Cobalt vs. Celica GT-S

[drvngstorm05]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

Ok, The Cobalt is not a Redone Cavalier, and Pushrods are best for high performance engines, and cheaper to boot. High Tech doesn't always mean better.

ummm... the cobalt doesn't have a pushrod engine, its DOHC ecotec...

[TatII]

hmmm pushrods might be lighter and cheaper, but i wouldn't never go on saying its better for performance engines. you guys need displacement to make up the lack of flow from your 2 valve heads. one of teh best flowing push rod heads is the hemispherical heads, but its still a 2 valve design with one large intake valve and one small exhuast valve compare the surface area of the two valves combined and put it up agaisnt any average 4 valve per cylinder head of a similar size bore diameter and the 4 valve will always out flow the push rod's 2 valve heads. why do you think formula one doesn't use push rods in their 3-4 liter 800hp n/a engines? why do you think your 3.8 liter blown push rod v6 can't even make as much power as a n/a 3.5 liter dohc v6? or why do you think its so harsh to rev it to nears its redline compared to a silky smooth dohc v6?

[camaroincal]

Originally Posted by TatII

hmmm pushrods might be lighter and cheaper, but i wouldn't never go on saying its better for performance engines. you guys need displacement to make up the lack of flow from your 2 valve heads. one of teh best flowing push rod heads is the hemispherical heads, but its still a 2 valve design with one large intake valve and one small exhuast valve compare the surface area of the two valves combined and put it up agaisnt any average 4 valve per cylinder head of a similar size bore diameter and the 4 valve will always out flow the push rod's 2 valve heads. why do you think formula one doesn't use push rods in their 3-4 liter 800hp n/a engines? why do you think your 3.8 liter blown push rod v6 can't even make as much power as a n/a 3.5 liter dohc v6? or why do you think its so harsh to rev it to nears its redline compared to a silky smooth dohc v6?

The n/a 3.5 iter dohc cam engines are indeed very nice. They are also rather new technology. Whereas the 3.8 liter OHV is 10 year old technology. Also, these engines are tuned very differently. The 3.5 OHC is tuned more for performance (10.4 c.r./280 hp/approx. 20 mpg) whereas the 3.8 is tuned more for reliability/gas mileage (9.4 c.r./205 hp/approx. 25 mpg) It's all how you look at it. What if I turned it around and pointed out how a 10 year old V6 with .3 liter bigger displacement is getting 5 mpg better gas mileage (in a heavier car to boot) than the new tech. 3.5

[ricesucks]

Out of the two, I would take the celica. Just because I love the way they handle, I love the engines scream, and toyotas are bulletproof. Cobalt is faster, but the toyota is cooler, looks better, handles better, and would last longer IMO

[GForce957]

well back to the cobalt ss, it seems like its the exact same car as the Ion redline, and they both seem like lesser versions of the srt-4

[Vip09]

Originally Posted by jmrev

ive done 14.4, you see when mags test car they dont speed shift or go into red line, the celica vvtl-i kicks in at 6600 i think, so if you can drive to 8k rpm than you will get a fast time. I did this on a bone stock celica, let me find the site for stock times and ill get back at you.

What a tool. You say you drive a Celica GT-S, but you don't even know when lift starts or when the rev limiter is..

A stock Celica GT-S is not going to run 14.4 in stock trim.. it's not possible.. not going to happen!! If you were to do weight reduction and unbolt the stock exhaust.. it might be possible with an excellent driver. I could probably pull it off.. but I don't feel like driving 3 hours to a 1/4 mile track again just to prove something.

I think a stock GT-S with weight reduction, unbolted stock exhaust, and a ported stock header would be able to hit 14.4. That's the ONLY way a "stock" Celica will hit 14.4.

[OverAllComa]

To get a few things straight, The Cobalt SS is totally different from the Cavalier. The Cavalier is built on the J-Body platform while the Cobalt is built on the Delta-platform.

Also, its best to actually watch a dyno vid of the Cobalt SS, they're quite underrated from the factory. The video I recently saw has a Cobalt SS pushing around 215 and I think a few extra HP once they put in just a K&N.

As far as the comparison to the redline, it is warranted. The motor is basically the same except for a few tweaks. However, the platform is different and the Cobalt is just better made.

As for who would win, I'd prefer not to speculate, I'd rather see them race. Given that I'm a Chevy guy, you can guess where my bias would lie, but you just never really know.

[silentscreams85]

Vip has run like a 14.8 or 14.9 in a stock gts and has the time slips to prove it and he is a damn good driver the car runs about 15.4 stock...so dropping an entire second in the 1/4 is completely unbelievable

[Layla's Keeper]

Well, Cobalt SS's are proving to be competent handling, decently powerful sport coupes. The Celica had a reputation for good handling, but a peaky and practically useless powerband.

Guy I know went from an Acura Integra GS-R to a current gen Celica GT-S. That was the first time I'd ever heard someone pining for the broad torque curve of a HONDA.


As far as the pushrod versus overhead cam argument, let's first establish that DESMODROMIC valve actuation is in fact superior to both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve

Ducati uses this on their motorcycle engines, but in automotive use it stretches back to the infamous Miller/Offenhauser four cylinder that dominated Indy, winning the 500 24times from 1934 to 1960 (including sweeping the podium for the whole decade of the 50's). In turbocharged form inside of Gurney and McLaren chassis, the Offy extended its winning streak into the 70's even!

It was a 2.5L four cylinder that produced 420hp in friggin 1934! There's your superior American technology.




And, just so that we're not nationally biased - it should also be mentioned that the Mercedes W196's also had desmodromic valves.