You Can't Steal My Christmas!

[CL8]

Originally Posted by ExoticSpotting

Do homosexuals have the right to be legally classified as a couple? Yes.
Do they have the right to adopt a child? Yes.
Do they have the right to the same benefits (Inheritance, Helthcare benefits, etc.) heterosexuals have? Yes.

The issue for christians isn't all of that, we would love to see homosexuals get the rights you listed above. The issue is that marriage is a religious institution, and we don't want the goverment butting in and creating regulations and such that would force churches to marry gays under the threat of a discrimination lawsuit (that seems to be a common tactic, note the Eharmony case).

We are worried that the goverment is going to get involved with religion, and begin scraping away at our traditions.

The government IS already scraping away at our traditions.
(No bible teaching, prayer or ten commandments in schools to name a few)

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by thrasher

......... To cite just one example, the Bible supports the slaughter of all the people in a town, followed by the kidnapping, forcible marriage, and rape of hundreds of innocent women. (Judges 21:10-24)

Does the bible support this, or does it record it as an historical account? Did you read any of the rest of the book of Judges to tell whether this was a normal state of affairs or if it might have been a period in their history where the Israelites were living without a king and might have been doing this on their own? If you read more of the Old Testament, you will find many accounts of Israel's disobedience to God. They were often punished for it.

Humanist written history records many accounts of depravity and man's inhumanity to man. Do we then also say that these books support and condone that behavior simply because they give written accounts of same? Or, do we come to the conclusion that the Mongols, Huns, Roman Empire, Stalin, et al, actually represent true humanity and they are examples to be followed?

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Does the bible support this, or does it record it as an historical account? Did you read any of the rest of the book of Judges to tell whether this was a normal state of affairs or if it might have been a period in their history where the Israelites were living without a king and might have been doing this on their own? If you read more of the Old Testament, you will find many accounts of Israel's disobedience to God. They were often punished for it.

Yes, the bible does support it. I have read the bible cover to cover, several times actually (grew up catholic) so I have no shortage of perspective on the subject. This sort of activity is found throughout the Old Testament, and is certainly not isolated to the Book of Judges (Numbers and Deuteronomy are good ones). There are in fact more heinous crimes condoned in the bible, like forcing rape victims to marry the perpetrators, or putting to death rape victims who do not scream because "they are in the city". Aside from its historical importance, there is no logical basis upon which the bible can viewed as providing a universal moral code, particularly in comparison to modern theories that emphasize secular humanism and environmentalism.

Humanist written history records many accounts of depravity and man's inhumanity to man. Do we then also say that these books support and condone that behavior simply because they give written accounts of same? Or, do we come to the conclusion that the Mongols, Huns, Roman Empire, Stalin, et al, actually represent true humanity and they are examples to be followed?

The bible is not a history book, not even close. How many history books have cult followings akin to modern religions? Bible = religious text.

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by thrasher

I have read the bible cover to cover, several times actually (grew up catholic) so I have no shortage of perspective on the subject.

OK. Thanks.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

OK. Thanks.

Hah...I aim to please

[03cavPA]

Yeah, it always helps to know where somebody's coming from, even if we don't agree.

[CL8]

Originally Posted by thrasher

Yes, the bible does support it. I have read the bible cover to cover, several times actually (grew up catholic) so I have no shortage of perspective on the subject. This sort of activity is found throughout the Old Testament, and is certainly not isolated to the Book of Judges (Numbers and Deuteronomy are good ones). There are in fact more heinous crimes condoned in the bible, like forcing rape victims to marry the perpetrators, or putting to death rape victims who do not scream because "they are in the city". Aside from its historical importance, there is no logical basis upon which the bible can viewed as providing a universal moral code, particularly in comparison to modern theories that emphasize secular humanism and environmentalism.

Thrasher, I also grew up Catholic, but I was never encouraged to read the Bible in the Catholic church. It wasn't until I became an adult, started seeking God, found what it meant to be born again, that I found encouragement to read and believe the bible.

Also, could you:
1. cite the scripture for the bolded
2. give any SPECIFIC names of people in the bible who were forced to do those things.

Thanks, Cl8