Panda 2.0 vs Pontiac Firebird V6

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by camaroincal

I'm in Norcal. You have a nice car....it's just you were mad or something when u posted your original post because anyone who read that and owns a V6 Camaro or Firebird feels offended by the way you worded it. And it is true that a 3.8 @ only 10 psi is capable of mid to low 12's. And your car is just maybe scratching at high 12's.............so....

I wasn't mad/upset/angry when I typed my post. I was just explaining how I felt during that time.

I was earlier in the day when the event happened. But that was because I was tired from work and driving all day and being in the sun all day. I just wasn't in the mood at the time. Normally, if somebody is gonna make fun of me or my car I just laugh too. Cause I don't care. No reason too.

BUT, I do think you're just upset that it happened to be a Firebird with a V6 that got totally annihilated. I don't see any other V6 F-body owners posting about how I've offended them that one of their brethern died in battle.

Sorry that I've offended you... nothing against F-body v6/v8 cars. I'm a Chevy guy at heart. Actually, ever since GM cancelled the F-body I really haven't been a Chevy/GM fan, except for the Corvette.

Just please, remember Camaros are not the end all performance cars.

[Jetts]

wow what a bunch of fuckin whiners man

matt the car is sick, have fun with it and i hope the whiners will jsut give up, damn!

[DeViL]

That V6 makes a nice economy motor. But with the market and potential that the LS1 has, there is no point in modifying that V6. If insurance and cost really holds you back from the Trans Am, there was always a much cheaper model called the Formula ya know.

[RACER D12]

Well camaroincal I understand what your saying you just went about it the wrong way.

First of all I love how everyone on here is like for "2 grand more buy a V8", not EVERYONE buys new cars. Used a V6 is much cheaper then a V8... for the most part. Why not mod a V6? its got more potential then a lot of engines on here (including the SR) and its DIFFERENT. I mean why mod a SR when you can mod a KA or RB and make it faster? No one rags on you guys. And yes I agree the SR is why too played out and overrated... Its almost as overrated as the skyline. (oh no I didn’t just say the Skyline is overrated Sarcasm )

Do I like the SR yes, but come on people the SR is getting as unique as a civic. And I think people I starting to develop the skyline attitude of "They only sell it in Japan it must be better".


Anyways in the end would I mod a V6 F-body? Yes. If given the choice of V6 or V8 of course I would go V8 but life doesn’t work like that. You race and mod what you got.

One thing though camaroincal. Even if you turbo the V6 like his SR he’s still got the Power to weight ratio on his side don’t forget. However true you never did say your car was faster then his.




PS-Im getting my first car next week yea me! Its a 1987 BMW 325is 5 speed im soo skied.

[kman10587]

First of all I love how everyone on here is like for "2 grand more buy a V8", not EVERYONE buys new cars. Used a V6 is much cheaper then a V8... for the most part.

Well, it depends what year. But it's always going to be a small enough difference that it would make much more sense to get a V8.

The SR20 is overdone, yes, but it's not overrated. People get it for what it is, a cheap racing motor that bolts into the 240SX. The KA24 and RB25 are better drag motors anyways, and most people know that.

[DeViL]

Well since F-bodies aren't created anymore, you can't buy anything but a used car. I don't really see where money is an excuse either, maybe an LS1 powered F-body is still quite expensive right now, but there is still the LT1's from the early-mid 90's. I can't imagine most of the older ones being over $12,000, and that's not a lot to spend on a car with payments. Hell there is even the 3rd gens with 305's and 350's which would still fly past a new V6 F-body like it was a moped.

Sure I get throwing a supercharger on the V6 if you want a little more pep, but it's not the engine to use if your serious about drag racing with an F-body.

[RACER D12]

Originally Posted by DeViL

Well since F-bodies aren't created anymore, you can't buy anything but a used car. I don't really see where money is an excuse either, maybe an LS1 powered F-body is still quite expensive right now, but there is still the LT1's from the early-mid 90's. I can't imagine most of the older ones being over $12,000, and that's not a lot to spend on a car with payments. Hell there is even the 3rd gens with 305's and 350's which would still fly past a new V6 F-body like it was a moped.

Sure I get throwing a supercharger on the V6 if you want a little more pep, but it's not the engine to use if your serious about drag racing with an F-body.

Yea but if he likes the newer body style then a person may op for the V6. And you COULD still make loads of power with the V6. Its just a matter if you want too.

[RACER D12]

Originally Posted by kman10587

The SR20 is overdone, yes, but it's not overrated. People get it for what it is, a cheap racing motor that bolts into the 240SX. The KA24 and RB25 are better drag motors anyways, and most people know that.

And thats my point. Why cant the same be said about the V6?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by RACER D12

Why not mod a V6? its got more potential then a lot of engines on here (including the SR)...

LMAO

I'd like to see the the stock 3800 in the Camaro, hold up to getting boosted after 100K miles, and hold up-to 100K more miles.

Not to mention, I'd like to see it hold up-to 20psi of boost with stock internals, and up to 360WHP, again, with stock internals...and that's just the N/A version of the SR, the kind that is in my car. The already-turboe'd version (with even beefier internals) has been proven to hold up to 500+WHP in Japan with stock internals.

Not dissing the potential of the 3800, but you need to research a bit before you make wide claims like that, that some poor sap might end-up believing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More:

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/engine_...nifolds,%20etc.

"The SR20 is blessed with a near bulletproof bottom end. The crank and rods are forged steel unlike the typical cast iron that most American motors run. The rod bolts are a beefy 9mm. The crank features rolled fillets, an uncommon strengthening operation used usually only for racing or heavy duty parts. The rod bolt registers are spot faced, leaving a generous amount of metal around the bolt holes, a traditional weak area in connecting rods."

"Both the crank and rods are subjected to a severe shotpeening from the factory. Shotpeening microforges the surface of the part making it stronger and harder while leaving the interior soft and ductile. This step can improve the fatigue strength of a part by over 100% and is usually reserved for high end racing parts. The main caps are tied together with a stiff aluminum girdle which improves bottom end rigidity significantly. This feature is usually found in all out race motors. These design elements produce an engine that is nearly bulletproof. I have seen motors with over 100,000 miles on them with the factory honing marks still visible in the cylinder bores! The number of list members in the 100,000 Mile Club is a testament to the durability of the SR20."



http://www.importspeed-south.com/enjuku_racing_240.htm

"The complete package has netted Enjuku 544.2whp at Secret Services's dyno on STOCK bottom end. They are still getting more track time and working out little kinks - keep your eyes out for 10 second et's this year at a race track near you."

[DeViL]

"The complete package has netted Enjuku 544.2whp at Secret Services's dyno on STOCK bottom end.

They act like its a big deal that its the stock bottom end but damn if its already got a forged steel crank and rods, what the hell else would you need to use but the stock bottom end? Thats kind of nice that it does come from the factory with that kind of quality though.

[RACER D12]

Not dissing the potential of the 3800, but you need to research a bit before you make wide claims like that, that some poor sap might end-up believing.

Duly noted



Still though if for nothing other then displacement the 3800 theoretically should make more hp in the end. 360whp is impressive but what kind of tq is the SR20DE throwing down with that hp? However I did some research this time so I don’t look stupid again. The 3800 is a cast iron block with iron heads so it should be able to hold a decent amount of power stock. Stock its putting out 205hp and 230tq and when I looked around I found a lot of 3800 making in the low to mid 300 with stock bottom ends. I found a supercharged GTP making 458HP/488TQ at the crank but he had forged pistons so I don’t know if you want to count that one. None the less though they seem to be able to handle a decent amount of power. (Don’t we have a GTP racer on here) Still though I have to admit the SRs 360whp with stock internals damn impressive. I think the 3800 could maybe do the same but it would be close. However don’t tell me the SR20DE will last very long being pushed like that either. In the end though if you mod both engines with forged internals the 3800 would make more power...just cause its bigger pretty much.

I definitely have a LOT! more respect for the SR motors though...them little things are beasts.



Had to write this dumb thing twice deleted first one

[camaroincal]

Originally Posted by ac427cpe

i wasn't going to say anything... but, i can't stop laughing from this statement. in my BONE STOCK *aside from a straightpipe* Estock 1986 Rx7 n/a, i could beat street prepared and STX/STS class camaros from the late 70's/early 80's

are we living in the same reality? or are there just a lot of those in your local chapter...?

No actually they do well in G-stock category. Search...don't assume.

[camaroincal]

Originally Posted by RACER D12

Duly noted



Still though if for nothing other then displacement the 3800 theoretically should make more hp in the end. 360whp is impressive but what kind of tq is the SR20DE throwing down with that hp? However I did some research this time so I don’t look stupid again. The 3800 is a cast iron block with iron heads so it should be able to hold a decent amount of power stock. Stock its putting out 205hp and 230tq and when I looked around I found a lot of 3800 making in the low to mid 300 with stock bottom ends. I found a supercharged GTP making 458HP/488TQ at the crank but he had forged pistons so I don’t know if you want to count that one. None the less though they seem to be able to handle a decent amount of power. (Don’t we have a GTP racer on here) Still though I have to admit the SRs 360whp with stock internals damn impressive. I think the 3800 could maybe do the same but it would be close. However don’t tell me the SR20DE will last very long being pushed like that either. In the end though if you mod both engines with forged internals the 3800 would make more power...just cause its bigger pretty much.

I definitely have a LOT! more respect for the SR motors though...them little things are beasts.



Had to write this dumb thing twice deleted first one

Thanks for taking the time to actually read up on the V6 put in Camaro's (3800 series 2) If only the 3800 had an after market and research and developement like the SR20DET.....

[ac427cpe]

G Stock Drivers: 41 Trophies:11
T 1 199 Robert Carpenter 01 Toyota Celica Blue Kumho 53.598 53.575 53.506 106.884
[99] Knoxville, TN Volunteers X-ray, Kumho, Evo 63.100(2) 53.881 53.378
T 2 26 Ian Baker 02 Mini Cooper S Red Hoosier 59.550(2) 53.585 54.519 108.369
[126] Herndon, VA Mini Mania/CG Lock 55.520 54.802 54.784 -1.485
T 3 94 Mike Lillejord 03 Toyota Celica GT Yellow 54.919 53.988 53.883 108.413
Redmond, WA Team Pajama 56.836 56.151 54.530 -0.044
T 4 184 Alan McCrispin 03 Mini CooperS Blue Hoosier 53.672 56.227(1) 53.915 108.528
[84] Huntsville, AL Mini of Charleston/MINIUSA.COM 56.119 55.997 54.856 -0.115
T 5 99 Jim Zeisler 01 Toyota Celica Blue Kumho 54.331 54.227 54.221 108.998
[199] Harrison, OH Rite Track Racing 56.021 56.435 54.777 -0.470
T 6 191 Rob Foley 00 Toyota Celica GT White Hoosier 56.564(1) 53.556 54.824 109.197
[91] Randolph, NJ HUOA Racing 57.297 57.769 55.641 -0.199
T 7 198 Craig Wilcox 04 Mini Cooper S D. Silver Hoosier 54.133 54.187 53.973 109.251
[98] Blue Springs, MO Jackie Cooper Mini/Oasis Tan. 57.111 56.569 55.278 -0.054
T 8 63 William Loring 00 Toyota Celica GT Blue Kumho 54.993 54.237 56.235(1) 109.420
Osceola, IN The Tire Rack 58.946 55.347 55.183 -0.169
T 9 126 Brian Garfield 02 Mini Cooper S Red Hoosier 54.845 54.379 54.265 109.568
[26] Mount Airy, MD Mini Mania/CG Lock DNF 55.527 55.303 -0.148
T 10 179 Jeff Templeton 00 Subaru Impreza Silver Hoosier 57.386(1) 55.292 55.115 109.831
[79] Maplewood, MO democracy 56.386 54.716 59.953(2) -0.263
T 11 84 Mark Allen 03 Mini Cooper S Blue Hoosier 57.783(2) 54.287 54.761 110.366
[184] Weston, FL Miniusa.Com 57.991 57.581 56.079 -0.535
12 162 Patrick Washburn 95 Plymouth Neon Holstien Hoosier 56.308 54.647 54.916 110.508
[62] Wausau, WI C Tech Alum Trailer Cabinets 57.108 55.861 DNF -0.142
13 98 Ryan Barnard 04 Mini Cooper S D. Silver Hoosier 55.695 54.735 54.956 110.877
[198] Blue Springs, MO Oasis Tan/Jackie Cooper Mini 58.676 57.549 56.142 -0.369
14 39 Jeff MacRae 03 Mini Cooper S Red Hoosier 55.032 55.708(1) 54.732 110.942
Bethlehem, PA Helix Minisports 60.389 57.101 56.210 -0.065
15 40 Michael Deyer 95 Honda Prelude VTEC Azure Kumho 56.620 55.138 55.746 111.027
West Valley City, UT Form + Function 59.481 56.709 55.889 -0.085
16 91 Kenny Sorensen 00 Toyota Celica Gt White Hoosier 54.518 53.930 53.440 111.217
[191] Prince Frederick, MD THANKS ROB 57.848 57.777 62.354(2) -0.190
17 175 Randy Webb 03 Mini Cooper S Yellow Hoosier 55.557 55.237 55.357 111.277
[75] Highland Ranch, CO Webb Motorsports 59.221 56.656 56.040 -0.060
18 68 Jason Minehart 02 Acura Rsx-S Blue Hoosier 56.330 55.555 54.891 111.306
Palm Coast, FL Team Underdog 56.639 56.415 56.783 -0.029
19 96 Mark Hirt 00 Toyota Celica GT Blue Hoosier 55.561 54.801 54.886 111.373
Prospect Heights, IL 58.013 57.184 56.572 -0.067
20 97 Gerno Reinard 02 VW Gti 337 Silver Kumho 57.056 55.727 57.929(1) 111.729
[197] San Antonio, TX Mike's Mom 56.509 57.191 56.002 -0.356
21 14 Tom Dupler 02 Mini Cooper S Blu 56.217 55.914 55.544 111.731
Derby, KS 59.678 58.777 56.187 -0.002
22 73 Scott Bowman 03 Mini Cooper Dark Silve Hoosier 55.163 55.058 56.681(1) 111.881
Leander, TX MinisUsa.com 57.934 65.060(3) 56.823 -0.150
23 85 Jon Krolewicz 85 Honda CRX Si Blue Hoosier 56.614 55.935 54.762 111.913
Pontiac, SC Seat Time Driving Days 57.267 57.151 58.107(1) -0.032
24 18 Bryan Schafer 95 BMW 318ti Red Hoosier 59.008(2) 55.036 54.845 112.075
Blue Ash, OH 60.421 58.613 57.230 -0.162
25 17 Bob Bornkessel 97 Dodge Neon ACR Black Hoosier 59.404 55.295 55.639 112.607
Overland Park, KS KU Medical Center 59.314 57.312 DNF -0.532
26 197 Mike Roberts 02 Volkswagen Gti 337 Silver Kumho 58.873(1) 55.951 59.142(2) 112.681
[97] San Antonio, TX Mike's Mom 59.749(1) 56.730 56.834(1) -0.074
27 4 Todd Peikert 94 Saturn Sc2 Blue/Black Kumho 57.430 56.462 56.866 112.786
Houston, TX Old Capitol Motorsports 56.324 56.926 60.474 -0.105
28 79 Chris Lybarger 00 Subaru Impreza Silver Hoosier 59.879(1) 57.162 56.592 112.872
[179] Bethalto, IL 57.815 57.803 56.280 -0.086
29 177 Louis Kitel 93 Ford Probe GT Silver Hoosier 57.520(1) 54.977 56.803(1) 113.050
[77] Pointe-Des-Cascades, QC www.cadl.qc.ca 60.460 59.168(1) 58.073 -0.178
30 75 Grant Barclay 03 Mini Cooper S Yellow/Whi Hoosier 57.574 56.226 55.812 114.023
[175] Loveland, CO Advanced Spine & Rehab DNF 59.244 58.211 -0.973
31 92 Bob Jardine 02 Ford Focus Black Hoosier 56.417 54.913 55.260 114.101
West Covine, CA 59.188 62.339 61.443(2) -0.078
32 42 Mike Bronson 93 Ford Probe GT Black Hoosier 58.529(1) 56.533 56.508 115.459
West Des Moines, IA 61.851(1) 59.144 58.951 -1.358
33 76 Carl Turner 03 Volkswagon GTI Red Hoosier 58.735 57.640 DNF 115.737
Colorado Springs, CO Terranaut 62.406 60.572 58.097 -0.278
34 95 Charles Frank 02 Toyota Celica GT Blue Hoosier 57.264 56.422 56.087 116.227
Durham, NC CHARLES FRANK, goldsmith 60.140 DNF DNF -0.490
35 77 Simon Bougie 93 Ford Probe GT Silver Hoosier 63.294(2) 56.947 56.906 116.946
[177] Terrebonne, QC www.cadl.qc.ca 62.074 60.040(1) 60.471(1) -0.719
36 53 Mark Shaw 03 VW Beetle Turbo S Grey Hoosier DNF 58.762(1) 58.749(1) 119.731
Chandler, AZ Windupkey.Com 63.653(1) DNF 60.982(1) -2.785
37 22 Sean Ittner 00 Ford Mustang V6 Black 62.882 60.758 59.358 119.995
Dawsonville, GA Thanks Mom & Dad ! ! ! 67.717 63.634 60.637 -0.264
38 89 Walter Day 87 Volkswagon GTI Maroon Hoosier 61.907 62.127 61.429 126.025
Derby, KS Escape Reality Racing DNF 68.649 64.596 -6.030
39 69 Jared Adamson 95 Dodge Neon Blue 68.958(1) 64.250 64.988 132.698
Salina, KS 91.466(2) 68.448 74.427(2) -6.673
40 62 Dan Hampton 95 Plymouth Neon White 56.871 59.318 58.590 No Time
[162] Galesville, WI DNF DNF DNF
41 2 Neil Wilson 02 Ford SVT Focus Blue Hoosier DNS DNS DNS No Time
Oak Harbor, OH


well, here are the results from this year's nationals for G-Stock. did you search? or do you feel that nationals isn't a fair control group?

[GritMaster]

OMG MY EYES!

Uhhh.... yeah.... I think someone just got owned.