It's time! Forshizzle!

[-The Stig-]

Originally posted by Cbass
Yeah, chevy parts are usually cheaper, but not by much when you're dealing with 5.0 parts.

And for the record, Fords can make just as much power from the same displacement and gas that Chebbies or Dodges can

Well No duh the 302 can make more power than the 305. The 305 is like worlds worst V8 ever... it cant flow for a damn. The Ford 302 at least is bread to make power. The 305 was a means to an end of the gas hog V8s... it still sucked gas though.


Yes we know Ford motors can make power... but it [i]is[/is] cheaper to buy the bigger Chevy motors that make more power.

For Example...

You can buy a Ford 393cid Stroker from a 351W
465hp@6000 466tq@4500
Comp. Ratio 10.3:1
Cost $3995
Dollar Per Horsepower $8.5:1hp

Chevy 383cid Stroker from a 350
538hp@6500rpm
495tq@5000rpm
Comp. Ratio 11:1
Cost $4050
Dollar Per Horsepower $7.5:1hp

Now... there isn't much difference true in the price... but thats the closest comparison between two strokers that i'm willing to devote my time to looking for at the moment hahaha. Both are great buys if you're in the market but the Chevy makes the better Oomph for your dollar... and if you are in the market here are each motors specs...

Ford 393cid Stroker
Chevy 383cid Stroker


For fairness I'll throw in a Mopar Stroker...

Mopar 408cid Stroker from a 360
400hp@5000rpm
452tq@3000rpm
Comp. Ratio 9.9:1
Cost $5237
Dollar Per Horsepower $13:1hp

And thus proves my point that Mopars are just too expensive. But notice the Comp. Ratio is down a tad. Up the CR and up the Output...
Mopar 408cid Stroker

[Cbass]

Those would be individual builds though, with that kind of compression, the Ford could be making 500+ hp too...

It's just as easy to build a 500hp Ford as it is to build a 500hp Chevy, but the Chevy will be marginally cheaper. Mind you, once you get into H beam rods, high end aluminum heads and roller valvetrain, it's not much of a price difference at all, maybe $500 on the entire build.

And you can still get at the dizzy on teh Ford

[-The Stig-]

But if you'd rather compare the Ford 302 price to a Chevy 350... then shall we?


First comparison will be Stock for Stock. Yes, a tad unfair but a base region of power is needed.

Ford 302 GT-40 Iron Head Long Block
270hp
9.0:1
$2595

Chevy 350 Vortec Iron Head Long Block
330hp
9.1:1
$2222

Now the Fun motors!

Ford 302 GT-40 Aluminum Head Long Block
340hp
9.0:1
$3099

Ford 302 GT-40 Aluminum Head Long Block
345hp
9.0:1
$2995

Chevy 350 Vortec Iron Head Complete Motor
330hp
9.1:1
$3349

Chevy 350 ZZ4 Aluminum Head Complete Motor
355hp
10.0:1
$3599


Yet another comparison...

Ford 351 Aluminum Head Complete Motor
385hp/377tq
9.0:1
$5295

Chevy 385 Aluminum Head Long Block
385hp/385tq
9.6:1
$4200

[DemonZX]

*anurism occuring* Well, I was looking at the whole pakage...Like installment ease, and so forth. If the 5.0 bolts right in place & is fuel injected...5.0 all the way! If I wanted to go chevy, and save the money, I would spen the extra $ on getting it to fit in the car..and everything flowing right. Plus, it would be nice to say, "yeah, I have a TT5.0 in my 2500 lbs. car...oh yeah thats with driver + gas!...CLick!"

Oh, yeah not to disrupt you guy's argument...but...none of my recent questions were answered??? j/k
.
.
.
I still want the answers though!

[DemonZX]

What would be a sain level of boost to run....for lets say....450-500hp? Plus could you give me maybe 2 or 3 more cars to search for?...Please...thanks bro....CLick!

[Cbass]

Good specific examples Redneck, but some of us build our own engines Chevies are cheaper, yes, but Fords will make just as much power, and often even more power. Depends on the engine. For $2500 I can build a 400M based engine that make 430hp, 520 lbft, and have lots more potential for stroking (read: another 64 ci).


DemonZX, the level of boost you run depends on a few things, how much your turbocharger flows, how much the cylinder heads flow, and what your static compression is. We'll just assume you're running on premium, so that's the biggest issue cleared up . We'll also assume you have a good set of heads that would do a NA motor proud, so there is lots of flow.

You COULD build the engine with 7:1, and 15 psi boost, and with would make a lot of power, but there would be noticeable turbo lag, the power wouldn't be linear at all.

Or, you could build the engine with 9:1 compression, and 8 PSI of boost on pump gas, which would allow you to run higher boost at the strip on race gas. The power would be there from 2000rpm, lots of it. Peak torque at 2500rpm, all the way through 4500rpm, and peak hp at around 5500. It would pull like crazy no matter what the engine speed

The low compression engine would make more hp, but it wouldn't have as much low end torque, and it would have turbo lag.

As for the T3... Well, lots of cars had them, but most only used the T3 for a few years, often opting for cheaper IHI turbos. Here is a great Yahoo group, they can give you more info on what to look for than I can

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/jyturbo/

[DemonZX]

Yeah, I would opt for the lower boost. I like a lot of power, and I like it right away! Thanks guy's for all the help, you don't know how much I appriciatit all!

Crap CBass I could have you build my engine, and I will pay for shipping. What would it run me?

5.0 block
heads
larger injectors
cam
turbos

and what ever, little crap, else=?$?

[-The Stig-]

Originally posted by Cbass
Good specific examples Redneck, but some of us build our own engines Chevies are cheaper, yes, but Fords will make just as much power, and often even more power. Depends on the engine. For $2500 I can build a 400M based engine that make 430hp, 520 lbft, and have lots more potential for stroking (read: another 64 ci).

Whats that supposed to mean Mr. Cbass?

I was giving a general annalysis on both Manufacture's motors...


Not J-Yard Specials... of course J-Yard Motors are dirt cheap. Thats the reason why they're in the J-Yard! hahah.

I personally think the best J-Yard motor build up is to pull a Chevy 454 or Ford 460 out of a fullsize truck, Rebuild it from the ground up... go .010, take the Crank .010 over to match. Port the heads, bigger cam, and slap on a 6-71 Supercharger and make an easy 600hp on Pump gas.

All told it should cost about $4000 including the 6-71. Now thats a J-Yard Special!

I've got that motor build up in a magazine someplace... i'll try to locate it. Obviously its magazine article so it shows you how to do everything and how much the crap costs. Very neato piece of literature!

[fatninja19]

Yay! I'm glad that you're going with the TT5.0 idea... Wait.. Are you going single turbo or twins???


I also urge you greatly not to limit this car to a strip only car... I bet it would make a hell of a highway racer. er... Wait.. how are the aerodynamics on that thing? And dont forget BRAKES! And where are the suspension recomendations?

I also vote(if there is a vote) for you to go with lower compression and higher boost. I doubt you'll need all that torque in such a light ass car. Don't forget about all the accesories that are required to run a turbo'ed engine. i.e. wastegate, bov, oil lines, etc.

[Cbass]

I'd advise starting with a naturally aspirated 5.0 and T5 to start with, it's still a lot of power in a little car, and then later turbocharge it, once the suspension and brakes are sorted out.

I would recommend the following

Junkyard 5.0 HO and T5 out of any 5.0 HO car (mustang, t-bird, LTD, licoln etc...).

Rebuild with 10:1 forged pistons, full roller heads and cam with stainless valves...

Shorty headers and dual exhaust

Swap kit from Grannies(jury out on this, some V8 RX7 people have had bad experiences with his kit)...

That would be good for 350hp with a mild cam, very streetable, and the 5 speed wouldn't be able to take much more. GSL brakes would be good at that point, but not much further. Get a full autoX suspension kit from Ground Control, and you're ready to go. You'll probably want to get a widebody kit at this point, and new wheels and tires. This would be a perfect time to upgrade to hubs from a Turbo II, and take it's brakes. I'm not entirely clear on how much work that is, and you might need to have suspension arms fabricated. In any case, you'd be able to do IRS at that point too.

I'm going to have a crack at doing my own IRS setup on the '81 RX7, as soon as I have a welder, and I'm not broke. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't work perfectly.

Now the turbocharging is not to be taken lightly. The T5 will not hold up to the power, neither will the stock rods, crank, or axle. You're going to need to replace a lot of things, and it will be expensive as hell. That's one of those "down the road when I have lots of money" things

[Cbass]

Originally posted by RedNeck383


Whats that supposed to mean Mr. Cbass?

I was giving a general annalysis on both Manufacture's motors...

I'm just fuckin around :hehehe:

Originally posted by RedNeck383

Not Junk-Yard Specials... of course J-Yard Motors are dirt cheap. Thats the reason why they're in the J-Yard! hahah.

I personally think the best J-Yard motor build up is to pull a Chevy 454 or Ford 460 out of a fullsize truck, Rebuild it from the ground up... go .010, take the Crank .010 over to match. Port the heads, bigger cam, and slap on a 6-71 Supercharger and make an easy 600hp on Pump gas.

All told it should cost about $4000 including the 6-71. Now thats a J-Yard Special!

I've got that motor build up in a magazine someplace... i'll try to locate it. Obviously its magazine article so it shows you how to do everything and how much the crap costs. Very neato piece of literature!

Sounds like a good build, but like you said earlier, big blocks are EXPENSIVE, and they don't fit too well into little cars... Actually, I've seen a few big block RX7s running around, they're quite fast.

I'll look for my 400M buildup.. This engine has lots of potential, if you get a steel crank, you can stroke the thing out to 460ci, you can get cleveland heads that flow more than most big blocks need. For $2800 AUS, which is around $1400 USD I think, you can get assembled aluminum heads...

[fatninja19]

Whats your initial budget, Demon?

[DemonZX]

I found a car for $700. Pretty much engine shot, body is in good shape, all crap like radio and stuff is pulled out. Perfect for this build! I will when I get my tax return back have about $2500. Then you know I get paid every two weeks, and I will, I hope, win a gang of money on my cruise. So when time comes round to get to business $4500-$5000.

[Cbass]

Well, I would advise the 5.0/T5 swap from a 5.0 Mustang, it would probably run you $1000-$2000 depending on the yard, and whether you have to pull it yourself.

Just do a few mild things, have the heads rebuilt and ported, get a street cam, a Cobra or GT40 intake, and good headers. You'll have to do custom exhaust anyways... The stock Mazda differential will hold up under this, and so will the T5 tranny.

That's still 300hp in a 2400 lb car, and you're going to have more power than traction to put it down Assuming you can hook up well, 12s shouldn't be a problem

[Cbass]

The big issue with the RX7 V8 swap, IMO is the insufficient space for tires. Apparently one guy has managed to get a 275/16 in his stock rear wheel well, but I'm not sure what he had to do to get that in there. I'd advise a good widebody kit, since it'll drop some weight too.

These are just bolt on flares, the cheapest and easiest way to go.




These are some very high quality race bodies, and are signifigantly lighter than the stock sheet metal. I'm probably going to go with the GT3 kit, when I get to that point.

http://www.mariahmotorsports.com/ext...ngbodypkgs.htm