Turkey

[taranaki]

Originally posted by 1985_BMW318i
Its because he cannot prove what he's saying. He believes everything he's seen in his local schoolboy newspaper. I myself have been out on the front against tyrants. Saddam for one. Why others from countries other then the US choose to tell us how to think is beyond me. They go by their highly biased news and do not have the true facts. Time will prove that once again the US will be the one who came to a peoples rescue. Excuse me, I meant to say the US and our Allies because after the fact we'll have alot of Allies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again

It's amazing how many vets we have in this forum.Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the U.S. media may be the one that is biased?Most of the rest of the world favours a U.N.-brokered solution,even the last real ally of the U.S.,Britain is now backing out towards that viewpoint.


If Bush persists in his determined effort to breach international law,he will go down in history as a bad and dangerous leader.Hope he gets voted out at the next election he doesn't seem to have any idea how to conduct negotiations with other world leaders.

Oh,and by the way,spare us the deluded crap about how the U.S. is so kind and benevolent in rebuilding countries after wars....historically ,the U.S. has ALWAYS turned up late to defend its European allies.If the U.S. had had a little more backbone in supporting its friends(other than Isreal,Uncle Sam's favorite terrorists),it wouldn't have been neccesary to rebuild Europe.

[Darth Cypher]

This "deluded crap" happens to be fact. Look at Japan and Germany. Japan is a VERY successful nation. Germany's status is up there to veto our actions. Afganistan is looking better already.

I do not like how we were late for the wars but we were isolationist in the past. We woke up and realized that if we don't take our role in the international scene, it will find it's way onto our turf. Yes, even though we took part in world affairs since then we still got Sept. 11. But damned if you do, damned if you don't. How do you want to check out? On your feet or on your knees?

And after WW2, we basically swore that never again will another Hitler rise up. Do you all see why the US is very much like a "bully" sometimes? Yeah, we are not perfect but can I ask an honest question? Does it occur to anyone that perhaps, even by chance, that the US actually does do the right thing once in a while?

And our allies are pretty thankless it seems. France comes to mind. Did any of you a know that when we were liberating France, several times did they turn our troops over to the Germans? That's gratitude for you. You want my source? My grandfather is a WW2 vet. And I will take his word over any media source. Soldiers are "getting thier hands dirty", not so much the reporters. Though there are exeptions.

And calling Israel terrorists?! Isn't that a little.....anti-sematic? How are they terrorists when they are the ones that have to endure suicide bombings on a daily basis? I don't get that. And yeah, we support them heavily. They only have every Arab nation out to wipe them off the face of the Earth.

[Cbass]

Originally posted by 1985_BMW318i
Its because he cannot prove what he's saying. He believes everything he's seen in his local schoolboy newspaper. I myself have been out on the front against tyrants. Saddam for one. Why others from countries other then the US choose to tell us how to think is beyond me. They go by their highly biased news and do not have the true facts. Time will prove that once again the US will be the one who came to a peoples rescue. Excuse me, I meant to say the US and our Allies because after the fact we'll have alot of Allies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again

Actually, I back up my statements, and I certainly don't draw them from a limited number of sources.

Nobody is telling you how to think, unless you take into account a massive media system that influences your mind every day, a massive propaganda machine that tells you what to think and believe, but I guess you're fine with those because they're in the US, right?

So I am to suppose that the entire world has some ridiculous bias against the US, based not on the actions the US has been taking, but upon some deep intrinsic dislike of the US? That's ridiculous.

[Cbass]

Originally posted by Darth Cypher
This "deluded crap" happens to be fact. Look at Japan and Germany. Japan is a VERY successful nation. Germany's status is up there to veto our actions. Afganistan is looking better already.

Japan is economically dependent on the US. Germany was politically and economically dependent on the US, until of all people, the French helped them regain their own political and economic means, through trade.

Originally posted by Darth Cypher

I do not like how we were late for the wars but we were isolationist in the past. We woke up and realized that if we don't take our role in the international scene, it will find it's way onto our turf. Yes, even though
we took part in world affairs since then we still got Sept. 11. But damned if you do, damned if you don't. How do you want to check out? On your feet or on your knees?

It's because of the US "taking a role in the international scene" that 9/11 happened. You can't solve the problem by going around and fighting terrorists, you have to eliminate the root cause. The US does BAD things around the world, and you're finally seeing some repercussions.

Originally posted by Darth Cypher

And after WW2, we basically swore that never again will another Hitler rise up. Do you all see why the US is very much like a "bully" sometimes? Yeah, we are not perfect but can I ask an honest question? Does it occur to anyone that perhaps, even by chance, that the US actually does do the right thing once in a while?

The US always does the right thing. The right thing for US foreign interests. Sometimes that coincides with what our morale judgement of what the right thing is, often it doesn't. The problem is, I think you're seeing another Hitler rise up, and you're too busy cheering Alles Für Deutschland to see it.

Originally posted by Darth Cypher

And our allies are pretty thankless it seems. France comes to mind. Did any of you a know that when we were liberating France, several times did they turn our troops over to the Germans? That's gratitude for you. You want my source? My grandfather is a WW2 vet. And I will take his word over any media source. Soldiers are "getting thier hands dirty", not so much the reporters. Though there are exeptions.

4 years before D day, the Vichy government of France was empowered. This was the legitimate government, overseeing French policies and activities. It was put in place by the Germans, who were "rebuilding" France after the offensive of 1940. Just like how the US "rebuilt" Germany and France, in their own interests and image.
I respect your grandfather for fighting when he had to, but don't you think that the viewpoint of a soldier is somewhat limited to what he hears, and sees? It's not likely you're going to hear the other side of whats happening if you're enforcing the beliefs of your own side through military force.
[/b][/quote]

Originally posted by Darth Cypher

And calling Israel terrorists?! Isn't that a little.....anti-sematic? How are they terrorists when they are the ones that have to endure suicide bombings on a daily basis? I don't get that. And yeah, we support them heavily. They only have every Arab nation out to wipe them off the face of the Earth.

No, and that's one of the biggest problems surrounding Israel today. If you criticize the apartheid regime they run, in which only 1/5th of their Palestinian majority can vote, you are an antisemite.

In case you haven't noticed, the suicide bombings are the only way the Palestinians have to fight back against the Israelis. Hey, terror won Israel independence, why shouldn't it work for Palestine?

http://www.nerdcities.com/guardian/P...-terrorism.htm

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Darth Cypher


And after WW2, we basically swore that never again will another Hitler rise up. .

Some would argue that's exactly what George Bush is in danger of becoming.He has a bizarre notion that the rest of the world should conform to his vision of Utopia,at the point of a gun if neccesary.There is no satisfactory evidence that the Iraqi government is directly involved in any terrorist activities,if Bush had any genuine evidence,the U.N. WOULD back him all the way.The setting of a deadline by the U.S. confirms that they intend to attack regardless of world opinion ,and regardless of the fact that Iraq as a nation poses no immediate threat to any U.S. territory or citizens.The consequenses will be far-reaching and long term.Expect more terrorist activity on U.S. soil,and realise that George Bush will be wholly responsible for the civilian casualties that it causes.The man is a fool.

[Darth Cypher]

France? Give me a break, we trade more with Japan than they do. Hell, Japan owns American soil.

Yes, Sept. 11 happened because we took part in world affairs. Pearl Harbor because we didn't. You missed my point. If we are going to have attacks on us no matter what we do, then we will have it more on our terms.

Yes, the US does bad things too. But nobody else does? France's resistance to our goal in the Middle East can be viewed as sticking up for the Arabs, can it not? Well, some terrorist faction showed their thanks by bombing one of thier oil tankers off the coast of Yemen. These people hate us for what we are.

So because I am seeing someone who is taking the fight to the enemies (notice we didn't do anything until we were attacked) that makes me no better than when the Germans cheered for Hitler? Another Hitler is not rising up. The argument is ridiculous. I could say how clinton or liberals in general (in the US) are like tyrants and want to undermine what the US stands for. Anything can be twisted to fit anything.

If I am too busy cheering "Alles Für Deutschland" to see the "hitler" in my own country. Then maybe you are too busy shouting "bad, evil USA" to see how we actually help this world turn. Letting these problems in the world fester is not going to make them go away. Sweeping things under the rug doesn't make them go away. They get worse.

So this "legitimate government" that was set up in France, aka a puppet government of Germany. So the French in all thier "guts and glory" let this happen. So much for the "Viva la France" or whatever b.s. they spouted. If they like to be ruled by another country vs. helping another that is trying to liberate it from thier attackers to restore it to what is was before, well fine. Only thing we can count on France for is a knife in the back anyhow.

I am not getting into how the Israeli government is run. It's thier problem. But I suppose that still makes me an anti-semite. Sure, ok, whatever. Besides, we could go on and on about to who the land rightfully belongs to. And religion will be brought into it, and not everybody follows one. Besides, the Palestinians have a military, they are capable of carrying out a more honorable form of combat.

And thier problem is not only the Palestinians. It's the other Arabs out there who don't like thier religion or whatever. Besides, Israel got some of thier lands as spoils of a war too in which the Arabs lost (who were the instigators by the way). Besides, aren't Palestinians refugees from Arab nations that don't want them anyhow?