Bmw sucks - hard to accept, but true

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

so what...?
you'd rather people keep re-hashing last years designs instead of doing something different?

here's a fun thing to do.
take a look back to what were concept cars 20-30 years back.
then compare to what is being bandied as concept cars today.
we need to have people like bangle doing different things or else nothing moves on and you end up with designs that re not much more than bodykits.

Amen to that.

It seems everyone's forgotten the criticism BMW received for its redesigns of the E36, E34 and E32 into the E46, E39 and E38 respectively for being too similar.

So on one hand, BMW gets criticised for being too conservative, and on the other for being too extreme. Lose-lose situation

[CanucksRT]

How about a good medium like other automakers?

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by CanucksRT

How about a good medium like other automakers?

O god no. BMW should be anything but medium or average. Lexus is average, and they make some of the most boring cars out there. BMW should be that radical company that doesn't follow the rules of what other car makers say should be a luxury car. Benz and Cadillac are conservative, Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are "average", but BMW should be that company that is new and cutting edge. If BMW tried to go down any other path, they would get swallowed up by the rest of the market. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I think BMW is headed in the right direction, even if I don't agree with Bangle's styling cues. I think BMW is the only company with the guts to try something new in exterior styling. You would never see a Benz or a Lexus looking like the newer BMWs, and some people might think thats a bad thing, personally, I'm starting to like it. As long as the engines keep getting better, the manual and SMG transmissions are the best you can get, and they handle better then the rest of the crowd, I'll still be buying BMWs.

[MclarenF1]

Hey everyone.

I'm still a huge BMW fan, but I admit that I prefer the designs of the pre bangle days. Then again, my taste is probably a bit quirky, as my dream used car right now is the M coupe- a car that alot of fanatics consider the most hideous BMW of all time. As far as the post bangle designs go, the 6 series is my new favorite, with the Z4 following close behind. (But am I the only one that wishes they would come out with an M4?) Maybe I'd like the 5 series better if the body style before it wasn't so damn perfect. I really consider the last body style the Mona Lisa of the automotive world. Absolutely beautiful in a simple, elegant sort of way. I want one with a five speed manual, sport package, and the super sweet inline six (I actually prefer it to the V8).

Anyway- the 530 brings me to my point. I was extremely saddened to see this month's issue of Car and Driver. Has anyone else seen it? A BMW 530i placed 6th out of 8 cars. That really hurts. It's worth noting that it was compared to a bunch of V8 models (an M45 won the test), but the beemer was in the same price range as the other cars. Even more painful was the fact that a front wheel drive Acura RL finished second. I'm not really sure what all this means. I can't help but feel like BMW's image as a manufacturer of real driver's cars might slip if this continues. I know the M models are still awesome, but once upon a time just about every BMW model was arguably the best driver oriented car of its class. I guess all this begs the question: is BMW slipping or is the competition getting that good? Don't get me wrong- BMW is coming out with some awesome technology. I am especially excited about the changes that they are getting ready to make to the 6 cylinder. But I'm like alot of other people here. They should NOT make idrive standard, and this active steering thing just isn't getting alot of positive feedback from the press. I won't go so far as to say BMW is starting to suck, but maybe they are diving too deep into the technology pool. Instead of improving the experience for drivers, they are beginning to alienate them. I agree that BMW must remain on the cutting edge, but they have to remember that in order to uphold their reputation, the driver must always come first. Technology for the sake of technology only drives prices up and reliability ratings down.

[kman10587]

The Acura RL isn't front-wheel-drive anymore; it was re-designed for 2005. It uses an advanced all-wheel-drive system that splits torque not only front to rear, but left to right. The car itself is remarkable, but it's a little too bland for some people. Anyways, you bring up a good point - the 530i costs as much as other manufacturers' V8 models. They need to cut all this advanced technology crap and go back to basics. It will lower prices, increase reliability ratings, and improve the driving experience. That's the real problem, not the styling. The new 5 Series just feels so diluted compared to the old model. The iDrive is annoying as ever, the variable-ratio steering doesn't communicate as well, the curb weight has jumped a few hundred pounds, and the price jumped a few grand. It's a better luxury car, but a worse driver's car, and it's starting to drive like every other Lexus or Benz out there. And like DinanM3 said, the last thing BMW needs to be is average.

[mason_RsX]

Thanks so much Mclaren for ruining my C&D! hahaha just kidding

I think that the G35 coupe, and the TL are perfect examples of how you make a car. I think they do different things, and make sure to look distinctive, but still look beautiful. Theres nothing average about their designs...

and Don't get me wrong I like BMW's their honestly my kind of car; beautifully engineered, lots of power, nice firm suspension making the handling incredible, smooth manual transmission, and "distinctive" styling... Id never actually buy a 5 series anyways (much too broke, much to often) but I really like the 3 series

[Rakshas]

I think that C&D test was more than a bit biased.

The price cutoff (55,000) Is just under the 545's 56xxx Price tag. ALso not that the main complaints were the engine(which was at a 110 hp deficit to the M45 and Audi) and the transmission, where the 545 offers a 6 speed manual.

Also not that they tested a 530, which starts at 46,000 dollars. They went and slapped 8,000 worth of options on to make it seem the same price as the other cars. Other cars has very few options such as : the Acura(no options) The Audi($3000) STS(3000) Infiniti(1000) Jaguar(4000) Lexus(4000) Mercedes(3000).

The BMW started out as the cheapest car in the test at 46,000 dollars, bbut they added 8000 dollars worth of options isntead of stretching the limit to include the 545. The top three(Infiniti, Acura, Lexus) start at 49-52,000 dollars.

Compare this to a similar test conducted by Automobile and you see that the BMW Does much better, It's only failing being the much lamented active steering. It is within .1 seconds of the M45 in the 0-60 and within .1 seconds of the M45 in the 1/4 mile.

And when you consider that the 545 is about to be replaced by the 550i with the new 360 horsepoer V8. I hardly think BMW is losing touch with their performance roots, they are simply refining new technology.

[DinanM3_S2]

Yea, I think C&D has gotten tired of BMW winning all of the comparos, so they do everything they can now to have someone else win. I seriously don't think that many of the people considering purchasing an M45, an A6 4.2, etc. wouldn't be considering the 545i. They also knew that BMW is just months away from putting in the new 3.0l w/ 255hp. That would have at least put BMW's power on par with the Mercedes Benz. Its rediculous that they would put a 225hp BMW against a bunch of 300hp + cars. Every other car in the field had a big price and power advantage over the 530i. The timing of the article, as well as the price limit, put BMW at a huge disadvantage.

Heck, BMW NA's website even shows the new 255hp 530i...

[kman10587]

Yeah, BMW got pretty shafted in that comparo. Even with the V8 model, though, I dunno if it would have won. It's still more expensive most, and it still lacks the luxuriness of the E-Class, affordability and versatility of the RL, value of the M45, and brash styling and attitude of the STS. It's a truly great sports sedan, but that's not always what people want.

[drunken monkey]

the best bmws (bar the M cars) these days are probably the diesels.....

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

the best bmws (bar the M cars) these days are probably the diesels.....

Absolutely, especially the 535d.


I actually picked up and had a read of the C&D magazine in question a few days ago and I noticed that all the cars that beat the 5 series, bar the E Class were newer than the 530i, in fact only the E Class (And even then the E350 is a new model) and S Type (Recently improved) were older than the 530i.

The main complaints seemed to center around the engine of the car, but of course a 3.0 Inline 6 is going to feel weak compared to the V8's of the opposition and the 3.7 V6 of the Merc and High-output 3.5 of the Acura RL. If it had been a 545i, I don't doubt it'd have beaten the GS430, A6, E Class and possibly the Acura and Infiniti.

[99onI95]

diesels stink

no literally

[crayzayjay]

After 10 days of no replies, thanks for that insightful comment

[drunken monkey]

not when you're sitting in them with the air-con on.
even if you had the windows down, you'd be too busy cruising on that vat of torque to care.

oops.
you beat me to the post jay....
by the way, i might be getting a job in uk honda's design department or something.... i'm waiting for a phone call to talk more about my suitability (being architecture based and all that...)!

[VAD0R]

Today's Cadillac, conservative?

Sure, they might not have as technologically sophisticated interior nor transmission (but then again I don't think there are that many automakers who have more of, except for Mercedes which is more like their equal but in different aspects). But the Northstar and ported LS1 are pretty state of the art. Not to mention they’re almost like a mix of 80s American and exotic with boxed but edgy frame and arched head and taillights. You also have to remember that Cadillac actually now has one of the most sophisticated AWD systems in their SRX and the racing CTSs which can rival the ATTESA-Pro. Lexus might be considered average but that is where most of their market lies upon, however that is changing with most of their models going hybrid, with a bump in hp plus slightly more sporty styling and a plethora of packages that can almost rival Mercedes Benz. You have to remember different market change slightly for different price tiers.

Btw, I heard this is the last year that the BMW M3 is using a I6, I heard they have a V8 in the works now. I guess this leaves Lexus with the only incline engine in the segment. Tis a shame really, that they are dumping an iconic aspect of the M3, but a high reving almost mini M5 V10 engine sounds cool.