What’s wrong with Ford and the new Mustang?

[01L2Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

well what i was trying to say, with the cars having a weight dif of about 350lbs, was that after adding the S/C and all the suspension peices that the weight difference would be minimal between the cars, not the engines, it doesnt take a genious to know AL is lighter

What I was trying to show is that most of the added weight is due to the "pig iron" 5.4. It also puts more weight in the worst possible spot. The GT500 is more than likely looking at a 57/43 weight distribution.

Originally Posted by TheStang00

isnt the gt500 around 40K?

Nope its $45k+ now

Originally Posted by Hau Thai-Tang

The hardest part of the Mustang is that it has unprecedented market positioning in terms of revenue. We have a V6 coupe that starts just below $20,000 and then we work all the way up to a Shelby GT500 that's probably going to be in excess of $45,000. So you're talking about more than a twofold increase and there are no other cars out there that do that.

http://www.themsj.com/media/paper207...www.themsj.com

That is slightly more than a base level C6 Vette. In a straight line it’s going to be a fair fight between the two cars but if there is a corner the Vette is gone. I am sorry but for the money the Vette is the clear winner of the two cars. I just hope Ford hasn't doomed the SVT Mustang due to its price.

Ford is already upsetting many of the SVT loyalists due to the poor leadership of HTT. Honestly they released the prototype way too early. Yes it sparked interest but much of that interest has now become dissatisfaction. Proposed prices have gone from under $40K to $45K+, to many cost cutting changes (i.e. no more twin screw), and now dealerships are telling people on the waiting list they will be something like $10k over invoice. Honestly I think SVT is a lost cause if HTT remains in charge and things like this don't change.

[zx2srdotnet]

Dealers have been telling people on waiting lists the gt500 will cost 50k or more after markup.

very few have found a dealer selling at MSRP.

and the painted stripes are now due to be just decals.

I am largely against v6 mustangs (think they are a waste of metal since Ford havent given them a good motor in over 10yrs) but I have found that of the 05+ line the ONLY mustang I like is the v6+Pony Package.

the way i see the line up:
v6 = decent car, if Pony pkg included is the most out of the line up to look like the classic

GT = great motor but should have the pony pkg look, the huge fogs are ugly

GT500 = I like NOTHING about it and find NOTHING on it impressive.

[01L2Cobra]

Originally Posted by zx2srdotnet

the painted stripes are now due to be just decals.

The painted stripes never even had a chance. Even the Ford GT has vinyl decals and its $150K+ .





Yea I know the GT has painted LM stripes but the side stripes are still vinyl.

[zx2srdotnet]

thats pathetic

[01L2Cobra]

Yep it sure is...its also classic Ford cost cutting

[TheStang00]

well i wouldnt argue with most points on this page of the thread. except i think the fogs on the gt's look pretty cool, and i disagree that the 3.8 is a bad motor, atleast the more recent ones, the older ones did suck. the 3.8 is very very reliable and is a pretty tough motor. but it doesnt come with a whole ton of power stock, but that could have something to do with the fact that ford doesnt want it competing with the gt, which has 260hp compared to 195... so if they added much more power the v6 no one would buy a gt.

[zx2srdotnet]

but even GM gave the f-body v6's a package that gave them better gear/exhaust and i think intake. come on a 1994 v6 mustang w/ a 150hp v6? my 91 taurus had 120.

in 1998 v6 stang - 150HP, there best i4 was 130 in a MUCH lighter car

ford needs to give the v6 either a VERY well designed v6 (like the 3.5 they have coming out soon) or do one of 2 things tuners have been dong for years.

1. Use a 3.0 duratec block w/ Contour SVT head/cams ect making about 230hp crank(redone for a rwd car ofcourse)

2. do like current v6 owners do, make it into a 4.2l motor so it can make real power.

personaly i think if they apply the technology on the 3.5 they have coming out and apply it to a 4.2 it can make some REAL power,

[01L2Cobra]

Ford just needs to drop the V6 in the Mustang. Ford, Volvo, Land Rover and Jaguar will be using a new 3.2 litre inline six in various applications. The standard engine is expected to produce 240bhp with a turbo-charged version approaching 300bhp.

[giddyup50]

Hey The Stang00, how did I contradict myself?

Also, what are you talking about when you said we can't have a supercar for $25k? When I mentioned a supercar from Ford being the GT, I meant the GT=remake of the GT40. If that's the case, then you just dogged the escort guy for the same thing you did. Anyway, just wondering what you meant, I believe it was on page 2.
Thanks.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by zx2srdotnet

but even GM gave the f-body v6's a package that gave them better gear/exhaust and i think intake. come on a 1994 v6 mustang w/ a 150hp v6? my 91 taurus had 120.

in 1998 v6 stang - 150HP, there best i4 was 130 in a MUCH lighter car

ford needs to give the v6 either a VERY well designed v6 (like the 3.5 they have coming out soon) or do one of 2 things tuners have been dong for years.

1. Use a 3.0 duratec block w/ Contour SVT head/cams ect making about 230hp crank(redone for a rwd car ofcourse)

2. do like current v6 owners do, make it into a 4.2l motor so it can make real power.

personaly i think if they apply the technology on the 3.5 they have coming out and apply it to a 4.2 it can make some REAL power,

thats why i said the newer 3.8's the older ones were a little underpowered... to say the least. i mean the 99-04 (190-195hp). maybe i should have clarified. and actually, the svt focus had that 170hp I4. but im sure ur aware of that. yes the v6 f-budy did have slightly more power, but it also had a larger price tag.

take my mustang, guess how many problems ive had with the engine... zero. infact the entire car has been perfect. its got about 75k on it right now, which isnt a real high number... but it still hasnt had a single problem. and with some new rods you can put some good boost on the motor too. only problem is the rear end isnt meant to take anything over 300hp so itll go. and the tranny will last with those numbers a while, but its not really built to take it either. but those two things have nothing to do with that engine.

edit- im not gonna try to say they should keep with this motor tho, i do agree that i think the new ones are better, especially the 3.5

[Joshta]

Well that pisses me off about the price raise. I thought this car was gonna be the sh*t. They were projecting it to be the 1st prod. car with 500hp under 40k. I can live with the solid axle(prefer it really)and the weight as long as it comes from a bigger motor, but this marking up prices sucks. Just like the Ford GT, it started at 140k and i went crazy over this thing until i found out you couldn't get one for 200k in cash. (in birmingham)

and if Ford ever puts hybrid motor in a mustang, i will probably become a camaro fan.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by giddyup50

Hey The Stang00, how did I contradict myself?

Also, what are you talking about when you said we can't have a supercar for $25k? When I mentioned a supercar from Ford being the GT, I meant the GT=remake of the GT40. If that's the case, then you just dogged the escort guy for the same thing you did. Anyway, just wondering what you meant, I believe it was on page 2.
Thanks.

i might have to look into the inline six, thats kind of a neat idea.

meant you contradicted urself when u said u want it up there with gm in hp (350-400) and still $16K. not possible really. and also you said you want the 5.0's, but still up there in power, when the 5.0 had 225hp.

but the 5.0 was a good motor and it wouldnt surprise me if ford could have bored it out and put some better heads on it etc... and made it competitive with the ls1. but since you have one you might know more about that than me.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by Joshta

Well that pisses me off about the price raise. I thought this car was gonna be the sh*t. They were projecting it to be the 1st prod. car with 500hp under 40k. I can live with the solid axle(prefer it really)and the weight as long as it comes from a bigger motor, but this marking up prices sucks. Just like the Ford GT, it started at 140k and i went crazy over this thing until i found out you couldn't get one for 200k in cash. (in birmingham)

and if Ford ever puts hybrid motor in a mustang, i will probably become a camaro fan.

actually the gt started at just under $130k... lol i follow it from the beginning. I do agree though, the price raise and the unswappable pulleys kinda piss me off., i can live with the weight increase to cause the new stangs have a isgnificantly better suspension.

[zx2srdotnet]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

thats why i said the newer 3.8's the older ones were a little underpowered... to say the least. i mean the 99-04 (190-195hp).

Same motor just difernt heads, single port injecton vs slit port

Originally Posted by TheStang00

and actually, the svt focus had that 170hp I4. but im sure ur aware of that.

the SVT Focus was also welling for 18-19k wehne the v6 stang was selling as 17-18k. I use the ZX2 because the ZX2 was selling at 13k vs the 20k for the stang in 98. And for the record the 143hp S/R is on par w/ the SVT focus in both accelleration and handeling for 16k, which in turn makes the 99+ look worse.

Originally Posted by TheStang00

take my mustang, guess how many problems ive had with the engine... zero. infact the entire car has been perfect. its got about 75k on it right now, which isnt a real high number... but it still hasnt had a single problem.

ive seen 4 05's either being towed or on flatbeds already, that more then any other stang ive ever seen

Originally Posted by TheStang00

and with some new rods you can put some good boost on the motor too. only problem is the rear end isnt meant to take anything over 300hp so itll go. and the tranny will last with those numbers a while, but its not really built to take it either. but those two things have nothing to do with that engine.

I can say the same for an Escort, give it better rod bolts and a LSD and it can take over 200whp, or over 300 if you take compression into account. whoodee frick'n do

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by zx2srdotnet

Same motor just difernt heads, single port injecton vs slit port

hmm so you think me... a 3.8 owner doesnt know that. but its not the same engine, the old one was notorious for head gasket problems, the 99-04's arent. that was fixed. plus the 99-04 actually start out with some decent kick. esp in lowend.

Originally Posted by zx2srdotnet

ive seen 4 05's either being towed or on flatbeds already, that more then any other stang ive ever seen

well its good that i wasnt talking about the 4.0... but even still, im sure all thatll get worked out.

Originally Posted by zx2srdotnet

I can say the same for an Escort, give it better rod bolts and a LSD and it can take over 200whp, or over 300 if you take compression into account. whoodee frick'n do

My whole point was it can take a lot of boost, not that it could take any. besides, how much more boost would it take for the escort to reach the same numbers... and id be willing to bet that the block cant take as much boost. not only that, but i know for a fact that zetecs are expensive little guys to mod.