Head Service

[torlok2002]

Guys? Anyone able to provide any advice whatsoever? I'm pulling my hair out with dead ends.

Ignition Coil - tested
connector and wires to ignition coil - OK
Connector and wires to Cam angle sensor - OK
Spark plugs - Tested
Ignition wires - Brand new
All Fuses - one replaced for radiator fan, all others OK'
Compression - OK in all 4 cyl.


All I can tell is that sometime when I turn the car to the on position it makes a pretty loud humming sound from what seems to be the fuel pump(but if it were this loud I would of noticed before), and a relay above the brake fluid reservoir starts clicking. When it does this it seems like the starter does not have enough power to crank the engine very fast. Occasionally the Tech will go all the way around when it is doing this. If I do get a second without this, after trying to start it, this sounds starts back up and the crank decreases to about 1/2 or less the speed. If I pull the plugs out I do not get spark in any of them?!?!?

Please, any idea's on what to test or inspect. This is just about the most frustrating thing...

[SilvrEclipse]

One of those relay is for the fuel pump. You may have a problem with that system. If the pump and relay are acting weird something must be wrong with it.

[torlok2002]

Well, went ahead and dropped the cash to have a shop scan it since things were going strange electrically. They ended up finding the cam position sensor was all out of whack which was causing the tach to go all the way around back to 0. They also seem to think the timing is still off somehow. From what I'm guessing the ECU will not make spark if it detects the camshaft and cranks timing's off to attempt to prevent damage?

So my next task. Pull off all belts and damper pulley to recheck the timing... Right now my motorcycle is getting some new parts including fork seals and is occupying the garage.

[torlok2002]

OK, finally an update. I got the motorcycle done and vacation out of the way (Riding the moto on Tail of the Dragon in NC/TN (See http://perfected-insanity.blogspot.c...on-dragon.html and http://perfected-insanity.blogspot.c...n-slaying.html for details, one of the best roads in the states)).


Engine unmounted again and timing inspected. I don't know what I was smoking when I put it back together, but I got the Camshaft's Exactly backwards. Instead of the timing marks being towards each other when the Crank was TDC, they were the farthest apart from each other. I was rushing to get things back together, maybe I turned the crank 180 from TDC accidentally before throwing the belt on. I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to get things back together properly. All in all I was able to get all that done in 3 hours by myself. I'm getting pretty good at taking this car apart compared to the first time :-P

[david-b]

I went through the Dragons Tail on the way to South Carolina. That was fun! Some good ole driving. I hit it at about 7 or 8am going, and then around 9 or 10pm coming home. Both time, had some real fun. Scary not knowing where the cops ever were though.

Hope the timing fixes all your problems. You never know with timing. My boy has an IS300 and got cams installed and his mechanic swore that it was perfect, but he was losing so much power. Turns out it was off by 3 teeth.

[torlok2002]

Oh indeed that was a great road, especially on 2 wheels. I had the most fun I've ever had on the bike out there.

As for the car, Ive got all timing back together now, and all the crankshaft damper pulley and all belts and all back on. Also water in the radiator and all that good stuff. I had a dead battery, so I just got a replacement(after autozone screwed around and let it sit there for 6 hours sitting on a cart, not charging to test it). I have not mounted the engine back on the mounts yet however.

Does anyone know of any issues of trying to start it while like this? It is well supported underneath by several jacks and boards. I'm made sure that none of the belts or spinning parts on the passengers side are going to get caught on anything. I just would like to save some time *incase* I have to tear things back apart again.

[SilvrEclipse]

I have started mine with only the side mounts in, I would not start the motor with no mounts on it, it may vibrate off the jack or something.

[torlok2002]

OK, Everything back together and I'm back at square one. Cranks just fine. Compression is fine. No CEL. Has Fuel pressure. I've triple checked the timing to both the Haynes and Chilton manuals before I installed the timing belt.

Doesn't try to start at all..... From what I can tell it has no spark. If I pull the plugs out and hook them onto the ignition wires I should see spark right? Do I have to wire them to something metal for them to spark?

I feel like I'm loosing it. It was running fine (sans burning oil in one cylinder) before I pulled the head. >:-(

[torlok2002]

Well, after more troubleshooting and research. I ran across these gemms. I tried adding them as attachments, but it failed. So I put them on my server for now. If someone wants to add them as as attachment that would be cool

Credits go to Sean485 on DSMtalk.com forums.

http://entropy.ghostnation.org:8080/Eclipse/Page1.jpg
http://entropy.ghostnation.org:8080/Eclipse/Page2.jpg
http://entropy.ghostnation.org:8080/Eclipse/Page3.jpg
http://entropy.ghostnation.org:8080/Eclipse/Page4.jpg

I'm stuck at Step #4. I can crank, have fuel, have good compression, but no spark. I guess I can check the Primary and secondary coils again...

There is no CEL light on when I turn on, but could it still be throwing something? Would a code scanner be of any help?

[torlok2002]

Well, last night I remounted the engine and got everything sans intake filter hose back on. And (little surprise) no spark. I'm absolutely positive I have the timing on correctly this time. So...


How about a little incentive for your troubles? If someone is able to correspond with me via email and help me figure out how to get this thing starting (I think all I need is spark), I'm offering a reward of $100(Saves me from dragging it to the shop again). I know this is the internet and all, but I am honest to my word, and can speak via telephone if you would like.



Just a recap of what has gone on so far:
1. Water pump failed fall of 2008 , trashing valves.
2. Engine had 197k miles on it, so i decided to do a full rebuild
3. New Valves, valve seals, rings, all new seals and gaskets. Head, crank, and block sent to shop. New starter motor, oil pump, water pump, head gasket, head bolts, ignition wires, spark plugs, etc
4. Put it all back together, started on first try. Drove it ~120 miles. Ran well, but was burning oil in Cyl#2. Looks like Rings were not gapped well enough.
5. Decided to replace the rings in Cyl#2. Pulled head and Cylinder#2, replaced rings on it. New Head gasket and head bolts.
6. Put everything back together again, but timing was 180 deg off (timing marks were on the outside rather than inwards towards each other). And was getting no spark... I had hand rotated the crank before hand, and nothing was binding, so no valves should of been damaged. During this the Camshaft angle sensor was replaced with a new one.
7. Unmounted engine and pulled timing and found out my errors. Timed correctly and mounted engine. Tested Compression in all cylinders to verify no damage was done with 180deg off timing before, and it's good on all cylinders. Tested resistance in all coils

8. -Now... Can crank all day long(ok well, until the battery wears down), but no spark. There is fuel present at the rail w/pressure. Looked for quite a while for something unplugged, but nothing I can see.


I'm grasping at straws now... I don't know what else to check for??? If I do not get any response from this I'm going to try towing it to the shop yet again, but it's such a pain and it'll prob cost $100 anyway, so I'd figure I'd try my luck here with people that know these inside and out.

[torlok2002]

OK, well no response on that. I'm down to trying random things now. I'm looking at grabbing the ECU out of a 96 auto RS. Anyone know if any issues with this?

Will the auto ECU's work with Manuals? It should just be the two big plugs on the side of the ECU and then the mounting brackets right?

[SilvrEclipse]

Sorry man I didnt see your post. Yea an auto ECU should work but you may get a CEL for not having some of the auto tranny stuff hooked up and your rev limiter is set at 6500rpms. Check all of your plugs going to sensors, I had the same problem after pulling the motor once and I turned out to be a bad connection on the crank sensor. Had to just unplug it and plug it back in. It could be something that simple. Good luck find the problem. I know how frustrating it is when it wont fire up

[torlok2002]

Originally Posted by SilvrEclipse

Check all of your plugs going to sensors, I had the same problem after pulling the motor once and I turned out to be a bad connection on the crank sensor. Had to just unplug it and plug it back in. It could be something that simple. Good luck find the problem. I know how frustrating it is when it wont fire up

I'll look well again... Unplug and replug everything. engine might be coming off of the mounts again if nothing is found in an effort to find anything wrong. If the timing IS off somehow again I'm checking myself into a mental institution...because I've obviously lost it! :-/

would getting code scanner help at all. I don't get any CEL's when I'm trying to start but....

[david-b]

Won't help if there's no CEL on.

Ya this is a tough one. Check the crank and cam sensors. Also, there is a little capacitor that bolts into the valve cover, right after the cam sensor. Is that there and plugged in?

[torlok2002]

Originally Posted by david-b

Won't help if there's no CEL on.

Ya this is a tough one. Check the crank and cam sensors. Also, there is a little capacitor that bolts into the valve cover, right after the cam sensor. Is that there and plugged in?

Not really sure what you're referring to. Have a pic? Is it actually an electrical capacitor? On the drivers side behind the CAS?