Uneducated Actors

[Prelewd]

Just accept it guys, the US is the cause of most of the worlds problems. We go in with whatever intentions we have, and leave it worse than it was before. That's the new American way.

After we get all this great oil that we are supposedly fighting this war over, I don't think the US should try to help anybody anymore. To hell with em all, let's just do as the Swiss do.

[T4 Primera]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Just accept it guys, the US is the cause of most of the worlds problems. We go in with whatever intentions we have, and leave it worse than it was before. That's the new American way.

After we get all this great oil that we are supposedly fighting this war over, I don't think the US should try to help anybody anymore. To hell with em all, let's just do as the Swiss do.

If only.....j/k

[Prelewd]

Sorry, just a little venting the day prior. I'm just a little sick of arguing over the most mundane little details. This isn't a damn courtroom.

In response to the actual article, I do think it is sad that actors/actresses have all this influence, but little knowledge of the subject.. but once again, it's their right to open their mouth, no matter what comes out.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Just accept it guys, the US is the cause of most of the worlds problems. We go in with whatever intentions we have, and leave it worse than it was before. That's the new American way.

After we get all this great oil that we are supposedly fighting this war over, I don't think the US should try to help anybody anymore. To hell with em all, let's just do as the Swiss do.

[Prelewd]

Don't worry Yogs, just sarcasm.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Don't worry Yogs, just sarcasm.

Maybe it was,but I for one would much rather see a heavily armed Switzerland than a heavily armed America.I can't remember the last time the Swiss tried to manipulate the internal affairs of another country.

[Prelewd]

Originally posted by taranaki


Maybe it was,but I for one would much rather see a heavily armed Switzerland than a heavily armed America.I can't remember the last time the Swiss tried to manipulate the internal affairs of another country.

That's because the Swiss are rocks. They are neutral on everything form WWII to now. I heard they even have posts that rise on their roads near the borders to block cars from entering in case of neighboring conflict. I don't blame them though, they aren't constantly critisized...

[T4 Primera]

...and like a spectator, they look after wallets for them while they are slogging it out......now that is a peace loving people - no hidden agendas.

[tomlong]

I pulled some interesting info from amnesty internationals website about the treatment of their people by their government.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-IRQ

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-IRQ

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-IRQ

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...pen&of=ENG-IRQ

I also found this which talks about the Iraqi oil proceeds being put in a UN Trust fund to benefit the people of Iraq.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-09.htm

I know that our government is not perfect. I also know that the reason I support this war is because I believe Saddam is an evil tyrant and that he and all he believes in must be destroyed immediately. I like the majority of this country support the people of Iraq and hope that they can soon experience the freedom many of us take for granted. I am sorry the people of New Zealand and other countries do not feel the way I feel. Our news is definately not censored I see many things that bother me but that is war. I also believe that the Iraqis have killed more civilians in the last two weeks than we have.

This final article read carefully because this is one reason why we fight.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...28/91809.shtml

Again I am sorry you do not agree with us, but look around your country at all the people and families that wish to help others out. Well when I walk around I see the same thing. People criticize us because we are always the one to intervene. Maybe this is because of some hidden political agenda. Maybe because we are the only one strong enough to get the job done, and maybe we are the only ones who care. I would hope that the majority of our interventions are because we want to help others and we have the superior forces to do so.

[MattyG]

Wow good post tom, I especially found the last article interesting, although I do find it hard to believe the reasons implied by the article are among the reasons for the invasion, as it has been that way in Iraq for so long, and no one in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) cared before.

[T4 Primera]

Tomlong, when you find something that indicates Amnesty International's support for this invasion, please post the link. Otherwise do not presume to use the name of this organisation in support of the actions of the coalition. To quote amnesty international:

Amnesty International neither condemned nor supported the US-led military campaign in Afghanistan and our position is the same with respect to Iraq.

We ask that due consideration be given to exploring all diplomatic and judicial avenues.

The US has called for a "regime change" in Iraq. Amnesty International is not a political organization and does not support or oppose "regime change" in any part of the world.

The effects of UN sanctions on the Iraqi population have been documented by UN agencies, NGOs, journalists and academics. There is a general consensus that sanctions are significantly contributing to the humanitarian crisis in Iraq. Although access to food, medicines and other commodities has reportedly improved since 1998, the situation overall remains critical.

And do you know which countries governments were adamant that the sanctions remained while other countries were pushing to get them lifted? Try listing coalition members on one side and non coalition members on the other and it will be pretty damn close While your belief that the oppression of the people by Saddam Hussein should stop is a just and noble one, the actions of the US and UK governments prior to the war are not consistent with those beliefs.

[tomlong]

I was not using their name to support why the coalition forces are in Iraq. I was just introducing a completely non biased source of information as to why many americans support this war.

[T4 Primera]

Originally posted by tomlong
I was not using their name to support why the coalition forces are in Iraq. I was just introducing a completely non biased source of information as to why many americans support this war.

Read my previous post again, I've added to it - more non-biased views.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by MattyG
Wow good post tom, I especially found the last article interesting, although I do find it hard to believe the reasons implied by the article are among the reasons for the invasion, as it has been that way in Iraq for so long, and no one in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) cared before.

That was good post. Although nobody stepped in to stop what was going on in Iraq before doesn't mean that it should never happen. The vast majority screaming of people about the innocent civilians in this conflict were nowhere to be heard before now. Its incredible to hear the Arab nations speak out for the civilians being hurt, but they never said a damn thing when the Kurds were murdered. Or when Iranians were dieing by the bushells in the 80s. There is documented oppresion and murder all over the middle east against arabs by arabs. Not one peep out of them. To them its not a matter of innocent civillians getting killed - its which ones and by whom it matters. (not to all, but its a damn large piece of duplicity on their governments parts)

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by T4 Primera
And do you know which countries governments were adamant that the sanctions remained while other countries were pushing to get them lifted? Try listing coalition members on one side and non coalition members on the other and it will be pretty damn close While your belief that the oppression of the people by Saddam Hussein should stop is a just and noble one, the actions of the US and UK governments prior to the war are not consistent with those beliefs.

So what diplomatic tool would you use to force Saddam to disarm? If you don't want war and you don't want sanctions what do you have left? Don't say inspectors, they only work if your employing another form of action. The whole "oil for food" program was to help the Iraqi people, but of course Saddam kept what he wanted and left his people with little to nothing. For some reason a lot of people think that if sanctions were lifted that all would be just peachy keen and Saddam would turn into this nice and reasonable fellow.