Disappointed

[Scottie300z]

performance for dollar I would say the Wrx wins.

And Ls1, have driven anything other than a domestic?

Because if you would you might be surprised on how well the import performance cars handle.
And the SS will only beat the new Z from a stop. That is if it is anything like the old Z, Z's have killer top end and you wouldn't ever pull away from one while at a roll.

Hell, compare a Z32 N/A to a Z28 from a roll and see how close that race is. 13 sec car Vs a 15 sec car and tell me you would just pull away from a Z from a roll.

Just personally I would take a broad power band, handling and road going skills over low end.
Just seems like more of a sports package.

[ducati996]

Originally posted by LS1Steve
Okay, i call you crazy!

The camaro has been taking a hit in the last few years definitely because the economy and gas prices. Mustang has outsold it because the name is more of an american classic cliche that attracts first car just-got-my-license kids and your 40yr old nervous breakdown need-to-get-my-youth-back mid life crisis types who don't know dick about cars and want the most trendy thing available. If you calculate hp in relation to dollars spent, you will find that the LS1 (and even the LT1's) have been the cheapest dollar-per-hp, and dollar per top speed mph. You can get a Formula for $20k stripped down, what other new car can you get for $20k and go 160mph bone stock??? I guess it all boils down to personal reasons/opinions. You would take the Z, I love the Z but i'd take the Z...06.
See you on the road!!

(& hope you brought your 100shot!!)

The economy and gas prices are not reasons why the the f-body are going away. SUVs consume more gas then any other vehicle on the road, and they are the fastest growing market. The majority of the SUVs cost more then the f-body cars, so it's not the economy. GM cut productions on Camaro/Firebird becasue of the growing SUV market, and because f-body are out-dated and out-sold by Mustangs. They should just keep only ram-air TransAm. The Camaros are f-ugly with the Chrysler Concord headlights! Why would someone even buy a V-6 camaro/firebird! hmmmm....that would explain why GM cut the production on it.

[Zcarfan]

it IS NOT an economy thing, why do you think there are now 227 hp Subarus, 270 hp VWs, 450 hp MBs, 400 HP BMWs, the HP in the Mustang is going up and up as is the Z, teh Altima, the Accord, etc,etc... EVERY FREAKING car is getting more HP, and the Camaro is dying?!?!?

funny you brought up the tradition of the Mustang, I am 32 years old and I don't look at the Stang as having any more history than a Camaro SS or RS, or the Pontiac Firebird, all those cars had a great history (that must be why old americans always say "they sure don't build them like they use to-TIC). Those cars are FUGLY and drive like crap (btw, if that segmant is dead why are they bringing out a new GTO with so much power??).

[LS1Steve]

Originally posted by Scottie300z
performance for dollar I would say the Wrx wins.

And Ls1, have driven anything other than a domestic?

Because if you would you might be surprised on how well the import performance cars handle.
And the SS will only beat the new Z from a stop. That is if it is anything like the old Z, Z's have killer top end and you wouldn't ever pull away from one while at a roll.

Hell, compare a Z32 N/A to a Z28 from a roll and see how close that race is. 13 sec car Vs a 15 sec car and tell me you would just pull away from a Z from a roll.

Just personally I would take a broad power band, handling and road going skills over low end.
Just seems like more of a sports package.

whoaaa there!!!

okay where to start explaining myself first.
As far as the WRX, great car, I just perefer n/a engines, I trust them more. I have sold cars for a couple months and worked in shops and have driven EVERY type of car basically. I know the camaro has flaws as does every car, but my main point WAS the dollar-per-hp. It does depreciate, but so does every car, cars are not good investments. Camaros will actually depreciate LESS now that they are discontinued, I believe the figure I heard was like 15-20% less. As far as TOP END, I am NOT scared. The LS1 is probably one of the first 5.7L GM has produced that actually breaths at high RPM (stock). The top end is AMAZING and is actually one of the highest points the car has. The powerband is excellent so all you really have better is the handling (which I admit). I'm sure GM has its reasons for taking a break from F-bods, if I had to take my best guess, i'd say they have spent too much time in developing engine technology rather that the rest of the car, it is one of the last sports cars with the solid live axle and thats partly to blame for the handling. Mine definitely needed some work before it was able to handle. I don't want this to get into a bad heated argument or anything, look at every car thread on the net and people will defend their preference to the death. We were all brought up differently and have grown to like different things. My preference is V8 torque, and i'll give up some handling to have it, untill I can afford something with both. I don't expect everyone to have the same priorities in a car, but if I meet you on the highway and we both decide to punch it from a 65mph roll, (before I modded the car) I wouldn't bet the pink slip if I was you. Now if we were at an autocross event (before I modded the car), I wouldn't be betting MY pink slip.

[importriders]

Yes, all cars depreciate, except classics and collectibles. But the Z will always depreciate less than the LS1, always. Like you said, simple supply and demand.

[LS1Steve]

Well if I was to buy a Z over an LS1 today, by the time i'd be selling it, i would hopefully be at an income status where the depreciation $$ saved would be negligable. Well thats the goal. So I concentrate on which I will enjoy driving instead.

[Scottie300z]

I wouldn't bet the pink slip if I was you.

I could take this as a jab.
Like if you were calling me a F&TF wanna be, but I'm not because I really don't think you meant it that way.

And I also really am not that educated an chevys (you might be able to tell) so it sort of leaves me w/ little to no credability on this subject, but I do know that I have raced 2 Z28's from a roll and won both. Now they may have been sorry drivers but how am I to know that.
My thinking is though that if they are average to good drivers and I still win, then what would a TT or a car that may be similar do? ( I call the TT and 350Z similar due to the similar hp specs and 1/4 mile specs)

I also said Z28 and not SS b/c I don't know too much about the different set ups between the engines. (besides the power gains, if there is any other differences)

Maybe I can get a good link to inform me?
And I am also sorry for calling you out by asking if you ever drove an import. That was just stupid especially since I have never driven a SS.

[LS1Steve]

no problem.

one thing to keep in mind is that racing an auto from a roll is a whole different story than a 6sp. The stock auto has "dead spots" depending on what mph you start at. You have the WRX? cool little car, & an great bargain as well.

[Scottie300z]

Actually one Z28 was auto but the recent one was manual.
Killed the auto but the manual stayed pretty much right behind my rear bumper.

And I don't own a Wrx, I just brought it up b/c of it's price and performance.
I drive a '90 Z 5 spd

[Zcarfan]

interesting that you brought up Autos, I was on a walk with my wife tonite and a Vette passes by and the guy has his convert down, music going, chrome wheels thinking he is all cool, then the car SHIFTS (on its own) in other words it was an Auto, I almost started laughing. Why are 70% (or is it 80%) of vettes sold with autos????

btw, I spoke with a salesman on Thursday (a patient of mine) who has been selling Chevys for 30 years, he tells me the Camero is DEAD, and isn't coming back, where are you getting your info that it is coming back????

[Holyterror]

Why they sell auto Vettes, we may never know...

Actually, it's simple. Most of the people who buy Vettes are simply interested in picking up girls who think their car is dead sexy. Of course, I think the '72 Stingray is the sexiest car ever made, so maybe they have something there. My point is that most of the Vette drivers couldn't care less what's under the hood as long as the exhaust rumbles a bit, just like all the people with V6 mustangs and Flowmaster exahusts, revving their engines at every stoplight - right before getting wasted by the little white Nissan that sounds like a diesel.

Here's the deal with personal preference: a lot of people forget about the fun factor when it comes to sports cars. Ultimately, the car will grow on you much more over time if it's fun to drive. My Pulsar was quite slow when I first got it, but it was really fun to drive, especially after a suspension upgrade. Later, the additional power was great, but at it's core it was just tons of fun (more so than the 300ZX turbo I nearly bought instead!) The WRX is a really fun car on the back roads (think: dirt), but anything powered by an LS1 will spice up city driving a lot. There is still room for personal preference here, but it really depends on where you spend more of your time using the performance potential of the engine. If you only use it at the track, get a car with lots of top end. If you're a graduate of the offensive driving school, get something with monster torque. You get the idea.

The Camaro has always been about raw power and simplicity. The Z has had several distinct phases (pure sport to GT to... an Infiniti without leather seats), but over the years has become a more sophisticated car, with that unmistakable Japanese balance. Some days, I'd rather drive one, sometimes the other. If I could only have one car, it'd be the Z, though.

Another thing about Vette drivers, notice how many of them are turning into ricers. They don't usually cover their cars with vinyl, but a lot of ZO6 badging is showing up on T-Tops and convertibles. Hmmm...

[Getafix]

Guys, guys. Your not looking at this situation in a rational manner. Not everybody in the world wants a huge cruiser that can kick anything on a straight. Most of the roads you drive on have corners and turns. Most Amarican cars, beautiful and powerful as they are, are bloated highway cruisers. They have terrible handling. They're serious bang for buck, but please don't have the audacity to try me that American cars handle well. You have not experienced handling until you've driven a proper Japanese or German car. I've driven everything from Vipers to Pontiacs to Mustangs. I now drive a Skyline GT-R34. US cars are so cheap because they have cheap technology. They put a huge engin in a big body and make sure it can go fast. They soud great but they don't handle. The Viper and Pontiac have kitcar build quality and guzzle fuel. The Z has awesome handling, great interior luxury, speed, amazing build quality at a competative price. If you think dragging is fun, try a twisty mountain road. Anybody can floor a pedal. Control is the issue. The Z would kick any US car on a twisty road or townrace.

Please look at this from more than a drag perspective.

[LS1Steve]

keep in mind that while everyone praises the Z, 99% of the people on this board have not yet even driven one yet

[Scottie300z]

Getafix has it right.

and I also liked

, but it really depends on where you spend more of your time using the performance potential of the engine. If you only use it at the track, get a car with lots of top end. If you're a graduate of the offensive driving school, get something with monster torque.

from holyterror

[frankltt1]

i have the new 350 and its a show stoper i cant drive down the road without every one i pass looking and commenting as for the z28 you cant get better performance for your $ i had a 93 z LT1 headders borla intake and high flow cat and i roasted 2 new c5s(corvetts) the 350 looks much nicer in person pictures don't do it justice