5 cars you hate the most

[pimprolla112]

i said SUV, and i said i BELIEVE that it might have been crammed into a saturn. You really think gm would want to put that an engine from a japanese competitor is powering one of there cars.

But here you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_L66_engine

have fun with that.

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by kevinthenerd

I think the Civic is overpriced. Let's compare the MSRPs for base models. Wouldn't you agree that these are comparable models? It's not like I'm throwing the Kia Rio, the Chevy Aveo, or the Hyundai Accent into the mix.

Honda Civic - $14 760
Toyota Corolla - $14 105
Hyundai Elantra - $13 865
Chevrolet Cobalt - $13 590
Kia Spectra - $13 475
Saturn ION - $12 490

The Saturn might be the lowest here due to "no haggle" pricing.

All those cars except for the Corolla are far inferior cars, the GM's for thier inferior quality and the Elantra and Spectra, for just being far short of the mark set by the Civic.

Ans even then the Civic can claim to be better equipped and more sporting than the Corolla, thus justifying the $700 (NB: That's based on the European perspective, not sure of equipment levels in the USA)

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

eh?
you think that GM equivilant cars not costing as much as a honda civic is the reason why they are going to hell?
has it ever occured to you that the civic is simply worth the extra money and the equivilant GM cars aren't?
i also guess you don't like the new mini then.
or the golf.
or bmw 1 series.
or audi a3.
£18,000 for a focus st?
£16,000 for a renault clio?

if the honda civic is overpriced, then those cars must be absolute rip-offs.

Have you seen the suspension geometry of the BMW 1 series? The roll axis inclination is flat, which is very rare for a road car. I've never driven one, but I'd imagine, for several reasons, that the handling would put it in an ENTIRELY different class than the Civic. And yes, I believe $33600 (USD) for a Focus ST isn't exactly a steal, even with its independent suspension and five cylinders and all. It's a modified grocery-getter; you might as well get a Dodge SRT-4 which is a much better deal. If I had that kind of money to spend on a car right now (and was going to buy something new) I'd go with a Mazda RX8 or something else rear wheel drive.

[Jimster]

You have to look at it proportionally.

£18,000 wouldn't get you anywhere near a Mazda RX8, it would probably get a nicely equipped 4 Cylinder 407 or Vectra, but the RX8 is closer to £25,000

The Civic Type R was £15,000 when it was back in its' old EP3 form.

[drunken monkey]

....but then again, that z axle at the back of the 1 series renders it next to useless when compared to things like the civic and focus as a family hatchback car.
In terms of usefullness and hence value for money, the BMW 1 would rank quite low in this respect.
Does a family hatchback need that level of handling capability?
Does that rear drive and z axle make the 1 series better than the new focus and civic?

what i don't get here is that you are going along with the fact that the BMW 1 series costs more because it has more vested technology, engineering and quality in it but you can't seem to see that the same is true of the Civic when compared to the other cars in that list of yours.

As was pointed out, the EP3 Civic Typre-R was list at £15,000 (ish...)

That's not far off from the average selling price of a Mini Cooper S.
Which one is overpriced here then?

[mason_RsX]

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

And a side note you do knoe that gm uses a honda motor in one of there smaller suvs and i believe saturn uses it to.

Thats the Saturn ION Redline...and no other GM Car. I don't know why GM would put so much effort in getting a Honda engine, then stuff it in a car that's gonna sell 1000 units a year. I think they should have put it in the G6.

and when you consider price I think the Cobalt is very comparable to the Civic...It might not be as stylish, but it is fuel effecient, has a decent interior, is roomy for a econobox...and I would take Cobalt SS over a Civic Si

and yeah...I do own an RSX Type S and I am suggesting a Cobalt SS....What of it?

[pimprolla112]

Hey i dont have any problems with that.

Yeah i couldnt remember which vehicle it was in. I like the cobalt, the only reason i would take a new civic si over the cobalt ss is the k series engine. Other than that i dont like the new civic, YET. Man this is a down hill battle.

[blakscorpion21]

i thought the ion red line used the ecotec just like the cobalt. i like the cobalt ss as well though. for a new car under 25k id get one.

[pimprolla112]

I like them better than a sartie even if thay are alower and still have little aftermarket support. I give it about another year and it should have the support that the sarties have now.

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by mason_RsX

Thats the Saturn ION Redline...and no other GM Car. I don't know why GM would put so much effort in getting a Honda engine, then stuff it in a car that's gonna sell 1000 units a year. I think they should have put it in the G6.

and when you consider price I think the Cobalt is very comparable to the Civic...It might not be as stylish, but it is fuel effecient, has a decent interior, is roomy for a econobox...and I would take Cobalt SS over a Civic Si

and yeah...I do own an RSX Type S and I am suggesting a Cobalt SS....What of it?

Are you sure about that? I don't think the LSJ is from Honda. I believe it has more Opel pedigree than anything.

[blakscorpion21]

idk if ive posted my 5 picks in this thread but

1. h2/escalade/insert other "blingmobile".
2. dodge caliper
3. chevy hhr
4. scion xb
5. dodge charger/300c.

[pimprolla112]

Id agree with everything on that list except the HHR. I kind of like it im not sure why everyone i know says it looks like a pt cruiser. And as for the charger yes i know it the market but that would have been like making the new mustang a 4 door or a 4 door celica or something of that matter. And the caliber is just plain ugly.

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

i thought the ion red line used the ecotec just like the cobalt. i like the cobalt ss as well though. for a new car under 25k id get one.

That's true, but the 2.2L L61 is destroked to 2.0 for the LSJ, and it has an Eaton roots-type supercharger as well as many minor differences throughout the motor. The L61 has inferior connecting rods and valve train that partially limit its ability to make high horsepower in a modified configuration. I think that the LSJ's crank is rated to higher power, but I'm not sure; that could just be from the reduced bending stresses of a shorter stroke. The LSJ was definitely designed to be tuned more than the L61, and GM will gladly admit that in order to get you to buy the Chevrolet Cobalt SS and the Saturn ION Redline, which are almost identical mechanically (Delta architecture). The LSJ is/will be also available in the Saturn SKY Redline and the up-level Pontiac Solstice, which again are pretty much identical mechanically (Kappa architecture).

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

Id agree with everything on that list except the HHR. I kind of like it im not sure why everyone i know says it looks like a pt cruiser. And as for the charger yes i know it the market but that would have been like making the new mustang a 4 door or a 4 door celica or something of that matter. And the caliber is just plain ugly.

have you heard about the hhr ss theyre planning? it has more power than the cobalt ss, wtf. i think the cobalt ss is in need of a small power boost, being that it is a way cooler and sportier car than that brick on 4 wheels. i hate it when they put good engines into gay cars(hhr, caliber, magnum)

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

have you heard about the hhr ss theyre planning? it has more power than the cobalt ss, wtf. i think the cobalt ss is in need of a small power boost, being that it is a way cooler and sportier car than that brick on 4 wheels. i hate it when they put good engines into gay cars(hhr, caliber, magnum)

The GM Sport Compact Build Book can show you how to build up the ECOTEC, in various stages, from stock up to a 1400hp drag racing motor. The Ariel Atom now uses the ECOTEC, and the highest hp available is 300hp, street legal in the US (which is why I believe they switched from the Civic Type R motor, which wasn't IIRC). The book is available online as a free download somewhere... I can find it for you if you really, really want me to.