Efficiency Modifications

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by mrgamma

Look... I tried to keep my references to a strictly non-commerical source... All of the previous sources were from .edu's and if your going to tell me that the person from stanford was making everything up as well as the chemistry professor http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr/ then keep kidding yourself...

http://www.dunntire.com/Services/Nitrogen/

Why not call up Dunn Tires and tell them they are lying?

Why should I take you seriously... Who are you??? Obviously all of these people are lying... It's a big conspiracy... Please tell me more about your in depth knowledge about aerodynamics...

EDIT: I just read your profile... your a 19 year old with a 1992 Honda accord... You must know what your talking about...

The reason there are no good references supporting nitrogen in tyres, is that noone without a commercial interest and any clue on the subject will put their name to snake oil (or is that "snake air")?

Here's a link to qualified engineers (like myself) discussing the topic with a few non engineers who snuck in.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=120996&page=1

[mrgamma]

Originally Posted by KiwiBacon

The reason there are no good references supporting nitrogen in tyres, is that noone without a commercial interest and any clue on the subject will put their name to snake oil (or is that "snake air")?

That's just not true... I have given you two very good references which are outside of a commercial nature... Here are specific studies which document the effects of nitrogen in tires...

http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/Nitrogen%20Tire%20Inflation%20for%20the%20Big%20Rigs.pdf

http://www.nitrogentiremachine.com/E...n%20purity.htm

http://www.retread.org/PDF/nitronews.pdf

These people who have published these articles have a commercial interest in saving money and optimizing the performance of thier vehicles. There seems to be a huge degree of resistance to this PROVEN performance enhancement... I am having a real hard time understanding why, especially when there are hundreds if not thousands of people backing the benefits of Nitrogen. I have searched the internet all day now it seems and I have yet to find one study which disproves the performance enhancements of Nitrogen in your Tires. I have found nothing but positive reports baosting the benefits...

It must be a conspiracy!! That's it... Everyone is lying! The scientists, NASA, the military, NASCAR, every frigging automotive center on the planet...

Okay... I apologize for my sarcasm... But until you can provide me with anywhere near as much proof as I have just provided you... then there is no argument...

It's obvious that Nitrogen will improve the performance and life of your tires...

BTW... That third article is a report from a not-for-profit organization... Do I need to raise Earnhardt from the grave and get him to endorse it to you guys or is this proof enough for you?

[2.2 Straight six]

Ok, this thread is about increasing the efficency of your car, it's not a discussion about wether filling your tyres with nitrogen is beneficial or not.

the arguing over this whole nitrogen thing ends now or i'm going to lock this thread.

i trust that's understood.

EDIT - if you want to continue the nitrogen debate, by all means start a new thread, so long as you don't argue. I think we've all hard enough of it in this thread.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

how would a spoiler help fuel economy? it creates drag and if it creates downforce it's increasing the rolling resistance of the tires.

There was a very good online article in something like racecar engineering about that.

They had a CFD plot of a nascar shell with a rear splittler attached to the edge of the boot. They varied the angle and length of the splitter and plotted the downforce and drag.

Yes there were regions where the rear splitter wing reduced drag, from memory it was at angles which created little or no downforce. The reduction in drag was the result of letting the airstreams from above and below the car merge with less turbulence.

[2.2 Straight six]

i have that article in one of my copies of Racecar Engineering.

interesting read, although not being an engineer i can't say i understood all of it.

[INF3RN0666]

Yeah that's what I was saying about a spoiler. The ones that direct air upward (not as to create downforce) but as to redirect turbulent air away from the bumper and getting under the car. I don't really recommend spoilers just because most of them are for aesthetics on consumer vehicles. Or you get the ricers that put massive spoilers that have no purpose what so ever, because they look ugly and are not properly adjusted.

[stick99]

Because there are so many different factors that go in to drag forces, it's possible that a spoiler can change how the air flows around the car and reducing drag on the car.

For example, if you change where on the car the flow changes to turbulent flow, it can possible reduce drag. The dimples on golf balls actually create turbulent flow to reduce drag.

I would think that a spoiler able to reduce the drag would need to have a very large amount of time and money spent researching it, it would not be done for a common car that has no need extra downforce. Taking any spoiler and just slapping onto your car and having it actually work to reduce drag would probably be luckier then winning the lottery.

I've heard that the car with the least amount of drag out there now is the Honda Insite with it's teardrop shape

[bobss396]

Ever hear of hypermiling? There is a group of people that do outrageous things to get as much fuel mileage as possible. Read up on it, very interesting but very extreme in some cases. Literally, anything non-functional is stripped out of the car. That's just one trick.

Bob

[vgames33]

Originally Posted by bobss396

Ever hear of hypermiling? There is a group of people that do outrageous things to get as much fuel mileage as possible. Read up on it, very interesting but very extreme in some cases. Literally, anything non-functional is stripped out of the car. That's just one trick.

Bob

There was something in the paper about that the other day. They were suggesting that we should ride the bumper of a semi truck to gain "eye-popping gas mileage."

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by vgames33

There was something in the paper about that the other day. They were suggesting that we should ride the bumper of a semi truck to gain "eye-popping gas mileage."

Like a truck driver will put up with that for long! I think that you have to be within a couple of feet for it to be effective.

Bob

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by bobss396

Like a truck driver will put up with that for long! I think that you have to be within a couple of feet for it to be effective.

Bob

Truck Drivers generally don't care about being tail gated, after all if you hit the back of a truck in your car because you are stupid enough to follow it close, who do you think is going to be able to keep driving?

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Truck Drivers generally don't care about being tail gated, after all if you hit the back of a truck in your car because you are stupid enough to follow it close, who do you think is going to be able to keep driving?

Yeah, truckers love cars in places where they can't see them. And I'm the Easter Bunny.

[turtlecrxsi]

I saw an EG Civic hatch with plastic shaped to form various extensions on the rear/hatch part of the car as well as splitter-like extensions along the sides. At a distance I thought it was just some rice-mobile but up close I could tell that the guy was probably "experimenting" with aerodynamics. I tried to snap a pic but when I told my wife to drive along side the car she passed it and then the guy turned.

[2.2 Straight six]

Originally Posted by bobss396

Yeah, truckers love cars in places where they can't see them. And I'm the Easter Bunny.

i've spoken to truck drivers about that, they don't care.

you run into a truck at 70 and they won't even feel it.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by bobss396

Yeah, truckers love cars in places where they can't see them. And I'm the Easter Bunny.

Iv spent several years driving trucks, and currently work for NZ largest freight company. Trust me, they don't care

If you drive beside them, in their blind spots however.......