Ducati 996 R

[Z_Fanatic]

So you lapped around the track with a 996 and a 04 GSXR750, and came out feeling that 996 has superior handling?

I think I'll contest that Ducatis are built with better quality than Japanese bikes. Is that why everything rattles and falls apart before it leaves the driveway, and spends more time in garage/dealership than on the road? lol.

996 was voted to be prettiest bike of the century? So does that make it better for posing or riding? Looks are subjective really, I don't think everyone will agree that 996 is THE best looking bike out there, but many will agree that 999 is the fugliest Ducati out there, with the exception of Multistrada.

[NaKeDZX]

I've ridden both, it's just my opinion. You should re-read my post regarding mc of the century...You get a lot of what you pay for; Ohlins susp., lighter running gear, etc....It's a superior motorcycle in many ways. Unlike the American brands that sell for big bucks and you get nothing for it but a name.

[Z_Fanatic]

I understand that, but ohlin forks and shocks could be fitted to Japanese bikes as well. But Ducatis are known to have pieces fall off just from vibration, it's a trait. If Japanese bikes had the same problem, they wouldn't be this popular in the west. Ducati in many ways is just a status bike that reflects the size of one's pocket, Italian/European exotic which requires ridiculous attention. Many riders get it simply because it's non-Japanese, something to do with Western heritage and v-twin sound. In terms of handling, Japanese bikes are just as capable, it's the riders in the end. And the carbon fiber pieces are only meant to adds to its appeal.

[NaKeDZX]

Ohlins forks and shock would run $5k. Throw in some lightweight wheels and you're dangerously close to Duc pricing territory for a liter bike.

A couple months ago, Motorcyclist threw some money at an RC51 to upgrade the suspension and performance. They admitted that even a highly modified RC was no match for a 998 when it came down to riding 8/10s and above. But of course, most of them would buy the RC because it's falls within more of our budgets and performs better than most of us can handle. All I'm saying is that if you can afford it, you get something for your money. And although Jap bikes are incredibly capable and reliable, they are not Ducatis. And as someone mentioned, the 999 doesn't hold a candle to the 996-998s in the looks dept.

I don't think maintenance costs really factor in to what's a better weapon. My ZRX requires valve adjustments every 7500 miles. Other bikes wait till over 20k. Does that make the other bikes "better" than my ZRX? No, there's plenty of other things that make them better bikes! LOL

[aussieidiot]

i love the ducati's 996-998, and i used to ride a gixer daily and rode a duke once (albeit in a carpark at the bike shop)

i'd take the duke any day. especially the R

can't really compare the 998 with a liter jap bike. the dukes are compared to the 750 class in racing. and definately can't compare a 998 with a 04 gixer

BUT bang for buck the jap bikes win out everyday but the dukes are an awesome machine. for me it would come down to riding them back to back on the track and the street. chances are my skill level would suit the more forgiving nature of the jap bikes

[davemanyo]

true, the hayabusa is faster but much harder to come across, i dont think ive actually seen one in person

[ijohan]

Originally Posted by RSX

Let's be honest, I doubt that a Hayabusa will get you her. If you say that a Ducati is ugly, then I don't think that you know style. Performance wise, you do have to have a certain dedication to Ducatis to deal with them.

Thanks bro, I own a 996, I never regret buying it, even the price was high. Until now, my friend rides a 2005 CBR 1000 RR, but 996 has its own style, and people always admire Ducati, it just doesn't compare to Japanese bike. But that's my oppionion though.

[DealsGap]

Damn this is an old thread. I just skimmed it, but I'm surprised I didn't see anyone bring up the fact that Ducati won 10 out of the 14 WSB championships with the 916-998 series bikes. That decade was undeniably dominated by Ducati, and that bike was way ahead of its time.

The truly amazing thing about that bike, and what earns it the reputation it has, is the fact that it was designed in 1994 and remained virtually unchanged for SEASONS at a time. It received only power increases and a bit of polishing over an entire decade of racing. That is absolutely unheard of. The Japanese companies were just that far behind. In fact, that bike was SO dominant, that as a result of the whining of Ducati's competitors, Ducati was required to conform to a higher standard of rules in an attempt to slow the domination of the company. The highlight of those being a major minimum weight requirement increase. Fast forward to today, and I still see a slew of 916/996/998 race bikes turning respectable lap times, and that's a bike that's over a decade old. If that isn't domination, I don't know what is. I love the jap bikes, and I respect the level of performance they are at today for sure, but there is no denying the history of that particular motorcycle.

And I have a feeling my R6 will be in a junk yard somewhere long before it reaches the 50k trouble-free miles my Ducati had on it when I sold it...

And why the hell would anyone compare a Hayabusa to any real sport bike? It's fast in a straight line, but not much more so than a literbike, and it handles like a pregnant cow.

[G-man422]

I do like ducati!

[Z_Fanatic]

Only reason why Japanese bikes were behind those years simply because they lacked power on corner the exit, and weighed like hippos. Remember, they also restricted Japanese bikes to compete with equal displacements as the Ducs, they were limited to 749 CCs to make it "FAIR" for 900ccs twins. And now tables have turned again, Ducati lacks the power to keep up with the literbikes. And they've given up completely competing against middleweights.

Major bread and butter for Japanese manufacturers are 600 ccs, not quite the same for Ducati's 748/749, price tag and performance just doesn't cut it for the average squid. And perhaps insufficient fund for R&D hinders them to develop and release a new bike every two years, but at this rate, it would be a miracle for Ducati to win championships again. Sure they achieve single victories, but even with best riders, Ducati has tough time making it to 3rd at overall average with best riders on board. Hence why they're further developing V4 engine to replace its twin powerplants on WSBK and AMA racing grids.

I like sport v-twin engines, the power delivery, ease of use, but I would never consider racing on one at the current level of competition.

For me to go out and buy a 996-998/999 now would simply be because of its uncontested looks and visceral sound and feel. Not because it's the best bang for the buck for performance riding.

[Samurai75007]

Originally Posted by davemanyo

true, the hayabusa is faster but much harder to come across, i dont think ive actually seen one in person

I worked with a guy who had a Hyabusa, he said as soon as he could he would get the new 999R. I myself have a Ducati monster S2R dark that I got a year ago... though I don’t get to ride it much here in Dallas (bad drivers).

[DealsGap]

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

Only reason why Japanese bikes were behind those years simply because they lacked power on corner the exit, and weighed like hippos.

In otherwords, the Japanese bikes didn't have the power or handling to match the 916. Stop, go, turn; those are the 3 most basic elements of road racing. That's like losing a foot race and saying "he only beat me because he runs faster".

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

...but even with best riders...

In what form of racing does Ducati have even close to the top riders? Because it certainly isn't SBK or MotoGP. '06 is looking much better on both fronts for Ducati, though, with Gibernau and Bayliss riding Duc's.

I believe Ducati is making a motorcycle as good as any as it stands right now. Sport Rider did a track test a few months back of all of the current crop of literbikes, and the 999 was the fastest time of the weekend over all of the Japanese machines. Magazines are certainly not the end all be all of comparisons, but it says something about the capability of the bike in the right hands. I think Ducati's race program is no different. It's a matter of who's on board.

As far as what the 916 generation is/was, there is no way around the fact that it dominated a decade of racing, and with few changes needed along the way. It was far ahead of its time, and I'd go so far as to say that level of domination will never be matched by a single model of any manufacturer ever again.

[Z_Fanatic]

Capirossi, Laconi, E Bostrom, Xaus, I certainly would think they're talented riders, and Bostrom just switched mount. They're not your typical 5th grid rookies, they have years of experience behind them. And can I have link or scan of that comparisons, I would very much like to read it and see how much of it was measured in terms of track capability or emotional connection (as many Ducatista associate themselves with the badge).

I definitely agree it's the rider, but seeing how Ducati is being ranked far below in overall average even with talented riders on board, it does say something about the bike's capabilities. What, they can't afford a good rider? Certainly not that. Suzuki and Honda were at top on WSBK racing, and no point in getting into what happend in Moto GP, even if we took Rossi out of it. Racing is simple, whoever wins, must be doing something right, Ducati wasn't it. With all their 916-998 heritage of Superbike racing, they're just not cutting it. One could say the same about Kawasaki or Suzuki racing in Moto GP.

Another thing great about modern Japanese bikes, they're nimble on the street. You couldn't say the same about 916 compared to 900RR. Or 998 VS R1 or 748 VS any 600s. The weight just killed it for ease of use. Canyon carving on Ducs meant, enter the corner slower and power out.

[tran_nsx]

i'll take a 1000rr any day especially the black 06 and still have money to take all of u guys out to eat. rc211v hey a man can dream right?

[DealsGap]

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

Capirossi, Laconi, E Bostrom, Xaus, I certainly would think they're talented riders, and Bostrom just switched mount. They're not your typical 5th grid rookies, they have years of experience behind them.

Xaus is as fast a rider as anyone out there when he's upright, but he's a habitual crasher. You can't win championships when your bike is burried in the sand trap. Capirossi is a good rider, as all of those guys are, but he is not on the level of the top MotoGP riders. This is evident by the fact that when Gibernau climbed aboard the Ducati for testing for '06, he immediately turned lap times over 1 second faster than anyone else in the field, including Rossi. Having good riders doesn't get the job done at the current level of competition, having guys like Rossi on board is what makes the difference.

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

And can I have link or scan of that comparisons, I would very much like to read it and see how much of it was measured in terms of track capability or emotional connection (as many Ducatista associate themselves with the badge).

I'll see if I still have the magazine, and if I don't I'll find out which issue it was for you. It was simple a list of the lap times for each machine for the weekend. No emotion, no feel, no bias, just numbers.

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

Another thing great about modern Japanese bikes, they're nimble on the street. You couldn't say the same about 916 compared to 900RR. Or 998 VS R1 or 748 VS any 600s. The weight just killed it for ease of use. Canyon carving on Ducs meant, enter the corner slower and power out.

Are you speaking from experience here, or simply from hearsay? After having first hand experience with several Ducati sportbikes, a 916 being one of them, I can tell you that the cornering characteristics are truly outstanding. The main difference between the Trellis frame design and that of the japanese bikes is that Ducati has given up some ease of turn in for massive stability and feedback. This can obviously be adjusted for application, but the nature of the frame design and the setup the bike comes with stock lends itself to those traits. Ducati gets a lot of praise for unmatched stability, and the feedback given by that design is greater than any I have ever experienced. Feedback is so clear and concise it might as well be writing it down on paper for you. This makes riding the bike to its mechanical limit a much easier and more predictable proposition, and for a literbike, it is still an easy bike to flick around, at least in my experiences. There is a reason the trellis frame is still being used on bikes in '06, afterall...

basically I am just echoing what racers said about the bike in it's day, and the fact that it was such a great total package was the key to it's success.