Buick Grand National

[longlivetheZ]

I assume you mean an air-water intercooler?

[Hypsi87]

Nope air to air intercooler i ment the air tanks on the side. For the Gn's an air to liquid intercooler is the baddest setup you can have. My uncle has a 1989 turbo Trans Am and he has a liquid setup in his car and he have over 1,200 bucks in it. he circulates 40 lbs of ice water through it and it kicks ass but too much money. also I'm gonna figue that you are going to ask me about the Turbo Trans Am. In 1989 for the 20th anniv. pontiac borrowed the buick turbo v-6 and put it ina GTA body. same drive train as a GN but in a TA. ultimate sleeper car they ran 13.4 in the qtr. mile stock. Also it was the only v-6 Trans Am ever. they are extreemly nice. only 1555 where built they re the only production car to pace the indy 500 with the only modifacation being strobelights and an indy decal. There where 3 pace cars one is in indy museum,another is in the pontiac museum, and one was given to the winner of the indy 500 of that year. It was sold later on and is now in some guys collection. something like most where leather inteior and T-tops some where T-tops and cloth inteior and a rare few where hardtop cloth inteior. fast as hell.

[longlivetheZ]

I've actually heard of that TA. I think we might have even read the same webpage or something because you said basically what I read, verbatim. Figures that the fastest TA ever was a V6....should tell the V8 guys something......

[Hypsi87]

Well ive told you all about th GN what makes the z fast ????
I don't know much about them


Andy

P.S love the comment about the v8 guys

[tman]

I could be mean about this, since it's straying off-topic, but I'm interested in this story as well, so proceed.

[longlivetheZ]

Hypsi87.....you and I are going to get along great. You don't like V8's either. Good man.

tman2093...I assume you were interrested in the "why's the Z fast" conversation...
Also, What exactly does a moderator do? I'd like to become a moderator. Any openings, lemme know.

Anyway...about the Z. I should be the Z preacher. I had a 1986 300ZX 2+2 for over 3 years...best car ever. I love reading and learning and the Z of old days, recent, and present are often the topic, so I can tell ya lots about em.

The 350Z is a true piece of work...especially for a car that starts under $27,000. Part of being fast is having a good foundation...a good machine to work with. Some cars are pretty fast stock (the Z), some aren't but can be (civics), some never will be without MAJOR work (yugo), and some are pretty fast stock and can only get better....the Z. Potential is written all over this thing. The engine (the VQ) has been put in Ward's 10 Best engine list 9 years in a ROW (the list has only been in existance for 9 years...) and is the ONLY engine to do this. It is quite high tech. Drive by wire throttle (damn thing revs almost before you touch the pedal), coil on plug ignition (no distributor), Carbon fiber driveshaft....all this and more comes from the factory on EVERY trim level...whether it be the base model or the top of the line track model...same drive line on all of them. The engine pushes 287hp stock. That's a 3.5L V6. Not even a very large V6. Throw some forced induction in there and you can easily have 500hp without compromising daily drivability and the engine's reliability. It's pretty fast from the factory......but can be painfully fast with very little work. There's one guy on this board that has a twin turbo system on it and he's running 12.1something in the quarter on pretty low boost...on street tires. I don't even think it's intercooled, either. It's fast because it is a good, quality engine that can handle what ever you throw at it....much like the GN's engine. I've heard INSANE boost pressures being run on these things. That said...you should know first hand how a good engine is KEY to making a truely fast car.

As for the past Z line (96 back), they've always been quality, leading edge, reliable cars. The 96 is a very interesting car. The engine is essentially 2 I-3 engines put onto one crank shaft. Dual intakes, dual throttle bodies, each side's own bank of cylinders with it's own turbo and intercooler on the turbo model, and dual exhaust. The result is an engine that is VERY responsive. It has the coil on plug ignition as well. The car also had the S-HICAS all wheel steering system which is a true piece of work. Hell....my 1986 300ZX TALKED...if you didn't take the parking brake off all the way, left a door open while driving, left your lights on after the car's off, were low on gas....it told you....literally TOLD you....but it didn't have cup holders......go figure. Not the fastest thing in the world, nor did it have all that much potential, but it was fun to drive. The turbos were better.

Any questions, lemme know guys.

[tman]

Z- A moderator is a member who has shown excellence above other members, and has the intelligence, maturity, and values to not abuse the power. There are two types of mods, regular, and global. regulars have mod power in one forum. Globals have power everywhere. I have the power to move threads, ban bad users,close threads, sticky/unsticky threads, edit other peoples posts(only when profane)and delete threads. I became a mod by asking Igor(the Admin) to send a moderator to the Buick section to clean up, because it was quite disorderly. He offered me the job, and I accepted. About a month ago, I was talking to Igor again, and complained about not being able to ban a spamming member, because i was a regular mod. So Igor promoted me to Global mod. I have power everywhere, but I only really go to the GM forums, so thats what it says in my sig. You need to be here for a while before any chance of mod-ship, don't say anything to get other members mad, and don's PM any mod asking, "Can i be a mod?" That kills your chances, right there. I hope you've enjoyed my long post, but hey, you asked!

PS- The Buick section today is much better than it was a year ago. I asked for the skylark, and rainier forums, I put all of the misplaced threads back in the proper forums, you see the keyless entry instructions on the top of every forum? I asked Flatrater to make them, before he was a mod. The Buick section today is much more active today than it was back then, maybe one reply avery other day, now 3-4 replies a day. We even have regulars now(hypsi, longlive thez, tman) I'm proud of what the Buick forum has become.

[longlivetheZ]

Very nice. I always wondered what you guys did. I figured it was something along those lines, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info!

[Hypsi87]

hmmmm sounds like a very nice platorm to start with. Reading the specs of them I could see that a turbo intercooler and varouis stuff like alky could make this car a real screamer. I bet it out handels the GN . Hotchkiss makes a full suspension kit for the GN that when installed the GN's handle much like a vette . That suspension is on my christmas list. It's not that I hate v-8's, It's just hard to beat a turbo car. good gas mileage, cheap insurance (At least for me I pay 50 a month for full coverage.) you can make awesome horsepower and still remain streetable. and they sound cooler

[longlivetheZ]

They're an awesome platform. Check this out.

I don't think the GN handles as good as the Z, but I'm not sure. I think the Z looks better...that's for sure. That's just me, though. I love turbo sounds....nothing better then scaring the hell out of pedistrians with the blowoff valve.

[Tomsriv]

I have to defend V8's if noone else will. Their is no replacement for displacement. The reason the turbo 3.8s are so fast is because they are one of, if not the biggest mass produced turbo motor in existance. Excluding Diesels of course. A modern 5.7 Camaro will have about the same performance, but as soon as you slap a turbo on there you'll walk the V6 turbo. Not that I'm baggin on the turbo Regals. I am looking for one because nothing else has the mileage and performance that they do. I think the WRX and the new GTO are probably the only other cars out there that provide room for people and luggage in a modern performance car.

[tman]

The current W bodies haul people and cargo farly well. That is what they were designed for after all.

[Hypsi87]

Originally Posted by Tomsriv

I have to defend V8's if noone else will. Their is no replacement for displacement. The reason the turbo 3.8s are so fast is because they are one of, if not the biggest mass produced turbo motor in existance. Excluding Diesels of course. A modern 5.7 Camaro will have about the same performance, but as soon as you slap a turbo on there you'll walk the V6 turbo. Not that I'm baggin on the turbo Regals. I am looking for one because nothing else has the mileage and performance that they do. I think the WRX and the new GTO are probably the only other cars out there that provide room for people and luggage in a modern performance car.

There is a replacement for displacement and that is boost. For every 14.7 lbs of boost you run you essentally double the cubic displacment of your engine. Factors that involve that are turbo eff. and intercooling

Originally Posted by Tomsriv

but as soon as you slap a turbo on there you'll walk the V6 turbo.

If I was worth 22 Mil. 6'6", and could play basketball I would be Jordan. Just playin with you man. But honestly you could not turbocharge an LS1 properly and get the same performance out of it for the money. What would cost me 1k would cost you 10k+ (assuming you are wanting to run the same boost levels as a turbo v-6. Also the turbo 6 will always bee more streetable than any high performance v-8 I know of a high 9 second GN with a stock block and he still gets 19 MPG. You have varible horsepower and varible compression.

[Tomsriv]

Originally Posted by Hypsi87

There is a replacement for displacement and that is boost. For every 14.7 lbs of boost you run you essentally double the cubic displacment of your engine. Factors that involve that are turbo eff. and intercooling

If I was worth 22 Mil. 6'6", and could play basketball I would be Jordan. Just playin with you man. But honestly you could not turbocharge an LS1 properly and get the same performance out of it for the money. What would cost me 1k would cost you 10k+ (assuming you are wanting to run the same boost levels as a turbo v-6. Also the turbo 6 will always bee more streetable than any high performance v-8 I know of a high 9 second GN with a stock block and he still gets 19 MPG. You have varible horsepower and varible compression.

Right, so how much horsepower can you get out of a turbocharged 2.2L 4 cyl compared to a turbo 3.8 V6? The bigger the motor, the more power you will make.


Their is a kit to supercharge an LS1 for $3000 and bumps the HP from 315 to 470. With Intake and exhaust work thats a pretty easy 500 hp. When you say streetable I hope you are just talking about economy, because everyone knows that a bigger engine will be more streetable than a smaller engine with the same mods. I.E. A huge cam in a 283 is a tiny cam in a 454.

I still want a TR because it is the only RWD performance car that runs like a Camaro, has room for people, and gets decent mpg. But the king of performance will always be the V8.

[Hypsi87]

10K was assuming you wanted to run the same boost as a turbo buick. To do that would be alot of internal work. Don't get me wrong I love the v-8 engine. they are just too expensive compared to a TR to get the power out of and as far as streetable with a high performance v-8 you are talking about a constant high compression engine which means 93 or more octane. If I wanted to I could turn my boost down to like 7 PSI and run 87 the performance is varible. I guess in my eyes economy is what makes a street car and how much it costs to get horsepower out of something. 3k is alot for 470 HP. I hope you don't think im trying to rip on you or anything i'm not trying to piss people off here just strike up some decent conversation.

Later

Andy