bout 550 HP Carrera GT

[AC_A340-500]

I have always wondered why european cars have cost so much. The viper ,vette Z06, and mustang cobra all offer performance as good as most 911s for MUCH MUCH less. I know that they are a little more luxurious but not that much. Does anybody know why they cost so much more?

Porsche will start GT deliveries here this summer. The HP was increased to better compete with the Ferrari Enzo.

As for the price for these exotics. It has more to do with how North Americans vs. Europeans define the word “performance”. Haven grown up there, I know that most of us back home would say that “power and acceleration” is what’s most important, and is what Performance is all about. Over here in Europe, power (or more specifically power to weight ratio), is secondary to things like braking, handling, and cornering. Yes, I know there are exceptions.

The difference in price: is it justified or not? It’s also quite difficult to compare these cars, but let’s do it anyhow:
Mustang SVT Cobra (390hp, $35,000 USD)
Corvette Z06 (410hp, $55,000USD)
Porsche 911 GT3 (381hp, $99,000USD)


All are good for sub-13-second quarter mile times. Biggest bang for the buck: Mustang, no question.
But what about aspects such as:
Braking, cornering (small, medium, large, increasing and decreasing radius corners, and all in a variety of conditions like wet, dry, bumpy etc.), weight distribution, weight transfer, engine refinement, endurance (how long can things be punished without getting hot, losing performance, or breaking), ride, interior refinement, transmission and differential calibration (have the ratios, strength been optimised), aerodynamics, driver-pedal-shifter position/comfort for performance driving, etc, etc.).

OK, in acceleration all are relatively equal.

In braking, especially in repeated hard braking, Porsche is second to none (even the M-guys at BMW frequently switch to Porsche brakes here at the Nürburgring).
In cornering ability, there’s only a marginal difference between the 911 and the C5 Corvette. At least on paper (usually skid-pads are used to determine cornering ability). In the real world however, it’s not only the ability for a car to achieve maximum G’s in a corner of a single radius, other factors become really important like: does late braking affect the cornering limits? Early power-on while exiting a corner? How well does a car “toss” (from an extreme left-hand corner to an extreme right-hand corner)? How easy is it to recover if I accidentally enter a corner too fast, or apply too much power, too soon? Such real world differences only become apparent at the race track, when behind the wheel, or comparing lap times, (or on the street in emergency situations).

Off the shelf, a GT3 is able to achieve lap times (on most road courses) somewhat quicker than a Z06 Corvette. Is this difference significant enough to feel while driving down the street in your hometown on the weekend? Probably not. Is the $50,000 difference in price noticeable? Yes!

However, if you have the extra cash, and you spend a lot of time on the streets here in Europe and participate in motor sports events, then the choice becomes clear.

I’ve driven a lot of stock and modified Fox-bodied Mustangs and know that they are an extraordinary bang for the buck. However, they do have limits (especially their suspension and brakes), and these become apparent once you spend some time in a 911, M3 or even C5. I also drove a handful of C4’s (Corvettes). I thought they handled OK, but their weight certainly took it’s toll on braking and tire performance after a few laps. The C5 (especially the Z06) is lighter, well balanced, and probably the best North American car for the Nürburgring, and for a great price.

So back to the question:
“I have always wondered why european cars have cost so much. The viper ,vette Z06, and mustang cobra all offer performance as good as most 911s for MUCH MUCH less”

The Mustangs performance is not comparable except for acceleration (it should be taken out of the list). The Viper is simply enormous (not suited for tight twisty roads, but great for race tracks). And, on the road course, the Z06 is probably comparable to a “regular” new 911 C2, yet there are still issues of refinement with the Vette.

Why are they so much more expensive? Is it because of the R & D? A GT3 can do 0-124mph and back to zero again in under 20 seconds, and it gets close to 35mpg on the highway. It develops 381 (real) horsepower out of 3.6 liters of displacement! Comes with ceramic brakes, and is an off-the-shelf race ready car, that can be abused all day long. Does that justify the price, even if a Viper and Vette can’t quite match those figures? I dunno. Depends on the application.

All I know is that I can’t wait to get my hands on one of those new SVT Cobras, shed about 500 pounds of weight out of it, do some suspension tuning, throw some big Brembos on it and drive it around here. Why? Cause it’s the only one that I’d be able to afford.


OK, that was my opinion to the question.

[jfiliss]

Outstanding post, and an excellent summation.

[McLarenF1GTR]

Originally posted by AC_A340-500
........*cut* In braking, especially in repeated hard braking, Porsche is second to none (even the M-guys at BMW frequently switch to Porsche brakes here at the Nürburgring).

really enjoyed your post AC_A340-500!!

very interesting about your knowledge/citing of the M boys trialing Porsche brakes.. when i was last at the ring (1999) the Nismo engineers over from Japan were playing around also.. various GTR's running Porsche brakes, but the standout was a set of 12 piston Brabus (limo) brakes being played with.. *nice*

on price, i have spoken with a friend who works in the finance department for Porsche.. the price has NOT been set yet, but is "projected" to be "over" 250k..

deposits will (normally/should) conform with Porsche dealer procedures for "limited release" vehicles such as this -- 10% of total price (which is not yet determined in this case), so most countries dealers are requesting prospective clients to stump up to 20k USD, to join the order queue.. from the porsche finance department's perspective, they are going after the Enzo/Lambo/Merc SLR customers who -- lets be realistic -- dont worry about a deposit price (they want the motor etc!)..

in saying this, previous posts have mentioned as little as 1-5k deposit, which sounds like a great deal for the customer -- but slightly unrealistic from a dealers point of view?

[AC_A340-500]

....was a set of 12 piston Brabus....

Wow! Can you imagine doing a rebuild on one of those?!

[McLarenF1GTR]

AC >> i find a 4-piston set of Brembo or Willwood difficult enough -- this is a nightmare thought!! sadly, have never had my hands on a nice set of Porsche brakes -- one day though..

after thinking for a moment about my own times for changing such things over, i have so much respect for race day/pit crew mechanics hey!!