first time project, no experience

[daveshapellSVT]

not only that but the 350 will be more reliable then some strung out 305 ready to pop... hands down do the 350 swap. we'll help you through it with any questions you may have.

[Morley]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

Perhaps you missed my statement about not reading magazines.

Perhaps you should have read their article. CC isn't about building all out money-no-object cars & engines. They are more about what the average Joe can and does build and within a set budget....Who cares? Me for one. I don't have an unlimited budget and I don't know anyone who does.

[MrPbody]

Morely,

I understand your point, but magazines are supported mostly by their advertisers, not their readers. After 30 years of building engines for real people and real cars, I'm fully aware of budget constraints and various "levels" of builds. It has been my experience, magazines rarely have (or use) current information and rarely use anythig NOT "mainstream", while racers and streeters are always trying to "press the edge", even when the budget restricts them to a certain level.

Again, just because a writer says "that's all there is" or "it can't be done", doesn't mean it's so. We've had one recently, where another shop told one of our our customers flatly, "You can't get more than 270 CFM from that casting no matter HOW you try." This is a shop that is regularly featured in High Performance Pontiac Magazine. We routinely ship that same casting out at 285. This is the same mentality that honestly believes CNC porting makes more power than "hand" porting, and it just "taint so"!

I'm not saying YOU'RE wrong, I'm saying there is more to it than you may understand. LOTS of good engine guys ot there beating up on the "big names" every week. You never heard of them, and probably never will. That doesn't deminish their skills.

Jim

[daveshapellSVT]

ewrock- what are you thinking so far given whats been said?

[89IROC&RS]

an engine swap is hardley something i would recomend as a first step for someone looking to learn how to wrench on cars.

and for the record, modifying a 305 from stock is NOT a waist of money. its a stepping stone.

even if he decides to upgrade to a 350, any money he invested in his 305, from headers, to an aftermarket ignition system, to a windage tray oil pan, to a K&N air filter, is going to transfer directly to a 350 in the future. exactly where is the waist in money there???

someone just learning to spin wrenches shouldnt bite off more than they can chew. small steps, working up to bigger things, getting familiar with the car they have, is far more valuable than just "throw a bigger motor in it".

and no, the 350 is not always a better option than the 305, but it does hold the edge in higher rpm operation because the bigger bore allows larger valves and less shrouding. but by the same logic, you could suggest that everyone just run a 400 block because its obviously far superior to the 350 block.

crate motors are the easy way out. run what cha brung, and be proud of it

[daveshapellSVT]

In order to make any kind of power out of that 305 he's gonna need to get into the engine. he's gonna need better heads, better intake and a bigger cam. without those any bolt ons aren't gonna do crap unfortunately. And if he buys headers for the 305 they can possibly switch over but with a 350 he may wanna go with bigger piping. I mean if he wants to spend couple grand on bolt ons to gain 10-20hp then thats his deal. To me going from 17.8 down to a 16.5 after spending 2 grand is stupid. There comes a point where you just gotta realize it's a complete waste of time and money. maybe a different 305 in a different car can do better. Best 305 car i can think of would be a 90 formula t5. lighter body, better 305 with fuel injection and a better tranny not too mention better gearing. Starting with a 2nd gen, known to be heavy, and a 145hp 305 is a dead end. It will be hard just to squeeze 200hp out of the thing... swap for a 350 it's the only way.

"run what cha brung, and be proud of it"..

Thats ok in some cases, but not when you have something this guttless. how can you be proud of a car that is so slow and has no potential. be like driving your grandmothers 78 caprice wagon to the track. You'd look like a fool. Only thing his car has going for it is the fact that it's a camaro. Do the name justice and drop in a better motor.

[Morley]

An engine swap in a 3rd gen is a snap. I had mine out in around 5 hours, that includes unhooking everyhting from wires to exhaust to torque arm and driveshaft (took engine & trans out together).
If it is a TPI engine then there's a ton less wiring and vacuum hoses to contend with, unlike a carbed engine.
I'd have to say that the TPI engine swap (305-350) is about the easiest I've ever done. The new engine went in and was hooked up in about 6 hours and was running by the 8th hour.
SOME boltons would be swapped from the 305 to the 350...headers are questionable. The 1 5/8" primaries used for 305's would become restrictive in a well built 350, conversely the 1 3/4" primaries used for most 350's would be too large for the 305 and would hurt performance.
A 52mm throttlebody on a 305 is a waste of money too, there is no way that 305 is ever going to need/use that much air, and again it could actually hurt performance by slowing the incoming air.
The stock HEI ignition system is more than enough for a 305 and even for most 350's. If you want to upgrade in this area, get a set of Accel (or other brand) sprial core wires. They give better transfer of energy to the plug. Also you might want to get rid of the stock type bakelite cap and rotor and put in an Alkyd plastic set with copper terminals (Accel, Moroso, Taylor, etc). This will really perk up the ignition system.
K&N filters, while a good investment, aren't going to give you a performance gain (ok maybe .5 hp).
The 2 things I would recommend would be a good 3" cat-back system and maybe a cold air induction, unless it is the Camaro's TPI inlet. For the Camaro inlet you just need to remove the baffles that sit under the 2 filters.
Until you go for a 350 it is best to stay away from things like siameased runners, larger intake or larger throttle body. While all of these items seem like they would do you some good, pretty much the opposite is true. Larger openings mated to the smaller valved heads of the 305 would just cause the air velocity to drop and possibly cause stagnation which means the cylinders won't be getting a full air charge.
If you want to do some good in the intake area, pull it apart and port match all of the pieces and look in the passages for any flashing or other obstructions and grind them down (dremmel tool).
With all of these small, simple "mods" you could gain 10-15 HP on a well tuned 305. This will give you some experiance with engines and tools, won't be a big investment in parts and will give you the satisfaction of having done the work yourself.

[daveshapellSVT]

he's got a second gen though. and it's already carbed. dropping in a 350 is sooo very easy. i mean if you wanted to you could just swap blocks and use the 305 heads. some backyard gear heads actually throw 305 heads on to raise compression. it's a dirt cheap mod that gives a little power. So really you could get away with just a the short block. Carb engines are twice as easy to swap then fuel injected engines. theres no wire harness,injectors, sencors, yata yata. in fact in my engine bay all i have are these:

motor
kickdown cable and throttle
wire to alternator
wire to starter
few wires going to firewall for interior stuff
two vacuum lines

it doesn't get more simple then that. if he just swaps the block he can easily do this in 4hrs. very very simple. do the swap man it's worth it and you will not regret it. other wise your gonna have to shell out mega bucks to make any power.

[Morley]

Sorry, I thought it was a 3rd gen for some reason. A 78 is going to have the mass of vacuum hoses in and around the carb. When I went to rebuild the carb on my 79 T/A I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how I was going to remember where all of those hoses went. I finally came up with the idea to take testors model paints and paint the end of the hose and the barb it came from the same color, swithcing colors for each hose (took a lot of different colors)
I have to say that I'd rather change the engine in my 85 IROC than the one in the 79 T/A. I put headers on that car and it was a daunting task to say the least.
The heads on his 78 305 are going to be some of the worst castings GM made (next to the swirl port ones) and I wouldn't bother putting them on a 350.
I would look around in auto trader or the like and see if I could pick up a complete 350 for a good price.

[daveshapellSVT]

good place to look for engines is craigslist. i always see 350's on there. I actually sold my L98 off thirdgen.org for 250 bucks.. The engine thats in my formula now i bought for 500 bucks rebuilt, so i'm sure you can find a 60k engine for 400 or a little less. Yea i bet the heads on his motor now are really bad, and getting some different heads wouldn't cost very much.. You can piece together a pretty decent motor just using factory parts. i actually wish i kept my l98 heads cause they flowed better and would have raised my compression.

LT1 265-285hp: http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/641783867.html
350 complete: http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/641266132.html
350: http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/612977367.html
350: http://rochester.craigslist.org/pts/594536718.html

these were in my area, but theres good deals out there for cheap. You know what it would take to get 275hp out of that 305. a lot more then 600 bucks.