blowers???

[CBFryman]

he cant give an example. running hte same boost they would do hte same damage from detonation. a turbo could actually do LESS because a roots has no chance to coll its air. a turbo can send its air through a intercooler (well a cyntrifical can too but that isnt hte point). one backfire on a roots and whole engine, carburator, blower is gone, ruined, time to start that performane motor over. backfire on a turbo wont do much besides unspool it. and since turbocharged cars are usually fule injected no carbs to ruine either... and if you aussies call turbos hairdryers in a derogatory maner maybe all of you are a stupid as steve erwin or how ever you spell his name "she's a beauty, eh? look at thoes large venomos fangs. if she where to bite me right now id be dead in 5 seconds"

[SaabJohan]

Originally Posted by xyfalconsrock

Turbos are called Hairdryers in australia, I don't go around making up names do i?


And if I had the money for a turbo yes it's the choice, but they cost heaps more than superchargers(conditions apply)

One more thing, I've heard turbo's doing more damage to engines than superchargers.

There is a SAE paper that actually state that a turbocharged engine has a better reliability than a large low speed NA or a small high speed NA engine.

It can also be funny to note that the roots used in Top Fuel today actually were designed for large low speed diesels, just like most large turbochargers!

[heres_addy]

ive neva heard so much shit in my life
CBfryman when your I.Q and balls grow to the point where there visible on a peice of paper maybe just maybe will people forget the shit youve been saying and take u for real.
turbo's are more efficent then superchargers????
i spose thats why the paxton superchargers clutch keeps it from drawing any energy until the driver demands power....in which he puts his foot on the accelerator (which is the peddle on the far right that you press to go faster) now if you think a turbo sounds better then a blower then i sugest u get a hearing test coz by fuck your hearing it wrong.....if u think a blow off sounds good then your still nurturing the inner child coz fucks sake who wants a car that sounds like an extra loud deoderant can when u change gears.
and if you hav the money to put a superchager on an engine then it dosnt back fire.
unlike those computer controled peices of shit that couldnt power a fucking toaster.
and who told u that u cant intercool a roots blower?
ford cobras hav a water to air intercooler under the blower which happens to be roots.
yes superchargers need power to work....but for the 80hp they use they make an extra 500hp ontop of it. superchargers run full boost from the word go....no lag here girls not like its turbo cuzin that needs time to wind up threw each gear.
show me a drag car with a turbo that has a blow off valve....there shit....u spend needed seconds winding it up just to blow it out coz it sounds "good".
whoeva told u top fueled dragsters go better with turbos are pulling there dick harder then there pulling the quarter because turbos need time to warm up and down and when your running nitro methane you dont hav time...dragsters take 120 litres of fuel to run a qauter mile and 40 litres of that is to start the fucking thing.
fresh cold air is always supplied threw the supercharger where the turbo gets hotter and losses both power and oil flow the longer its run.
the exhaust valve glows white hot and the sparkplugs melt half way down the quarter and you think a fucking turbo thats gunna restrict exhaust flow and create a shit load of unwanted heat is gunna work better. grow the fuck up!!!!!

[Reed]

wow heres addy gets the reward for most ignorant person ever. i think i may have heard kids who drag race civics make more sense.
oh man where to start?

turbos ARE far more efficient than superchargers. period. end of discussion. maybe you dont understand the word effecient (it means in this case to produce more than you use, and turbos produce far more power than they use compared to roots blowers)

as far as sound goes thats all opinion but i like something that screams instead of whines.

i dont know what you are talking about when you say "computer controlled pieces of shit" maybe fuel injection. well all of the fastest cars made in teh last 15-20 years have been fuel injected. hell even those hillbilly ass dragsters use EFI and electronic ignition its jsut mroe effecient and makes more power. (oops theres that dang old "effecient" word again). water to air intercoolers get heat soaked reletively quickly so they are garbage for anything that runs more than a quarter mile.

man! this isnt 1985 turbo lag is all but gone. a properly tuned car wont notice it especially in a drag race where you better not let your rpm drop. top fuelers dont shift anyhow so there is never a time where they would experience it at all. at all!

you dont blow it off cause it sounds good you blow it off to protect your compressor and intercooler from the pressure wave from the closing throttle plate and the excess pressure in teh manifold and plumbing.

how in the hell does a turbo lose power and oil flow the longer its run. that doesnt make any sense at all. the heat from the turbine doesnt come into contact with the charge air (maybe a little through the shaft or where the housings are attached but that is such a negligeable amount compared to the heat from compression).

stop making comparisons without any knowledge you sound like some ignorant 16 year old kid.

and if you think your right then get some facts and numbers and PROVE someone wrong.

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by heres_addy

ive neva heard so much shit in my life
CBfryman when your I.Q and balls grow to the point where there visible on a peice of paper maybe just maybe will people forget the shit youve been saying and take u for real.
turbo's are more efficent then superchargers????
i spose thats why the paxton superchargers clutch keeps it from drawing any energy until the driver demands power....in which he puts his foot on the accelerator (which is the peddle on the far right that you press to go faster) now if you think a turbo sounds better then a blower then i sugest u get a hearing test coz by fuck your hearing it wrong.....if u think a blow off sounds good then your still nurturing the inner child coz fucks sake who wants a car that sounds like an extra loud deoderant can when u change gears.
and if you hav the money to put a superchager on an engine then it dosnt back fire.
unlike those computer controled peices of shit that couldnt power a fucking toaster.
and who told u that u cant intercool a roots blower?
ford cobras hav a water to air intercooler under the blower which happens to be roots.
yes superchargers need power to work....but for the 80hp they use they make an extra 500hp ontop of it. superchargers run full boost from the word go....no lag here girls not like its turbo cuzin that needs time to wind up threw each gear.
show me a drag car with a turbo that has a blow off valve....there shit....u spend needed seconds winding it up just to blow it out coz it sounds "good".
whoeva told u top fueled dragsters go better with turbos are pulling there dick harder then there pulling the quarter because turbos need time to warm up and down and when your running nitro methane you dont hav time...dragsters take 120 litres of fuel to run a qauter mile and 40 litres of that is to start the fucking thing.
fresh cold air is always supplied threw the supercharger where the turbo gets hotter and losses both power and oil flow the longer its run.
the exhaust valve glows white hot and the sparkplugs melt half way down the quarter and you think a fucking turbo thats gunna restrict exhaust flow and create a shit load of unwanted heat is gunna work better. grow the fuck up!!!!!

Well here are some things i would like to point out noob.
1.) Direct Flamings are a BIG no no... i forgive you for the fact aht you are a noob, however be glad i am not a Mod because you would have a 1st chance free all expences paid vacation from AF.
2.) The fact that you drop the F-Bomb 5 times by my count shows your childish immatureity. yes i remmeber back in the day, i was like 8 and i though cussing was the coolest thing ever... untill my mom heard me and beat the living daylights out of me.
3.) It Doesnt matter when a compressor gets its power that determines its efficency, its how. ever heard of a boost controller? oh yes i can turn a knob and make my boost go from 15psi to 0psi. can your roots do that? no.
4.) The Reson turbo's are more efficent is because they get their power from a nearly wasted energy source, exaust heat/expansion. the backpressure caused by a turbine shows very minimal power losses compared to the power gaines from the compressor being spun by the turbine. maybe you would like ot read the stickey's before trying to flame.
5.) Now as for the blow off valve. BOV's are no longer in used by Mass Air Flow Sensor controlled Fule injected engines. why? well because the MAF would sence air going in, then the throttle would be closed, the BOV would vent into the atmosphere and the exaust flow sensor wouldnt account for that ammount of flow and the "check engine light" would come on and the engine would run rich for a short period of time. instead Diverter Vualves are used. which divert excess pressure back to preturbo post MAF plumbing. The reason a turbo uses a BOV or Diverter valve is to keep the turbo spooled (ohh look, one of the many technoligies preventing turbo lag) and to keep the compressor and or throttle body from being destroyed by a sudden jump in air pressure.
6.) As for your "computer Controlled POS" well fule injection isused in everything from Formula one to top fule. and you will never see a fule injected engine backfire. why? well frankly the computers know alot more about engine timing and valve timing than your wrech and screwdriver tuning a carburator and valve timing. Fule Injection is the 2nd greatest efficency jump since turbo's. they allow for greater flow, better control, and greater fule atomization.
7.) Turbo lag was eliminated even back in the days of Buick Grand Nationals. Turbo Timers, diverter/BOV's, properly maching turbine to exaust flow and impeler to desired boost have shown even as much as 3psi at idle... a properly tuned turbocharged engine will completely spool by 2,800 RPM easy. your roots takes 80hp from the crank and my turbo takes 10hp from the crank but both give the same ammount of boost and there fore the same ammount of fule and air and there fore the same ammount of gross power but net power at the crank is far different. 70hp difference...
8.) there has never been a top fule dragster to use a turbo and probably never will...why? well because the NHRA prohibits it. strictly roots only. tubos dont take time to "warm up." but they do, if you want them to last, like to have a few minutes of spinning with out creating any boost to let oil drain form the hydro bearings. but top fulers rebuild engiens after every race and trash engiens after just a few races...so turbo cool down time isnt really needed. you say that roots provide "nice cool air." sorry to breakt it to ou but when air is compressed it gets warmer. no way getting around that. however, turbos can be routed through an intercooler to cool their charge, roots blow that newly compressed extremely hot air directly into the intake manifold.
the ammount of backpressure a turbo gives is slim to none. it wouldnt raise cylender tempatures all too much and would give thoes engines the 600hp they are loosing from the roots back. and jsut ot let you know a turbo would be spooled in a top fule dragster all the way down the 1/4 mile because the enignes run at full throttle all the time and slippage and gearing are controlled by a COMPUTER controlling a clutch, so basically all a top fuler has to do is pull the throttle lever all the way back in the prestage and pull the engage gear as soon as he sees green....try to keep in a stright line and after the finish is crossed kill the engine and hit the chutes... wow that takes some balls but no skill besides reaction time.

and a word from the wise... stop cussing every other sentance. it makes you look (or proves that you are) immaure, moronic, and over all makes anyone who reads a few of your posts not even pay attention to any of your other postes because they get sick of it after a while. yes i do cuss sometimes but as you can see above there isnt one curse word and i got my correct point and point of view accross just fine. just be glad i didnt alert any mods of this rant and rave of yours. thouhg one is bound to see it soon anyway...but hopefully they will be lienient because of your noobness...

[Snow93]

jayson..your argument abotu me using the AC to cool air can rather easly be applied here.. with a super you suck back 200 hp lets say on a 1000hp engine... reason why a super is a better choice is becous usualy they can be litterlay bolted on and there done.. turbos take a bit more work, a bit more effort, and a bit more time.. as far as maintance.. well ebtween a super and a turbo its all loose loose tehre... car=maintance simple as that.

both the turbo and the super can blow well just about anything, and make maintance more nessacery when no tproperly desinged or installed. both can caus a slew of engine problems.. a turbo you havemore control over(the waist gate) supers its pullys.. read turbo's 101 right on the main board for FI.

[SaabJohan]

Did you know that jet engines have "blow off" (or more correctly bypass) valves too, to protect their compressors from surge?

The old roots leaked so much that they couldn't develope boost from low speed, today it's better but this can cause a difference in pressure ratio over the engine during the rpm range affecting the choice of cams and torque curve.
A supercharger does always affect the pressure ratio over the engine, which means that a supercharged engine may need a different set of cams.

Any forced induction engine also need heavy duty internals and usually a lower compression ratio as well as a modified fuel/management system. To fit a turbocharger with the exhaust manifold or the supercharger with the belt is the simple part when fitting forced induction to a NA engine.

Superchargers consume more power from the crankshaft of an engine compared to a turbocharged engine, which reduce the power somewhat because of the flow restriction caused by the turbine.
The adiabatic efficiency of the compressor itself depends on the type, centrifugal type superchargers have an adiabatic efficiency similar to a turbocharger compressor which is of the same type, that means up to around 80% efficiency. A roots can running with efficiencies around 50%. The lower the adiabatic efficiency is the hotter the intake air will become and the more power is needed to compress the air.

A roots is called a "blower" since it doesn't compress internally, it just feeds the air faster than the engine can consume it which cause an increase in boost while for example the centrifugal or the lysholm screw compressor compresses the air.