Lower and upper intake manifold gasket, help!

[grandprixgtx00]

what is the saying again? oh yeah...if it aint broken dont fix it

[19jettadad97]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

Actually Tim (tblake) consults me quite often by PM messaging. Most of us regulars at this forum do that quite frequently and know one another. Plus he is one of our forum Advisors appointed by the Moderating staff.

I just hate to see him waste money when he has many other unresolved issues and the money would be best served by going to those issues. That is all.

I didn't realize it was Tim who asked the question about changing the water pump. I thought it was Unknown7 (the one who started the thread) I was just thinking of HIS inexperience with the mechanics so if he changed it now, while already in there, he wouldn't have to take it all apart again IF it failed in the near future. Plus IIRC his car has almost 200k on it.
I don't know anything about Tim's car. (My bad!!!)

[tblake]

No worries. I shouldn't have hijacked this thread. My Bad.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by tblake

No worries. I shouldn't have hijacked this thread. My Bad.

It is no big deal Tim. We're just one big happy family.

And just for our edification what is the final verdict?

[tblake]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

It is no big deal Tim. We're just one big happy family.

And just for our edification what is the final verdict?

Final Verdict? I think I'll leave the stock one for the time being. We all know my track record for aftermarket replacement parts. Besides I need to got the PS noise/strut mounts figured out, and as of 7am this morning, the GTP is in the body shop to have some "Minnesota Cancer" repaired before it spreads any farther.

I've never seen anything like it guys, I bought the car almost 3 years ago with 70,000 miles on it. It actually came from kansas and didnt have a spec of rust on it or under it. 3 Years later being drive through 3 Minnesota winters, Its started to cancer out above the passenger rear wheel well. Not to mention the supbrame, my calipers, and rotors are all that ugly rust color.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by tblake

Final Verdict? I think I'll leave the stock one for the time being. We all know my track record for aftermarket replacement parts. Besides I need to got the PS noise/strut mounts figured out, and as of 7am this morning, the GTP is in the body shop to have some "Minnesota Cancer" repaired before it spreads any farther.

Good decision for now Tim. Yeah it is sad on the rust situation. Was this vehicle ever in an accident? It doesn't make any difference where you live but rust is common on the brake components. We get it down here. You can paint the calipers and bracket. On the rotors check this out. Raybestos Advanced Technology. They come with black protective coating in the vane area and on the part that goes on the hub. I got a set of 4 for my Regal GS along with Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads. It is time for new brakes. Good cost too. BTW - Brakes being replaced are the original GM. Over 70K miles.



Raybestos AT Rear Rotor

[tblake]

BOB, I CANT BELEIVE IT!

I was going to do my breaks again this summer becuase of a slight pulsation and heavy rust on the rotors. I was just going to ask if there where any brands of rotors that come like the one you have pictured above.

You just saved me a question....

Are they spendy? I was thinking about painting my calipers at the same time (black or silver).

[wlkjr]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

It is up to you Tim. It is your car. I do not replace parts just for the hell of it unless I see an obvious issue with it or proven bad. Bad waterpumps give off a noise or leak so if none of the above why replace it? Unless it is broken why fix it? Under that theory why not just replace everything?

BTW - All my GM cars still have the original water pumps so I do not see the component as a high failure item. How old is my GTP waterpump? Almost 12 years old now? You see what I am getting at.

Mine has been replaced twice. On parts that are inexpensive, I will replace if it requires more than a couple hours work if I had to otherwise repair it. I figure it should prolong the time and save me aggravation.

[tblake]

IThe 3800 waterpump isnt in such a bad spot. I have seen a lot worse (OHC motors where the pump is driven off the timing belt). But it sure isnt as easy to access as the 3100. (GM did get something right on that motor) I shouldn't be so cruel.

[doctorhrdware]

When I did my water pump on my 3800 GP it took me 2 days to get it back together. Was having a lot of trouble getting the power steering mounting screw back in. Beside my hands are big so I skin my knuckles all the time.

[wlkjr]

Originally Posted by doctorhrdware

When I did my water pump on my 3800 GP it took me 2 days to get it back together. Was having a lot of trouble getting the power steering mounting screw back in. Beside my hands are big so I skin my knuckles all the time.

I figured out how to do it after I had taken the power steering pump off. Take one bolt out and loosen the other and let the pump shift over. That was my biggest problem when I did mine.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by tblake

You just saved me a question....

Are they spendy? I was thinking about painting my calipers at the same time (black or silver).

No Tim. $46 for the front and $42 for the rear.



Back to the subject of water pumps. On some of these replies it goes to show you that some people are their own problem when doing DIY work. I wonder how many actually torqued the pump down correctly as I mentioned in my prior replies.

When you have a water pump failure obviously you replace it and I have no issues with that. Replacing known good parts capriciously and arbitrarily is what I do not agree with. If we were to accept and apply that theory as good maintenance practice then we are all in trouble or time to sell it or trade it in. That is all I have to say. The rest of you can continue to ramble on.

[richtazz]

Just to clarify, when I mentioned replacing the water pump, I assumed Tim inspected it and it was questionable. I do agree with Bob that you don't just change parts if there is no evidence to support doing so.

That being said, I have seen twice where a water pump with just a couple of thousandths free play on the pulley that wasn't leaking or making noise failed immediately after a UIM job, probably due to it being the weak link in a now sealed and properly pressurized cooling system. That is why I originally suggested changing it.

[The Unknown 7]

sorry this an old post, but I finally got to doing the job, the gaskets were indeed shot, and I almost lost a socket in the air intake, but almost everything went well. however when I start the car, it has a really lumpy idle like it jerks the car. It seems like a misfire, and I'm 99.9% positive I hooked the spark plugs right. however I ended up losing some egr/evap hoses. could that cause it? Any body have any suggestions?

[BNaylor]

Losing hoses? You mean broken or missing? That could cause a vacuum leak which could cause a poor idle and other issues. Get 'em replaced as soon as possible.


And double check the ignition wires and make sure they go to the right cylinders from the coils.

Firing order SII 3800 engine:
1-6-5-4-3-2

Front bank, left to right 1, 3, 5
Rear bank, left to right 2, 4, 6.

Coils:
top coil: 6/3
Middle coil: 2/5
Bottom coil: 4/1