Lost to Acura CL types S

[skids929]

Originally Posted by Frezny

I simply worded it incorrectly. The #1 rated fuel efficient car in the country, which happens to be a hybrid, is the Toyota Prius. It's rating is based on build quality, drivability, safetey, etc...


It is not faster that a 5spd 4th gen in a 0 - 1/4 mile race. But, it is close enough that driver ability will dictate the win.


And I'm glad that you, like most of of the people purchasing cars, believe the peak HP numbers means you are faster. As I said, Honda's marketing has put them on top of the game, and it is because of people like you believing in "fluff" like this. If I have a 5-10 HP gain over you through the entire upswing of the RPM range, with the exception of the final 1000 rmps, where you peak higher than I peak, I am still faster. How much time do you spend in that rpm range vs the amount of time you spend in the range when I have more HP?


No, I just think that you are missinformed and generalizing things too much.



You don't have to believe me, that's fine. I just don't want the other people who are reading this to take your opinion as fact without data to support your arguement.


Anybody else want to take this challenge with a 5sp Max? I don't have my Max anymore. I would be willing to bet that if you are both average drag drivers, the Max will win the 1/4 mile.

You are right, this argument is dead, but it was fun while it lasted.

To all those reading, take from this what you will, but if there is one thing you take away from this, know this. Peak HP numbers are just a very small measurment of an engine/car's ability to accelerate. The total HP/TQ curve is what is important. Take total measurements and compare them with things such as drive train lose, drag coefficient and power/weight ratios, and you can roughly calculate how thing actually rate.

Blah, Blah, blah, blah...My closest friend has a 4th generation 5sp Maxima and I have raced and beat him on several occasions. I don't know what part of this you refuse to understand. You can live in denial all you want, but the new Accord will beat your 4th generation Max. Like it or not it is the truth. Driver ability means absolutely nothing in a quarter mile either, you step on the gas at the right moment and let the car do the work, so quit being foolish. Like I said stop splitting hairs and deal with the fact that your Max is outdated and slower than the new Accord. And if you want to sit here and say this is my opinion, I can't argue with that, it becomes a philisophical argument of words. I am TELLING you I have put this to the test extensively, in the field! And what happens in the field is very different than what happens on paper ya simpleton, any good engineer will tell you that. Get over your stats, numbers and pride and deal with it.

[n1smo]

You know what I find funny... We are having a conversation about a car that is almost 10 yrs old going against cars today and the agruement can still be made that the 10 yrs old car can beat those new cars. That by itself is a testament of how good the Nissan VQ is. If this point had been covered already then sorry... I have not read the entire thread yet. :P When I had the 96' Max, there was nothing within it's price range that could touch it. I still drive a 2003 Max and it doesn't lose to anything in its class.

[Frezny]

Originally Posted by skids929

Blah, Blah, blah, blah...My closest friend has a 4th generation 5sp Maxima and I have raced and beat him on several occasions. I don't know what part of this you refuse to understand. You can live in denial all you want, but the new Accord will beat your 4th generation Max. Like it or not it is the truth. Driver ability means absolutely nothing in a quarter mile either, you step on the gas at the right moment and let the car do the work, so quit being foolish. Like I said stop splitting hairs and deal with the fact that your Max is outdated and slower than the new Accord. And if you want to sit here and say this is my opinion, I can't argue with that, it becomes a philisophical argument of words. I am TELLING you I have put this to the test extensively, in the field! And what happens in the field is very different than what happens on paper ya simpleton, any good engineer will tell you that. Get over your stats, numbers and pride and deal with it.

I too have friends with these cars, in addition to seeing multiple videos of Maxima owners beating Accords, CL-S's, and plenty of other cars in 1/4 mile races, modded and not modded. These cars are in FACT evenly matched enough that driver ability will determine the win. Which part can't you understand? Maybe you can't cope with the notion that an "outdated" car, can hang with your "newer" car? Maybe your friend can't drive a stick well enough to match your ability to drag your Accord (although, according to you, it doesn't take much skill). Your experiences are not a controlled environment, documented, or objective enough to say "Accord will always beat the Maxima", which although are not your exact words, it tends to be the point you are making.


Tell you what. Answer these questions honestly, and let this be the end of it.

1. Do you think that the Accord can lose to a 4th gen Max in the 1/4mile, ever (a yes or no answer is required only)?

2. By how many cars lengths have you beaten your friend in a 1/4 mile race? (mind you, your answer will give us a rough determination to how fast you were traveling, and a good guess as to what your actual 1/4 ET would be. It will also help to understand how well you and your friend are at drag racing.)

3. What is your 1/4 drag time for your Accord (so that we don't have to calculate it based on your response above)?

4. Did I ever say that the Max couldn't lose to the Accord in the 1/4 mile?

5. Do you actually believe that a peak HP number is more important than a balanced hp curve?

[skids929]

Oooohhh now your tune is changed to the Max can 'hang' with the Accord huh? Before it was the Max could beat it. And why are you trying to make it sound like I am embarrased that one of my cars is slower than the other? I own them both you foolish dolt, and love them both for different reasons, but the fact is the Accord is faster than the Max in every way (as it should be since it is newer etc)...So paaaalease dude, don't try and corner me with your useless close-ended questions to try and force the answers your so hopelessly looking for, this conversation is over..Boy, you are an incorrigible SOB, good luck to you an yours.



P.S. get a life.

[Frezny]

Originally Posted by skids929

Oooohhh now your tune is changed to the Max can 'hang' with the Accord huh? Before it was the Max could beat it. And why are you trying to make it sound like I am embarrased that one of my cars is slower than the other? I own them both you foolish dolt, and love them both for different reasons, but the fact is the Accord is faster than the Max in every way (as it should be since it is newer etc)...So paaaalease dude, don't try and corner me with your useless close-ended questions to try and force the answers your so hopelessly looking for, this conversation is over..Boy, you are an incorrigible SOB, good luck to you an yours.



P.S. get a life.

Why not just answer the questions?

Do, you really enjoy dancing around the subject by focusing on fictitious details? I had hoped to “force” you to address them by asking simple questions, but you seem unable to do even that, possibly as a result of that fact that your responses demonstrate that you lack skills such as reading comprehension and analytical thought.

[Frezny]

Accord:

¼ mile times both mid 80 degrees

Relative Humidity 85 %Rh
Without injen cai
60’ 2.369
330 6.529
1/8 9.869
MPH 74.03
1000 12.792
1/4 15.249
MPH 91.93
April 16, 2003

Found: http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ght=1%2F4+time

97 5spd STOCK: 14.7 or any other time you may want to take your pick from here: (NOTE, not all these times are for stock Maximas) http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=242988

Perhaps the only way to prove it better is if I posted actual timeslips?

[BP2K2Max]

dammit everyone needs to chill out. skids just disagree's. it's his right as an american. i disagree with him so...

Originally Posted by skids929

If I had a choice, I would drive a 99 anything over a 96, it is newer. I don't disagree with you on the 50 more horse point you brought up, it is exactly what I am trying to say to the person who earlier in this thread claims their 4th gen Max could beat a Type S. Paaaaalease!

well i posted this

"my friend has an 01 cl type s and it's not all that fast, i could hang with him in my 4th gen and when i got my y pipe i'd pull on him and he had 260 hp and 213 lbs/tq. the CL S weighs 3400 lbs., a whole 1/4 ton more than a 4th gen max. so once you factor in the weight (100lbs=~10hp) you're realitically comparing a 210hp car to a 190 hp car, they both have similar tq Acura has the advantage by a measly 8 lbs of tq pushing an extra 500 lbs of body weight. he was auto i was 5 speed so it's totally feasible."

and i stand by it, except that it's 232 tq not 213. i didn't race the 6 speed cl, i know for a fact that would probably have handed me my ass, it was the 5 speed auto w/ manual mode, but when you figure in acura's tendency to make their cars so overweight, their hp ratings are nothing more than pretty numbers dulled down by the cars obesity. HP sells cars that's how they move their units. like the "amazing" the 240 hp S2000. they fail to mention that it only has 159 lbs of tQ and needs to be redlined every gear to actually move the vehicle. the 190 hp Type R teggie. that thing weighs 2800 lbs. a measly 95 lbs less than the maxima. however the maxima makes 63 more lbs of TQ. same with the 99 SI with a whopping 160 hp but a meager 113 lbs of Tq. i used to beat them all the time in my SE-R cuz it had 25 lbs of tq more and weighed less, the 15 less hp didn't mean anything. same goes for the 200 hp RSX type S with it's 140 lbs of TQ. saying a 190 hp car can't beat a 240 hp car is stupid, especially when that 240 hp car makes almost the same Tq and weighs significantly more. i'm not saying i could have beaten an accord, or that i have, i'm just saying making judgements like that based solely on the HP rating is stupid. a cl type S runs a 15.3 in the 1/4


look:
Motor Trend, Road Test, June 1994
"Our tester, a five-speed SE version of this fourth generation of Maxima, produced a blazing 6.6-second 0-60-mph time, and a 15.2-second, 92.4-mph quarter-mile run. Ask us,
and we'll tell you how the Maxima SE will whip the Integra GS-R, and Taurus SHO;
the new Maxima also shows no mercy on its Nissan stablemates: It'll stomp the normally aspirated 300ZX, and drivers of automatic-transmissioned 300ZX Turbos best not be snoozing when the light goes green.
This demure-looking family car is the quickest Japanese sedan available in the States."

the N/A 300zx's at that time made 220 hp, which is 30 more than the max, but look what happened.

[BP2K2Max]

i just wanna make it clear that i think a 4th gen max will lose to a 3.0 accord. i also think that a 3.0 accord will take a CL type S. i've driven in the cl many times: rarely as a driver but often as a passenger it's just a very good looking car that's grotesquely over weight.

[Frezny]

And...

Just because something is "old", it doesn't mean that it is slower than something that is "new". I can name 10 cars off of the top of my head that are at least a decade older than the Maxima, and can hand the Maxima its butt. I'm not playing favorites, just facing facts.

[BP2K2Max]

Originally Posted by Frezny

And...

Just because something is "old", it doesn't mean that it is slower than something that is "new". I can name 10 cars off of the top of my head that are at least a decade older than the Maxima, and can hand the Maxima its butt. I'm not playing favorites, just facing facts.

BUICK GRAND NATIONAL. 'nuff said.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by Frezny

And...

Just because something is "old", it doesn't mean that it is slower than something that is "new". I can name 10 cars off of the top of my head that are at least a decade older than the Maxima, and can hand the Maxima its butt. I'm not playing favorites, just facing facts.

And I could prolly name 50 new cars off the top of my head that would show a Maxima it's taillights. Like a Saturn Ion Redline, or an SRT-4 for example. Yours is a moot point; of course a Ferrari, Lambourghini, Porsche, or the likes will smoke a Maxima. There are a whole shitload more cars now that would dust a Maxima than there were in 1984. This is the fact; cars are WAY FASTER than 20 years ago, or even 10. Hell, that Ion Redline would piss on any Mustang GT before the 1999 model year. Now that is some crazy shit.

[Pick]

Why don't we compare the 2002-2003 Maxima to the CL-S instead of the 4th gen.

This should be the comparo:
2002 Maxima SE 6-speed
2002 or 2003 CL-S 5-speed


Now who gets the spanking?

The CL has .2 liters on the 4th-gen Maxima, plus it has two doors and a different purpose as a car.

[JBL85]

At least this will take focus off the long lost Altima vs Maxima thread to a new place.

MAXIMA is better. Thats my $10.00. Pick was right to compare the 6th 2k2 to a 2k2 CL, a bone stock 6 speed runs about a 14.5 from the numbers I've seen people post with acuras, I have seen more Nissans touch lower 14's with stock cars and even have the time slips to show it.

And its sad that the Maxima is that good that it needs to be compared with Acuras best which even is a luxury sports coupe, not sedan.

[Pick]

Better yet, let's compare the TL with the Maxima. The 6-speed owners of the TL-S owners are lucky for their transmission to survive after 50,000 miles.


Or try this: G35 vs. CL-S.

Let's not even go there.

[JBL85]

Actually the G35 Auto is kinda slow, never been in a CL-s, but the thing has no balls for 280hp, I guess it doesnt help when you just got out of your friends GT stang .