'95 Town slight blue smoke puff in the morning.

[olopezm]

Hello people my Town car has started to leave a puff of blue smoke everytime I start the car in the morning or after being parked for some hours and only happens after starting it, there will be no smoke when idling, revving up or going downhill. It also stalls or hesitates for a second only after a cold start in the morning. The car has ~185k miles.

I've been reading and found that the most common causes of blue smoke are worn out rings or worn out valve stem seals. Should the rings be the problem what should I expect from a compression test?. Is there a way to be sure of the seals being the problem?.

Since I saw it the first time I replaced the PCV valve, rubber grommet and the rubber pieces on the PCV hose, the old one had some oil in it and the hose had oil in it too, I though this would fix things but it didn't, every time I take the PCV hose off there is oil in it and some oil drips too from the nipple on the intake elbow, I'm thinking this must be the source of the blue smoke instead of the other things and I don't remember seeing any oil here when I cleaned the EGR channels. What can cause the oil being drawn into the PCV system?.

I have a vacuum leak at the vacuum distribution tee, but the store doesn't has it in stock and I have to wait until it arrives because mine is in a bad condition: can this cause the oil in the PCV problem?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

Oscar

[Blue)(Fusion]

The PCV system in any car picks up oil. That is why many people use an oil/water separator can in the PCV line between the valve and the plenum. This usually shouldn't cause enough oil consumption to cause blue smoke on start up or noticeable lower the oil in the sump. If you aren't having to add oil between oil changes, it is generally not a big deal if you leave it. I get the VERY occasional blue puff of smoke at start and burn 1/4 of a quart every 3,000 miles.

I'd suspect your valve stem seals. They are known to be prone to premature failure up to model year 1996 Town Cars.

Check out this information and how to regarding the valve stem seal replacement:
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/u...58#Post1150358

Before you jump in, if you want to give some cheap treatments a shot, I suggest Auto-Rx. Use their high mileage instructions which will require two bottles and take some time. It helps restore seals and is not a solvent. It really cleans up dirty engines and keeps them clean. I run it in my car and if you look at my pictures (see sig), when I swapped my cams, my engine was extremely clean compared to others with the same mileage and conditions.

[danielsatur]

The valve stem seals are worn out!
1) Block the EGR Port and go with an external PCV filter.

This car will run so much better, the MAF sensor and air filter wont get contaminated with oil.

[olopezm]

Thank you for your answers guys.

Originally Posted by Blue)(Fusion

The PCV system in any car picks up oil. That is why many people use an oil/water separator can in the PCV line between the valve and the plenum. This usually shouldn't cause enough oil consumption to cause blue smoke on start up or noticeable lower the oil in the sump. If you aren't having to add oil between oil changes, it is generally not a big deal if you leave it. I get the VERY occasional blue puff of smoke at start and burn 1/4 of a quart every 3,000 miles.

I'd suspect your valve stem seals. They are known to be prone to premature failure up to model year 1996 Town Cars.

Check out this information and how to regarding the valve stem seal replacement:
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/u...58#Post1150358

Before you jump in, if you want to give some cheap treatments a shot, I suggest Auto-Rx. Use their high mileage instructions which will require two bottles and take some time. It helps restore seals and is not a solvent. It really cleans up dirty engines and keeps them clean. I run it in my car and if you look at my pictures (see sig), when I swapped my cams, my engine was extremely clean compared to others with the same mileage and conditions.

How much would replacing the worn out seals cost on a DIY job?, as mentioned below and from past experience I know this brunt oil will cause more problems (maf sensor, air filter, O2 sensors and even cat converter will go bad because of it) I might give a try to the Auto-RX, do you know about any success rate for re-aconditioning the seals? If not maybe I'll just go with the new seals and will add some once I've finished. =)

Originally Posted by danielsatur

The valve stem seals are worn out!
1) Block the EGR Port and go with an external PCV filter.

This car will run so much better, the MAF sensor and air filter wont get contaminated with oil.

This sounds kind of interesting too, besides the oil not being sucked into the combustion chamber, are there any other pros or cons on doing this? How should I exactly do that?.

Best regards,

Oscar.

[Blue)(Fusion]

Originally Posted by danielsatur

1) Block the EGR Port and go with an external PCV filter.

This car will run so much better, the MAF sensor and air filter wont get contaminated with oil.

Don't do this.

Blocking the EGR system is illegal (although not uncommon) and will make you fail emissions if your state/county requires it. The EGR system lowers emissions at cruise speeds and does not affect the performance of the engine. It closes when you increase throttle to ensure maximum power output of the engine when commanded.

The PCV system is far downstream of the air filter and MAF sensor. There is no way oil can get on your air filter or MAF sensor. The only improvement to the PCV system you can do is use an oil/water separator in the PCV valve vacuum line. This will catch most of the oil. It is not necessary as ALL PCV systems suck up fine vaporized oil in the crank case and deposits it along the intake system and most of those cars run just fine, mine included. Just change he PCV valve (less than $8 at the dealer) every 60k miles or when the valve doesn't open and close properly. My original PCV valve with 95k on it operated perfectly when I replaced it. Do NOT use generic PCV valves - they do not have the same flow properties as Motorcraft PCV valves!


I do not know the cost of the parts. I never had to do it before. You will have to pressurize the cylinders to prevent the valves from falling in and I hear it is a PITA job.

[danielsatur]

Because of the Age + mileage of this car, the wear tear on valve stem seals are going to leak oil, the PCV, and EGR gases are going back into the intake. The feedback from the O2 sensor will just confuse the ECU for the Air/fuel mix control.
Your symptoms of a cold hard start and hesitates, tells me your MAF sensor is bad, or contaminated, because of poor emission.

[Blue)(Fusion]

Originally Posted by danielsatur

Because of the Age + mileage of this car, the wear tear on valve stem seals are going to leak oil, and throwing all the PCV, and EGR gases back into the intake. The feedback from the O2 sensor will just confuse the ECU for the Air/fuel mix control.
Your symptoms of a cold hard start and hesitates, tells me your MAF sensor is bad, or contaminated, because of poor emissions.

You don't see this stuff on race cars!

I don't deny that the valve stem seals are probably worn and that the oil can contaminate the O2 sensors and cats, but the MAF sensor is nowhere near the exhaust system. Only clean, filtered air goes past the MAF sensor. It may be dirty from other fine contaminants. Get some CRC MAF Cleaner from your local parts store, spray it on the MAF sensor wire, and let it dry. Pull the negative cable from the battery for 15+ minutes to reset the PCM's learned fuel trims and drive around a bit for it to relearn.

Since it's hard to start when cold it's probably due to the valve stem seals letting the compression leak just enough to make it hard to start. Do a dry compression test on the cylinders.

[olopezm]

Thanks for the info Blue)(Fusion. Now that you have mentioned the MAF being far from the PCV hose I completely agree with you, however I'm still not happy with the O2 sensors and cat being contaminated this is what makes me want to fix it ASAP, I will have to take care of it anyway and I really want to save time and money from having to replace the sensors and cat.

About the PCV filter, I knew there would be more cons than pros, I don't agree with this kind of "bypass" nor removing the cat from any vehicle! .

About replacing them I've read from another forum mentioning I can use a rope to fill the cylinder avoiding the use of compressed air, both methods still sound like a PITA XD LOL.

Thank you danielsatur for pointing me to the MAF but I know it is in a good condition, I know the symptoms of a bad MAF from my other two cars and there is no point of comparison, besides I never mentioned it was hard to start, it just stalls once almost every morning and if I let it idle a bit more it won't stall I guess this must be because of that nasty vacuum leak.

Now onto the vacuum leak, I've found lots of info on a common leak for these cars, it is located at the intake elbow and is a rubber tee connected to the PCV hose, the intake elbow and some other thing, this is where my problem lies I have no idea where it should be connected to since my TC doesn't has that rubber tee, the PCV hose is connected straight to the intake elbow. Can anybody point me to the third connection on the rubber tee?. I have uploaded some pictures to show what I'm talking about.

Best regards,

Oscar.

[Blue)(Fusion]

I never looked too closely at a '95, but my '00 has the PCV line directly connected to the plenum with no tee connector. If you have some propane, you can use it around the running engine close to vacuum lines and the intake manifold gaskets. When the RPMs rise from the propane getting sucked in, you found where your leak is.

I find the usual point of failure is the red and green vacuum lines on the passenger side of the engine. They get brittle over time and crack easily. The lower o-rings on the fuel injectors also get overlooked.

[danielsatur]

Because of Age + mileage, the plastic, rubber, and seals will go bad in time.
Most of the vacuum leaks are usually caused by a bad EGR, or PCV system.
A good smoke test can pin point your vacuum leaks.
See Google ''Youtube Auto smoke test for vacuum leaks''

By isolating the PCV + EGR system, you can pick up some lost horse power.

''In the car valve stem seal replacement'', it isn't worth the time, because of the high mileage.

[olopezm]

Blue)(Fusion yesterday I ordered a new PCV valve form the dealer because the one I used for replacement is a generic one, thanks for the advice the only bad thing is that it hurts my pocket because here in Mexico the PCV is $215 pesos (that's $16 dollars) :S

I'm planning to do the dry compression test, how many PSI should I be expecting? Anyway I'll post the results as soon as I have them.

danielsatur about the seals replacement not worthing the time, are you saying I should just get a new engine or do a full overhaul of mine?. Thanks for the tip on the EGR+PCV isolation but I still don't agree with it, apart from the smoke puff the engine still runs great and I won't be racing it anyway XD, the only other problem I have is a small kick between 1st and 2nd gear however I have no idea why is this...

Best regards,

Oscar.

[danielsatur]

By isolating the EGR + PCV system from your engine will run better, and should run good for another 200k miles.

A little leaky valve stem seal is really no big deal, after 400k miles you make consider a new Engine.

Try to find out how much oil is being burned inbetween oil changes.

Doe's Mexico require to have a routine emission test on used cars?

[Blue)(Fusion]

Originally Posted by danielsatur

By isolating the EGR + PCV system from your engine will run better, and should run good for another 200k miles.

As stated before, this is false. The PCM is expecting the EGR valve to open, thus expecting different readins from the HO2 sensors when commanded open. Since the PCM does not know it's not opening, it compensates incorrectly, which can cause the mixture to go too lean or rich and will either cause more heat/damage or waste fuel. The PCV system should remain as it is to keep the crankcase ventilated properly to keep it and your oil clean!

Originally Posted by danielsatur

A little leaky valve stem seal is really no big deal, after 400k miles you make consider a new Engine.

Try to find out how much oil is being burned inbetween oil changes.

Agreed, if you only get a bit of a puff on startup and burn less than a quart in 3,000 miles, it's "acceptable." Your compression should be around 120-130psi and all within 10 psi of each other.

If it does come down to needing the stem seals needing replacement, just get a used engine. 1996 and up do not have the stem seal issue. 2001 and up are PI (Performance Improved) engines and can offer a little more performance over 1992-2000 engines. 2000-2003 have known weak timing chain tensioner arms which should be inspected/replaced (not hard to do - see pictures in my signature). You can get a used engine with under 100k for under $1000 easy. Avoid engines from police cars if possible - they have high idle times compared to civilian models.

Doe's Mexico require to have a routine emission test on used cars?[/quote]

[olopezm]

Thanks again, Mexico does requires an emessions test twice a year and early this month the car passed fine. About the oil yesterday it was abit below the middle of the crosshatched area, right now is at the minimum mark I think that's too much isn't it? Could a wrong oil type change have caused or accelerated this? It was changed 2 months ago...

Best regards,

Oscar

[danielsatur]

Is the blue smoke is coming out of both tail pipes?
You might beable to isolate it down to a bad bank, and do the valve stem seal replacement on that bank only.