fwd/rwd vs awd

[RedLightning]

rwd is the best fwd sucks if u want traction in snow get awd GO RWD MUSCLE CARS!

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by freakray

I hope that was posted in sarcasm because if it wasn't your sooo wrong you'll have to make a u-turn to get near right.

F1 cars definitely DON'T only drive in a straight line and definitely DO race in the rain.

Hehehe, trust me, he was being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by Um...Nameless Dork

rwd is the best fwd sucks if u want traction in snow get awd GO RWD MUSCLE CARS!

Yeah, AWD drive will give you more traction on acceleration and more traction in a few instances, but in most cases turning on ice in AWD is just like RWD and FWD, you're going for a ride. It is thinking like that which gets a lot of SUV drivers around here into accidents in the winter.

[slackingonthe1g]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

yes because F1 cars drive only in a straight line and never during rain....

because i see so many F1 cars flying by me on the way to work!

i believe we are (should be) talking about street racing that was at least what i had in mind when i wrote that. thats what i thought the thread was about because i dont think he has enough money for one of those or could even get the groceries in it. (although that would be the most fun trip i ever took.
btw not trying to be a dick just justifying myself

[RedLightning]

its funny when suv owners think theyre invincible and get stuck...course that happened to me...it just goes to show u awd or fourwd does not make u invincible!

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by freakray

I hope that was posted in sarcasm because if it wasn't your sooo wrong you'll have to make a u-turn to get near right.

F1 cars definitely DON'T only drive in a straight line and definitely DO race in the rain.

you dare doubt me....were is that banning button...






wait.....poo...i'm not a mod.....













just j/k...yeah i was sarcastic...i was just trying to make a point....there seem to be a lot of people that thing AWD completelly dominates track racing and i was just trying to show that the fastest cars around a track namely f1 are RWD

[slackingonthe1g]

yeah i totally understand rwd is better on the track. example: I am really into dsms and the big guys doing serious shit convert from awd to rwd. although john sheppard has run 8's in a stock appearring car, all real glass, and only carbonfiber is the hood so. just thought i'd give some useless information.

[Mediocrity]

If by "Street Racing" you mean racing around streets in the dead of night with real live potholes and crappy road conditions then you better look at what you're running first.

If you're running turbo, you damn well better make sure you're running an AWD Grip Racer otherwise once you hit the drift (or you sling your ass around in a FWD using the ebrake) you're going to lose so much pressure off your turbo and you're gonna hit lag drifting around and ultimately your turbo means squat untill you hit the stretches. And if there's not many stretches you're gonna be SOL.

If you're running a supercharger or NA tuning, either or is fine. RWD is a bit flashier and probably a little faster because of your power to weight ratio and a good drift means you lose very little on speed and you come around again with traction without losing power (as you would in a turbo)

But since most street racers these days use Turbos instead of NA then AWD will be the way to go, slap on a few more PSI's and you'll wipe out the competition.

As for track driving, I would still say AWD. It seems the popular thing to do now with AWD is weld your rear diff. or sommat, it becomes more prone to weakening and damage but you gain some power. (or so I'm told)

and I can't say I'm biased but against FF's as I drive a FF Slushbox (for now... untill I get my 86 Corolla , or my R32)

[LjasonL]

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

If by "Street Racing" you mean racing around streets in the dead of night with real live potholes and crappy road conditions then you better look at what you're running first.

Okay, I'm still with you...

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

If you're running turbo, you damn well better make sure you're running an AWD Grip Racer otherwise once you hit the drift (or you sling your ass around in a FWD using the ebrake) you're going to lose so much pressure off your turbo and you're gonna hit lag drifting around and ultimately your turbo means squat untill you hit the stretches. And if there's not many stretches you're gonna be SOL.

Now you lost me OKay hold on here... "AWD grip racer"... you realize an AWD can drift, and a 2wd can "grip", right? And FWD can drift too, they don't have to use the e brake. And since most "drifters", at least the RWD ones, keep the gas pedal to the floor throughout the entire corner, that would actually keep the turbo spooled up better. And please don't tell me you actually street race around corners?

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

If you're running a supercharger or NA tuning, either or is fine. RWD is a bit flashier and probably a little faster because of your power to weight ratio and a good drift means you lose very little on speed and you come around again with traction without losing power (as you would in a turbo)

A "good drift" is exactly what you don't want to do if you're racing. Drifting is slow!

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

But since most street racers these days use Turbos instead of NA then AWD will be the way to go, slap on a few more PSI's and you'll wipe out the competition.

"Slap on a few more PSI's" Gotta remember that one!

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

As for track driving, I would still say AWD. It seems the popular thing to do now with AWD is weld your rear diff. or sommat, it becomes more prone to weakening and damage but you gain some power. (or so I'm told)

The fastest road racers in the world are RWD. Weld the rear diff? Yeah, if you want your car to handle like soggy butthole. Ever hear an old Chevy truck or something turn a corner, and the tires go "screech screech screech" over and over and the back end hops up and down? That's what happens when you try to turn with a welded rear diff

Originally Posted by Mediocrity

and I can't say I'm biased but against FF's as I drive a FF Slushbox (for now... untill I get my 86 Corolla , or my R32)

Well I'm biased

AWD ownz you

[Neutrino]

Mediocrity that is so true....


like the other night me my byddies were out street racing and this kid show up...and he was like Yo and we were like wusup foo....and he is like cool homies....and we were like.....3g buys in...and he like...hey i don't have any cash but i'll race you fo slips...and we like cool


so we race....and he takes us off teh line since tah foo was AWD...but i boot up my laptop and hit stage 2 so i get mo boost and check AIM...we of course hit a corner so i pull teh ebrake and do one of them D1 takumi touge drifts and he goes forward and crashes since he welded his rear differential and could not turn

[AmericanEagle]

lol

[AmericanEagle]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

just j/k...yeah i was sarcastic...i was just trying to make a point....there seem to be a lot of people that thing AWD completelly dominates track racing and i was just trying to show that the fastest cars around a track namely f1 are RWD

Well, it's kinda hard to say if they are RWD because it's the best option or is it simply in the name of the sport not to change it. In other types of road racing you will see a mix of different technology, basically everyone has a spin on how to win. But with racing series that really make the big bucks, nascar, indycar, and F 1 they are strictly regulated and major changes are hard to come by. If you want proof look at NASCAR. How you can still call something stock car racing that doesn't have a stock car in it is beyond me

[Cbass]

The reason the fastest drag cars are RWD is because when you have a powerful car, when you launch, most of the weight comes off the front wheels. If you have enough power, the front wheels will come off the ground altogether. You can compensate in an AWD or FWD car with wheelie bars to force the front end down, and stiff rear suspension, but you're still going to get weak launches compared to a RWD car with good tires.

When it comes to handling, AWD as a rule of thumb is terrible. Easily 9 out of 10 AWD cars handles like a shopping cart with a broken wheel. You can plant the power a little better on the exit of the corner, but the tradeoff is a much lower cornering speed to start with, because of the understeer. Some cars, such as the LanEvo and the Skyline GTR compensate with various systems. The LanEvo has active yaw control, if I recall correctly, which helps eliminate the understeering characteristics by overpowering the inside rear wheel, and inducing a little oversteer. The Skyline isn't actually providing torque to the front wheels during cornering, so in effect, it's a RWD car during cornering. The 911 Turbo provides about 5% of it's torque to the front wheels, until it loses back traction. It still understeers. Why did Porsche switch the 911 Turbo to AWD? Three little numbers, 9-3-0. Well, make it six. 9-6-4. The original and second generation 911 turbos, respectively Very powerful, very twitchy, very prone to oversteer, both power and throttle off. Many people got killed or injured because they bought these cars without knowing how to drive them, and that's why Porsche switched to AWD, not for any performance gain. In fact, an AWD 993 Turbo is slower than an equivalently tuned 993 Carrera, on the track and on the street.

AWD has clear advantages in the snow, and for people who don't know how to control a RWD car. In the rain, AWD has a slight advantage off the line, but if you're street racing in the rain, you shouldn't have a license...

[AmericanEagle]

Originally Posted by Cbass

The reason the fastest drag cars are RWD is because when you have a powerful car, when you launch, most of the weight comes off the front wheels. If you have enough power, the front wheels will come off the ground altogether. You can compensate in an AWD or FWD car with wheelie bars to force the front end down, and stiff rear suspension, but you're still going to get weak launches compared to a RWD car with good tires.

AWD is for traction. Simply tire technology in top fuel drag racing has supersedes the need for an AWD system. Plus I don't know if they could even build a driveshaft to handle 6,000 hp. Besides that an AWD launch is anything but weak. 0 to 60 times for an AWD car is amazing compared to a rear wheeled counterpart. AWD holds it's own in drag racing, money is the reason why you don't see even more of it. Why spend the cash developing an AWD system when they have good results as is?

Originally Posted by Cbass

When it comes to handling, AWD as a rule of thumb is terrible. Easily 9 out of 10 AWD cars handles like a shopping cart with a broken wheel. You can plant the power a little better on the exit of the corner, but the tradeoff is a much lower cornering speed to start with, because of the understeer. Some cars, such as the LanEvo and the Skyline GTR compensate with various systems. The LanEvo has active yaw control, if I recall correctly, which helps eliminate the understeering characteristics by overpowering the inside rear wheel, and inducing a little oversteer. The Skyline isn't actually providing torque to the front wheels during cornering, so in effect, it's a RWD car during cornering. The 911 Turbo provides about 5% of it's torque to the front wheels, until it loses back traction. It still understeers. Why did Porsche switch the 911 Turbo to AWD? Three little numbers, 9-3-0. Well, make it six. 9-6-4. The original and second generation 911 turbos, respectively Very powerful, very twitchy, very prone to oversteer, both power and throttle off. Many people got killed or injured because they bought these cars without knowing how to drive them, and that's why Porsche switched to AWD, not for any performance gain. In fact, an AWD 993 Turbo is slower than an equivalently tuned 993 Carrera, on the track and on the street.

Understeer is just a design characteristic, regardless of setup your going to have physics playing a role. RWD can't grip like AWD. It's just a design characteristic. I think the end of your last quote put everything correct. Most companies don't deal with other "system" or car styles because there public may or may not like it. Could you imagine a FF drive mustang? Well. it was on the drawing board. Mustang people hated the idea. So they just scrapped the Mustang title and called it the Ford Probe. But in actuality for everyday people driving with there heads up there ass FF works out better.

I have and AWD car and the understeer is really not an issue to me. I mean i like the fact that i can come out a corner balls to walls and never chirp the rubber. And the school of racing says "slow in fast out" not "fast in fast out" You gotta slow down, the quicker you slow down for your turn the faster your on the gas for your exit. It's all about the exit speed.

The American EVO 8 does not have the yaw computer....so it must not be that critical, all the magazines says it's on rails. Matter of fact I have seen a few magazines out run Porsche cars on road tracks....humm.

Porsche does not make the fast car standard to me, they didn't have luck with an AWD system. Many other car makers do. But if you want to drop big names lets drop Lamborghini. They seem to have no problem making most of there cars AWD. They approach this decision car by car....some of the best lambo cars are 2wd and some AWD. They build cars for a purpose and they want the car to behave and feel exactly how they dream it up. Personally I love the new lambo, but my old favorite is the Diablo VTTT. Viscous Traction Twin Turbo, Twin T4 Garrett's and AWD. Who could ask for more.

Check out all the Lambo Cars below...even a lot of special non production cars

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/Cars/index.html

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

AWD is for traction. Simply tire technology in top fuel drag racing has supersedes the need for an AWD system. Plus I don't know if they could even build a driveshaft to handle 6,000 hp. Besides that an AWD launch is anything but weak. 0 to 60 times for an AWD car is amazing compared to a rear wheeled counterpart. AWD holds it's own in drag racing, money is the reason why you don't see even more of it. Why spend the cash developing an AWD system when they have good results as is?

What keeps AWD out of Top Fuel is durability issues, power-train loss, added weight, and sheer cost. This makes RWD FAR more ideal for drag racing that AWD in any case. Also AWD traction in the turns is minimal in dry conditions and much more apparent in wet conditions.

[Mediocrity]

blah blah blah blah blah.

Drifting in FF is about as effective as grip racing with a FR. You don't do it because it's not a good idea.

And well sure you can drift in an AWD, if you have a 10f/90r power distribution or other some such, but you do better just to avoid trying to drift in an AWD.

What keeps AWD out of Top Fuel is durability issues, power-train loss, added weight, and sheer cost. This makes RWD FAR more ideal for drag racing that AWD in any case. Also AWD traction in the turns is minimal in dry conditions and much more apparent in wet conditions.

It might keep AWD out of top fuel but in no way does it keep AWD out of dragging altogether. Jon Shepherd runs a 91 AWD Talon (stock body except for hood) and has recently run 8.7 in the quarter. Oh and he drives it to and from the strip.