300z tt vs. sti

[VAD0R]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

first of all...as yaggus just stated. eventhough the 2.0L was used in the JDM STI's...the output was still about the same as the 2.5L.

and second of all, the STI has no technological advancements over the 300zxTT. if you would like to get techinical we could further discuss the topic, but i think if you knew anything about either car, you could easily reach the conclusion that the TT has much more technological advancements and it is a 16 year old productioned car. 4-wheel steering and Electronically Adjustable suspension just for starters. we wont even get into the extroadinary engineering and aerodynamics that rate the Z32 far superior.

I wouldn't say superior, perhaps about equal.

You can't forget the STi's engine comes equipped with an Active Valve Lift System, tranny uses rear biased AWD with Variable Torque Differential equipped with Digitally Controlled Center Differential controls which are located behind the shifter and the 06 STi has a new roof vane spoiler (like the EVO's roof inlets) to focus air on the main spoiler thus furtheer improving downforce.

The 2006 WRX STi also has slightly wider gearing which can further help its chances against a Z32 TT on the highway, up until 160mph perhaps.

Like I said before though, the STi is not technilogically superior to the Z32. For example, the suspension in the 300ZXTT from a mechanical standpoint does indeed make the STi seem archaic and I do admit though aerodynamically the STi doesn't hold a candle to the 300ZX.

[Muscletang]

I found some numbers and specs here: SOURCE

These are the fastest times for the Z I could find.

1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo 5.6 14.1
1992 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 5.7 14.2
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 5.2 13.8
1994 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 6.0 14.4

2004 Subaru WRX Sti 4.9, 13.2

As for the technology thing somebody didn't think of something, the computer. There's no way they are both the same in these cars.
Take the new Mustangs, nothing but a computer on wheels. If you re-program the thing you can shave half a second off your time. You think you could of done that with the computers back in the old 5.0s? Don't think so.

Also, I think the reliablity goes to the Z here.

If I had to choose though, I'd take the Z. The STi is newer and a little bit flavor of the month. Sure it's nice to see one on the road, but there's something though about those old Zs you just can't shake.

[G-man422]

you're calling a 300ZX TT a clunker when you have a '93 "Tegg". UM,............and how did you come to that conclusion?

[9ball]

This is an interesting comparison even though the two cars are in completely different price ranges. The Subaru is just a completely different style of car from the old 300zx. The Subaru will feel and handle like a rally car whereas the 300zx will feel like a Japanese version of the Corvette, however a little heavier than the vette. You guys are splitting hairs without seeing the obvious in the acceleration numbers. The Subaru is faster out of the gate because all 4 wheels are grabbing, this creates a problem for the owner if you do this too many times for obvious mechanical reasons. I believe that if both cars (stock) were going highway speed and then nailed the throttle the 300zx might pull away.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by VAD0R

I wouldn't say superior, perhaps about equal.

here let me re-phrase my statement...

"we wont even get into the extroadinary engineering and aerodynamics that rate the Z32 far superior, in my opinion."

now let me explain why i feel this why:

one may think that price doesnt always matter but in most cases it does. like i have said before, the engineering and things that the Z32 offered was unheard of for 1990 therefore costing $45k plus for the TT model. the STI brand new in 2005 (including the higher prices) sells for a little over $35k.

Aerodynamics are just an obvious tally for the 300zx unless you are blind. it has a drag coefficient not too far off of fully built race cars.

as an overall package i think the 300zx offers alot more engineering and sphistication than does the STI. depending on what you find more essential and valuable to you...to me, engineering has mroe to do with the engine. it is the design, the features, the suspension, body, controls at your finger tips, the little tricks and ideas and inventions added to it...

by little things i mean...all controls at figner tips, where your hand doesnt have to move more than 4 inches from the steering wheel. the under body panel coated in Urethane and a bumpy surface to keep water from sticking to it and eventually causing rust, glass t-tops but still a very rigid chassis, wheels specially designed to suck air in and cool the brake calipers and rotors, seats that can be adjusted for the racng cradle position with the sides squeezing you in or the relaxed cruising position...the list goes on. but liek i said, it is the little things that nissan thought of when designing this car that make the engineering superior, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Muscletang

1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo 5.6 14.1
1992 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 5.7 14.2
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 5.2 13.8
1994 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 6.0 14.4

those numbers crack me up everytime...how can you test the same exact car, just different years...4 different times and range from 5.2-6.0, 0-60mph. i dont know how they ran that Z to get that 6.0sec 0-60 but they must have not slept in a "Holiday Inn Express". that is slow...

id say most owners run anywhere from the time they have recorded in 1990 to the time they have recorded in 1993.

[TatII]

well the way they designed the car's aerodynamics is very different. the Z is meant to be slip stream for better top end, while the STi's is designed to put alot of downforce and reduce lift in the front end at higher speeds. thats why the blocky design of the STi is not goin to win any top speed contest, but it will however feel very glued to the ground.

[nastyNater]

Originally Posted by G-man422

you're calling a 300ZX TT a clunker when you have a '93 "Tegg". UM,............and how did you come to that conclusion?

it is if yur refferring to weight. my stripped integra weighs all of 2400-2500 lbs. hey who said that the Z weighs 3200? i have found numerous sites saying that it weighs more.....

hey what else can i do to take some weight off? already took out back seat, spare,jack,etc, no carpet, radio, air conditioning. got any advice?

[nastyNater]

i love the Z....would never hate on it....i will do a critical analyzation however....heh

[VAD0R]

Originally Posted by k3mostwanted

here let me re-phrase my statement...

"we wont even get into the extroadinary engineering and aerodynamics that rate the Z32 far superior, in my opinion."

now let me explain why i feel this why:

one may think that price doesnt always matter but in most cases it does. like i have said before, the engineering and things that the Z32 offered was unheard of for 1990 therefore costing $45k plus for the TT model. the STI brand new in 2005 (including the higher prices) sells for a little over $35k.

Aerodynamics are just an obvious tally for the 300zx unless you are blind. it has a drag coefficient not too far off of fully built race cars.

as an overall package i think the 300zx offers alot more engineering and sphistication than does the STI. depending on what you find more essential and valuable to you...to me, engineering has mroe to do with the engine. it is the design, the features, the suspension, body, controls at your finger tips, the little tricks and ideas and inventions added to it...

by little things i mean...all controls at figner tips, where your hand doesnt have to move more than 4 inches from the steering wheel. the under body panel coated in Urethane and a bumpy surface to keep water from sticking to it and eventually causing rust, glass t-tops but still a very rigid chassis, wheels specially designed to suck air in and cool the brake calipers and rotors, seats that can be adjusted for the racng cradle position with the sides squeezing you in or the relaxed cruising position...the list goes on. but liek i said, it is the little things that nissan thought of when designing this car that make the engineering superior, in my opinion.

Unless you are trying to respond to another person in the same post I never said anything about offering more or about the same for a lower price.

Also from your engineering standpoint the STi offers a few things which the 300ZXTT doesn't. For example, the STi comes with a climate control, which is one of the few things that came from its GT brethren. Another is the ability, thanks to the DCCD, to input if you want a solid torque split or a variable one and to even determine the what the solid front/rear from a knob within the glove compartment.

Another thing, which is a huge technological plus for the STi is the integrated ECU to TCU configuration. Now before you go off on how this can't be a feature found on cars when the Z32 first came, you should consider the SVX came equipped with a management system, which is one of the 16bit ones I might add, that is about the same as the one now in the STi when it first debuted as a concept in 1989 as well as when it was first put into production in 1991. However, not everyone had the right peripherals and Subaru engineers never considered to make the SVX's ECU adaptive enough to make people able to tune it like how the STi is being tuned today. However, one company created a RAM module add on that can change that.

Not to mention the STi has or had since 2004 one of the most closely ratioed 6 speeds.

Also, even though the STi suspension is not equipped with any electrically mechanic controls for 4 wheel steering, as well as stiffening plus height adjustments, like most respectible rally cars over the past 20 years it still has to be sophisticated enough to tear through dirt and gravel while still able to hold well to its up-most on tarmac.

Also, the 2006 WRX comes with probably one of the most sophisticated combination of HID low beam and halogen light projector configurations. As well as coming equipped with daytime running lights and finally for the STi as well, fog lights below it.

As seats go it might not be as adjustable as the 300ZX but they are upholstered with a tactile, stiff, yet comfortable Ecsaine fabric with only the closest of sorts found in its Mitsubishi rival and within the aftermarket.

I still agree with you though that the Z32TT is still a more sophisticatingly engineered automobile mostly in part because it was designed primarily to be but you just can't call the STi a pure brute. Its more like a car that was designed through high tech engineering to be one.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by VAD0R

Also from your engineering standpoint the STi offers a few things which the 300ZXTT doesn't. For example, the STi comes with a climate control, which is one of the few things that came from its GT brethren. Another is the ability, thanks to the DCCD, to input if you want a solid torque split or a variable one and to even determine the what the solid front/rear from a knob within the glove compartment.

the 300zxTT has climate control...a very well designed climate control that cars today are just now starting to feature. i dont know where you got your information about it not having climate control...

and yes once again, the 300zx doesnt have AWD...

Another thing, which is a huge technological plus for the STi is the integrated ECU to TCU configuration. Now before you go off on how this can't be a feature found on cars when the Z32 first came, you should consider the SVX came equipped with a management system, which is one of the 16bit ones I might add, that is about the same as the one now in the STi when it first debuted as a concept in 1989 as well as when it was first put into production in 1991. However, not everyone had the right peripherals and Subaru engineers never considered to make the SVX's ECU adaptive enough to make people able to tune it like how the STi is being tuned today. However, one company created a RAM module add on that can change that.

i dont exactly know how this is beneficial once the car is in the driver's hands...but maybe you would like to explain so i dotn have to research it.

Not to mention the STi has or had since 2004 one of the most closely ratioed 6 speeds.

and the 300zxTT has one of the best geared 5-speeds on the planet. manages quick 1/4 miles times that is only a little over a half second slower than its 15 year old competition. but still has the proper gearing in a 5-speed to manage to go at speeds around 200mph. different takes for different people...but definitely not a technological advantage in either case. does the STI come in a 4-speed automatic with OD? i would say that is an advancement that is over-looked...i dont know if Subaru cant make a automatic gearbox strong or reliable enough to handle the power or they just didnt feel it was necessary. reguardless automatics offer more technology than ancient times manual transmissions.

Also, the 2006 WRX comes with probably one of the most sophisticated combination of HID low beam and halogen light projector configurations. As well as coming equipped with daytime running lights and finally for the STi as well, fog lights below it.

like i said, i gave the STI the headlights nods because it offers HID's instead of the 300zx's projectors. eventhough the technology was not available for the 300zx to have HID's there is no argument on my side because that is what this thread is entitled.

as far as fog lights go...i dont know where you were going because the 300zx also has fog lights. i wouldnt call day-time running lights a technological advancement...i dont even see the point of having them at all. if you want to see lights out of my front end when the sun is out...i can turn on my headlights for you. thats not a problem...

I still agree with you though that the Z32TT is still a more sophisticatingly engineered automobile mostly in part because it was designed primarily to be but you just can't call the STi a pure brute. Its more like a car that was designed through high tech engineering to be one.

and i will agree with you that the STI is not a brute as i have never called a Brute. i simply said it was built to please a certain crowd...

like i said, i liek the STI and i am not being biased...but i think the 300zx was engineered better. i may have different wants out of a car and you may have other wants out of your cars, like HID...

[VAD0R]

Sorry about that, I only saw on the net plus peered into the interior of one on a couple of occassions and assumed it wasn't climate control, it could have been the NA one even though I assume the interior in those are exactly the same, my bad.

And yes, I do agree with you that the 300ZX has more electronic and interior features. I just am saying that the STi is not completely left in its technilogical wake.

As for the WRX's ECU the benifit of having such an intergrated and user accessible features is the ability to re-configure and program apects of fuel timing and torque slits that can offer good performance gains, depending on what you are doing, without physically tweaking that much of the engine or tranny. In other words an ECU that is found in the WRX doesn't need an additional RAM module most of the time since it is already quite proggramable as is.

And as for it being only a manual, that is pretty much Subaru's thinking on it appealing to its core performance oriented audience and take away from the brutish rally feeling. Even though WRC cars now use automatics. That and the fact that a 6 speed automatic that can withstand its power would be bit expensive to mass produce.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by VAD0R

Sorry about that, I only saw on the net plus peered into the interior of one on a couple of occassions and assumed it wasn't climate control, it could have been the NA one even though I assume the interior in those are exactly the same, my bad.

i think very few base models came with the little circular switch that controls the fan speed. but i personally have never seen one without climate control...

And yes, I do agree with you that the 300ZX has more electronic and interior features. I just am saying that the STi is not completely left in its technilogical wake.

agreed...

As for the WRX's ECU the benifit of having such an intergrated and user accessible features is the ability to re-configure and program apects of fuel timing and torque slits that can offer good performance gains, depending on what you are doing, without physically tweaking that much of the engine or tranny. In other words an ECU that is found in the WRX doesn't need an additional RAM module most of the time since it is already quite proggramable as is.

i guess that could be beneficial to someone who knows what they are doing and with access to a dyno. but then again, the Z32 had OBD-I which is able to diagnose its own sensor failures and other miscallaneous things. for the average do-it-yourselfer...this is a life saver rather than having sommbody charge you an enormous amount of money just to tell you that your ECT sensor has a malfunction.

And as for it being only a manual, that is pretty much Subaru's thinking on it appealing to its core performance oriented audience and take away from the brutish rally feeling. Even though WRC cars now use automatics. That and the fact that a 6 speed automatic that can withstand its power would be bit expensive to mass produce.

maybe...but i feel they could have sold quite a few more STI's if they would have offered it in an Automatic. maybe a special option that would have to be special ordered...i understand that the car should have a 6-speed manual but when you are selling a car for $30k+ you have to look at who is able to afford these cars. i know alot of older gentlemen that would be pleased if Mitsubishi or Subaru offered the EVO or STI in an automatic. their wives keep them from buying a manual, in case they need to drive it. its a ridiculous excuse but it is a factor none-the-less.

[nastyNater]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

and the 300zxTT has one of the best geared 5-speeds on the planet. manages quick 1/4 miles times that is only a little over a half second slower than its 15 year old competition. but still has the proper gearing in a 5-speed to manage to go at speeds around 200mph. different takes for different people...but definitely not a technological advantage in either case. does the STI come in a 4-speed automatic with OD? i would say that is an advancement that is over-looked...i dont know if Subaru cant make a automatic gearbox strong or reliable enough to handle the power or they just didnt feel it was necessary. reguardless automatics offer more technology than ancient times manual transmissions.

how much work do you have to do to motor/tranny to hit 200mph? thats a ridiculous #. if thats true than the one of the most amazing trannies built to date.

[nastyNater]

oh yeah.....

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

the 300zxTT weighs in at 3,414lbs.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/sp...IP&tab=2&sub=4

[kman10587]

He's saying that the 300ZX is geared to go 200 mph, not that it has the power to do it. You'd need to do quite a bit of aftermarket work to reach that kind of speed. And yes, the weight for a bare-bones model is about 3,400 lbs, and more if it has options. Anyways, I love the 300ZX, and I also agree that it is the more sophisticated car than the STi, but I just don't see it being a better overall performance package. The STi has an extra gear, a better power-to-weight ratio, and fifteen years of tire, brake, suspension, and chassis technology on the 300ZX. It'd be ridiculous if it wasn't the faster car. Not to say that the 300ZX is slow, or a bad car - it was one of the best and most loved sports cars of the 90's, and remains a beloved classic even today - but you can't realistically expect a 15-year-old sports car to keep up with a brand-new sports car, especially when their prices are only about ten grand apart.