S4 vs. M3 (E36)

[crayzayjay]

So if i bolt on some wheels and a quad-turbo'd V8 to my garden shed does that make it a vehicle i should be proud of? A rice rocket, if i understand the expression correctly, is a piece of sh*t car that's been heavily modified and therefore capable of going like stink. Still makes it a piece of sh*t car if you ask me. If being outdragged by something like that bothers you, fine. I for one dont pay these people any attention whatsoever. If i'm in an M3 i wouldnt look twice at a car like that and certainly wouldnt "play". Bring on the 911's and Ferraris. Anything else just isnt worth the effort.

cheers,
jay

[PFCfutrell]

that's not fair, not everybody has the money to plop down 30+ large on a new bimmer or 70 large for a 911. The fact that somebody would go through the trouble to modify an import car to the point where it runs side by side with 911's and Ferrari's is a testament to their ingenuity. It takes a lot more bloody knuckles and head scratching to get a CRX into the 13's but I guarantee you that the sense of accomplishment is a lot more than the person who spends 75 thousand dollars on a new 911. And that CRX will be paying a hell of a lot less for insurance and gas than the 911 or M3, it's fit and finish may not be quite up to Porsche or BMW standards but i'll bet the owner loves every little quirk on that car.

[crayzayjay]

Sure, but will it handle or just go fast in a straight line?
+ how much money will it have cost to get a "modest" car to go so fast in the first place? With all that money you probably could have afforded a 2nd hand E36 or E30 M3.
It all comes down to your personal preferences. People love different things, and i for one like my cars (fairly) standard.

cheers,
jay

[PFCfutrell]

For well under the price of any '95+ M3 you could buy a '91 CRX and have it handle, brake, and accelerate better than an M3. You would have a vehicle that you could be proud of, work on it with your son or daughter and give them memories. Anybody can buy a car and drive it (if they have a job) but it takes a true "car nut" to make their car their own buy customizing virtually everything about it. The M3 is a great car, no arguments, but it costs so much initially and aftermarket is extremeley expensive. A lot of older imports can be had at a steal and aftermarket is usually huge and inexpensive allowing you even more options when you want to personalize. That's my opinion, i don't want someone asking me what's under the hood and having to say "stock", i want to be able to rattle off a list the size of "War and Peace" explaining all my mods. That's just me, to each his own.

[crayzayjay]

it takes a true "car nut" to make their car their own buy customizing virtually everything about it

theres no end to how much i disagree with that. so because i buy a Porsche GT3 or a Ferrari 360 and it's "stock" the car is not special enough and im not a true car nut? No. To each his own, yes, but being a "true car nut" has absolutely nothing to do with modifying cars.

cheers,
jay

[flylwsi]

on the "new" s4 vs "new" m3 thing, the new s4 is still the older style until the newest version comes out, and that should be a 3.0tt motor with 350ish hp.

the s4 is still the same one as the last couple of years

[gc1chad]

I agree with Jay about the CRX and '95 M3, I mean, no matter what you do to a CRX you will still have a "Honda CRX" and the other guy will have the "BMW M3". I would much rather drive a used stock M3 for 25,000 than a 25,000 CRX with mods, no contest. Yeah the CRX will problably win in a straight line but you won't have rear wheel drive, be labled as the best handling car in america, look cool, and you will always have a Honda and not a BMW. Anyways, just my opinion.

There is more about a car than just the 1/4 mile.

[NISSANSPDR]

No offense to all the drag racers in the world...but drag racing is not the highest form of racing...get down on race in SCCA either Solo I or Solo II...that's the grassroots form of racing and from here you will learn how to truly race. If your lucky, you get discovered by some company or scout and you are driving in amatuer, then semi-pro, then pro levels or racing.

I myself have driven in both Solo I/II in Florida...and I will tell you that I learned more about my car (240SX at the time) and the way it handles and responses then the 3 times I went down the drag strip. I would take 3 Solo I course events anyday or 3 drag strip events b/c you learn so much about how to drive, what to do and what not to do.

PS: Btw...for having a turbo CRX...you're car is not really fast...if your fastest timeslip is a 15.7

[PFCfutrell]

With the turbo i'll be in th 13's, i'm running a 15.3 now almost completely stock except for suspension. My car (as of now) isn't really built for straightline speed but for autocrossing. A CSP CRX with auto-x tires can pull around 1.18g's on the skidpad, that's not bad for front-wheel drive now is it? My front to rear weight distribution may not be 50/50 but with a car that weighs under 2000lbs and a well tuned suspension I can out handle M3's, Corvettes, etc. After upgrading my suspension and brakes I got tired of hanging with fast cars on the turns and then seeing nothing but taillights on the straightaways, hence the turbo project. And for whoever was saying that they were a car-nut if they bought a Porsche 911 GT3, in my book you'd just be spending a whole lot of money to buy a fast car from the factory. Why not buy a 911 turbo and modify it so that it does everything a GT3 does and then some? You'd be proud of your accomplishment and probably spend a lot less money while learning the in's and out's of your car in the process. With the ammount of work I do on my car I can sit here and visuallize every nut, bolt, etc because I don't take my car to a mechanic, I figure if I don't know how to fix something it's because I haven't tried. Anyways... do you not launch your car when autocrossing or other forms of road racing? It took a bit of practice to learn how to launch my car for the best 60' times and now that i'm good at it I beat a lot of RWD, 4WD, and FWD with slicks just because I can launch harder and faster than they can. I embarassed a Subaru WRX (4WD), Civic SIR (slicks), and a Camaro (RWD) at the track by beating them off the line, they spent the rest of the 1/4 playing catch-up.

[Bean Bandit]

As we look at performance the M3(E36) wins (so it doesn't realy matters if we compare an old BMW with the new S4). I think it's more a question what you want a full sports machine BMW or a verysporty luxury car(S4).
BTW the M3(E36) does 0-60 in 5.4~5.6 (we tryed this out).

[crayzayjay]

And for whoever was saying that they were a car-nut if they bought a Porsche 911 GT3, in my book you'd just be spending a whole lot of money to buy a fast car from the factory.

I cant believe you said that. 911 GT3 a fast car, no, a VERY fast car, yes. Not only that but you would be buying a legend in the making, a car with unbelievably precise handling and truly exceptional on the limit.

Why not buy a 911 turbo and modify it so that it does everything a GT3 does and then some?

This shows how little you know about this.
1. A Turbo is faster than a GT3
2. A Turbo is more expensive, i thought thats what you were against
3. A 996 TT could never handle like a GT3 no matter what you do to it. The Turbo is a GT, the GT3 a true race car. There is no doubt the GT3 is the finer car, the best 911 of its generation, far better than Turbo or GT2, though slower than both. Anyone who would choose one of the other two cars over the '3 is an idiot, pure and simple, someone who doesnt know what performance cars are about.


With the amount of work you do, youdo learn a lot about your car and as someone who generally likes finding out how stuff works i appreciate that, a lot. But the notion of that making you more of a true car nut than someone else is ridiculous. If i saved up all my money, took out my savings, sold my house, my wife, my kids etc and bought a McLaren F1 with absolutely no intention of touching any of its inner (or outer for that matter) components does that just make me a dumbass who spent a helluva lot of money buying a fast car? does that mean i appreciate it less? What makes someone a true car nut is how they feel about their car and cars in general. How much you want to drive your car even though you have nowhere to go and really should be doing something more productive. Mechanical knowledge is only one aspect of learning about your car, many others are learnt driving it, and thats what enthusiasts buy their cars for, and intend to do with them. And yes, theyre true car nuts. Whether someone buys a Mini Cooper or a GT3 they can both be car nuts, modifying has nothing to do with that.
Some people buy a fast car and have no intention of changing anything about it, and why should they? Modifying is used to make your car go fast. When you start with something like a Honda hatchback (im not insulting you here, i drive a Golf so this applies to me), modifying is the only option we have to make it go fast. but like i said automotive enthusiasm isnt about speed. anyway... if i had enough money to buy a fast car, or tune a cheaper car, i would go for the more expensive factory-fast vehicle. a FWD will never handle like a RWD and on-the limit handling, no matter how light your car will be, will not be as good, not as adjustable, simply not as good as an M3 or the like. Its common for people to resent those who drive faster cars such as Porsches or Ferraris because the likelihood of each of us owning one some day is not very high. im not saying this about you btw, just wanna make that clear. its simply the truth...

As for drag racing, i think thats the biggest form of BS racing that is. True, learning how to launch your car as fast as it will go is tricky and a good thing to be able to do, but it's like a trick, almost. Learn how to drive your car as fast as it can go around a few bends and i'll be impressed. Racing is going around corners, and no its not ovals either. A good change of direction never hurt anyone

cheers,
jay

[flylwsi]

OFF TOPIC MUCH?

GT3?

this thread is about s4s and m3s...

and whoever said drive em, i did... i liked the s4 better. and that was in the rain. at 90. on a backroad. believe me, it was like i stole it.

so back to the point, or not.

if you have the crx that whups on m3s, i'll take.... the crx... especially over a stock m3. just b/c everyone knows that the m3 is the best handler stock, doesn't mean i should go get a stock one if i can get a crx to handle better... and who gives a funk what other people say?

if my car is better, regardless of what you are driving, and you look down your nose b/c the sticker price was lower, than you have a lot of growing up to do...

if you are driving an m3, and a honda is quicker in a straight line AND in a curve, don't think you're too good b/c you wear armani and he's wearing jeans, b/c that is the attitude.

any car that is up to it... is up to it. regardless of the badge.

[crayzayjay]

No, not off-topic at all. Think out of the box a little bit

[BeEfCaKe]

Well back on topic then... The S4 has quite a bit of hp... but don't forget the quattro, this eats away alot of this hp... so if its drag racing on a dry road, M3 will smoke it easy...

The S4 would handle much better though no matter what, again, cause of quattro.