tell us more

[Stefanel1]

It was good, but it's not as practical as the diesel. Indeed, there are not a lot of LPG stations (except on the highways), you can only drive 300 or 400 km with a fill up (200 miles), you've not any more spare wheel (or you lose a part of your boot) and when you've to sell it, it's very difficult.
And compared with our current Evasion (Synergie in UK), which is a far better car than the Sintra, the performances are even better with the HDi, even if it's only 110hp (141 hp for the Sintra and about the same weight).

[Volken]

Some reality facts about CNG & LPG that Stefanel remarked much
to generally. First Stefanel mentioned: -it was not as good as the diesel-
First few exact facts reflecting this matter.

CNG compressed natural gas is 4 times more cheaper then petrol and 2 times from Diesel. LPG comes slightly higher with these figures but still double compared to petrol. Like Petrol and Diesel, LPG is completely depending on findings of Oil in general. No Oil no LPG! CNG on other hand is completely independent of Oil raw, it is a merely a byproduct of the process making it by all independent agencies viable source of energy for next 4 generation of people. Fact.

When Stefanel says practicality is not good, he simply address point of trip autonomy and therefore one side of the coin. Yes, LPG and CNG will have alone slightly less driving autonomy because unlike Petrol or Diesel they are not flammable in terms of heat energy and will even consume more then Petrol or Diesel but only compared to the distance!

When you realize ratio of affordability CNG and LPG compared to Petrol and Diesel,everything justifies cost and you save money even two months after installation. LPG saves you money by 35-40% of engine life and oil consumption, while professional CNG installation can go to more then 50%, Fact!

Most important note that most of people have no idea and when they do, they change completely (well, most do) their misconception about this matter. CNG offers less compared to LPG and specially Petrol and Diesel ( biggest lie in auto ) :

0% plumb/lead - 0% sulphur - 94% less of (CO) - 25-30% less (CO2) - 34% (Nox), - 45% hydrocarbon (CH) ... and I could go on...
Engine alone is much calmer and reliable because mixture is more soft on engine. Note on performance.

It makes a whole lot of difference for engines before year 2001., whether they are atmospheric or turbo powered when they had installation of either CNG or LPG. In Factory install optimization will in somecases even with such engines provide almost if not the exact performance compared to Petrol, because process of both mixture is bivalent and engine would never allowed for them to mix together.
Today staring with 2002 there is new (BRC Italian leader), Fly Sequent technology that allows only 2% less acceleration from 0-60mph/0-100kmh in worst cases regardless of engine with LPG.

CNG is almost the same and only requires most professional in factory of expert optimization and will have almost exact performance (3 days needed) Fly Sequent can even allow (!) LPG/CNG with Diesel (ecology must). Those older installs like Stefanel Sintra depend whether engine is atmo/turbo turbo will in most cases offer near or very slight loss in performance, atmospheric engines lose much more. Diesel in Europe is of political nature (Busses and all public conveyance) much like Milk and
meat industry are in US. That is why Diesel is cheaper in Europe to point of great demand. Facts. Yes,Diesel compared to Petrol engine has more torque power that is released in range where Benz is barely waking up (1500-3000) and therefore specially when combined with turbo, needs much less and offers great overtaking power with great autonomy because of Diesel cost. Facts. What Diesel is doing to environment is disaster! In short as possible. Diesel contains (PAH) small lethal particles that are enormously risky in crowded traffic.
These particles are much like particles of say for example
...asbestos...imagine a small invisible hooks. Imagine a hundreds or more of these hooks inhaled in your lungs, to many of them like asbestos or radiation dust - and time is only factor that would adios you out of this world. If your child,friend or yourself would stand in a garage while engine is running- you want that engine to be Benz! Never take to much time in Euro. Garage. In US Diesel is not needed because
of American Life ( who cares about Oil consumption ), and disastrous statistics shows that since 1989., not in one single year- there has been fall in more economical Oil consumption. V8,V10,...SUV all lead (partly) for what is needed now the most in US...Oil!
So SUV drivers, please register to Combat on your behalf.

Educate your selfish needs (we all have them), and please, use CNG earth friendly power. If you long for a hybrid,well...even the better!

Consuetudo legem facit.


PS: Stefanel who do you mean your Sintra with GPL/LPG/CNG??????
Both LPG&CNG in car of elderly install date...are you serious?
Where?

[Stefanel1]

I made a mistake : only LPG on the Sintra.
My father bought only two LPG in his life, a Citroën CX in 1986 and an Opel Sintra in 1998.
He was not terribely satisfacted, that's all, even if in another country he could have been more happy with LPG (more stations, better "re-sale" etc.).
I'm not sayig that LPG is not good of course
But the Evasion is far mmore better than the Opel, and not because of the LPG installation.

[crayzayjay]

So it was more due to the support for LPG than the performance that your dad didn’t like it?

[Stefanel1]

yes, indeed !
The performances was almost as good (or bad should I say !) than on the gas position. But for a 2.2 141hp, it was very slow !

[Volken]

One note I failed to address...

Fly Sequent technology on CNG/LPG has *adaptive engine mapping*
Unlike previous technologies of earlier date,after you finished
installation if you would change one single point to your engine
(chip tuning or any engine modification), you would immediately
create potentially dangerous situation for you engine and security
of installation.

I give radical plot, however,supporting electronics on older machines are quite problematic sometimes regardless of carmaker and when
gas is onboard it could get problematic for engine.

Fly Sequent updates electronic map each time you turn the key!
Whatever changes to your engine good or bad - he adapts to the current state.

If engine (unlikely), would be potentially driven in dangerous link
with gas, installation would automatically shut and switch to Petrol, leaving you to safely inspect problems and solutions in your service.

Another statistics from Europe learned from Gas installers, informed
me that it has been proven that car boot installation of gas improves
up to 35-40% back security in case of back chain crash because it really behaves as integral part of construction and know that it is
made from casting foundry steel.

Note on environment.
Almost 40% of lung cancer or lung pathology associated from air pollution combined from crowded traffic in dense cities will come
from Diesel (whether car or factory).

[Volken]

Stefanel,

I always forget to let you know that you have 2 great Lybra TV Commercials that Harrison Ford made for Lancia. Really stylish
and not too big.

Let me know what do you think of it.

http://www.harrisonford.de/multimedia/videos.htm

[Stefanel1]

Harrison "Ford" who makes an adv for "Lancia"... quite funny.

I remember this advertisement which was not too bad
Alas the commercial carrier of the Lybra is not excellent. But I think that with the big restylking of 2004, it'll be better (as for the Citroën C5 in the same situation even if they sell (how ?!!!) more than the Lybra).

[Volken]

Hey no lazy talk...
Go and download the movies :smoka:

One is with Japanese tree that gets alive from Lybra AC

Other one you havent seen 100%, it is a short action movie
with Lybra Wagon and prety young woman in chase and in secure
hands of Harrison behind the wheel

[Stefanel1]

I remember the second one now, with the woman...

[Volken]

Yesterday I have seen silver Lybra and witnessed a very
disappointing display.

Looking at left light it appeared that tolerance of connecting
parts is very slim for entire inside was filled with moisture.

Upon first touch it was way to flexible and even slightly moving
inside-outside. Yes, new generation of Alfas and Lybras is better
and moving slowly to German refinement, but still, good rood to
path that excellence.

Friend of mine who services Alfas told me about two same orders...
2 new 156 2.0jts,same dealer,same source...but first owner had no problem and apart from service Alfa runs smoothly.
Other owner, since day one...problems...Electronic shows problems
with oil,brakes,front seat is squeaking as if it had driving history of 3 years.

He sorted that,but again electronic plays games, when he is trying to prove that in service,nothing!

[Volken]

Stefanel,

Are you alive?
Or maybe...you are driving new 156