I need to know which kit to buy, how to build it, and what color it should be

[freakray]

Originally Posted by MPWR

So why is it that when someone asks for an opinion that a number of people automaticly assume that the asker is hoping that a decision is going to be made for them? The way I see it, "build for yourself" is a useless and stupid answer. Why? I'd be willing to bet that there are very few, if in fact, any modelers here who don't already subscribe that idea. Face it- model building tends to attract people looking for an inividualistic form of self expression. This is why people on this forum build kits, as opposed to buy diecasts. So, the truth is, no matter how clever you think you are, and no matter how fast you can type it in, "build for yorself" is not an idea that hasn't occured to the person you're firing it off to. If they didn't already believe it, they wouldn't be here. And, with very few exeptions, people who ask questions are not looking for you, or anyone else, to decide how to do a model. They're not trying to be like you, they're not trying to fit in with you- they're just looking for opinions and ideas.

When I get a kit, I think for a while about how I want to build it. Yes, this is part of that "build for yourself" idea. Frequently, I like to have someone to discuss an idea I'm considering with. Fortunately, I'm blessed with a wife who has enough interest in cars and modeling that she's happy to discuss thoughts about a model (for those of you who don't have one, I highly recommend getting a wife who's into modeling! ). I'm not asking her to decide what I'm going to do- but when I'm considering if an F50 would look good in metallic, it's nice to have someone else who know's what an F50 is to discuss it with.

Maybe you "build for yourself"ers out there always know what you're going to do with a kit- or maybe you just build box stock all the time, and paint the body the same color as on the box. If not, why does it bother you so much that someone else, maybe with less experience than you, or maybe with much more, would want to discuss options for a kit they want to build? Guess what- this forum represents a terrific collection of people who love cars and love modeling. Lots of people, with lots of opinions. Not everyone has a friend or family member who cares enough about cars or models to have an opinion. So, if there's a huge established community on this forum, what's wrong with the occasional "hey, I'm looking for inspiration, anyone think this car would look cool with..." kind of question? Maybe this forum isn't an apropriate place to ask opinion questions. But if not, I can't see why! Care to explain?

So, if someone wants an opinion, what's it to you? If you don't have one or want to give one, then don't answer! It's not that tough- believe me, you don't have to every question posted here!

Some very interesting and good points

[mike@af]

All in all I think we all need to be more tolerant of the newbies. I admit I have been rather intolerant of the newbies lately and I am willing to change for the sake of the forum.

We scare off many excellent modelers. Instead of jumping the gun and immediately criticizing them for not reading, steer them in the right direction. Point them to the Tutorials, point them to the FAQ.

Sorry if I sound hypocritical, but I am willing to change and get this forum back on track.

[jswillmon]

Lets not forget that there is a feature on af that allows us to add members to our ignore list, If someone's questions are really that annoying just add them and you won't be botherd by them ever again.

[sweetwhiteCAV]

I dont even veiw the front page anymore, i go straight to the in-progress section, because the newbie crap posts are gettin out of control...

[tonioseven]

Originally Posted by MPWR

So why is it that when someone asks for an opinion that a number of people automaticly assume that the asker is hoping that a decision is going to be made for them? The way I see it, "build for yourself" is a useless and stupid answer. Why? I'd be willing to bet that there are very few, if in fact, any modelers here who don't already subscribe that idea. Face it- model building tends to attract people looking for an inividualistic form of self expression. This is why people on this forum build kits, as opposed to buy diecasts. So, the truth is, no matter how clever you think you are, and no matter how fast you can type it in, "build for yorself" is not an idea that hasn't occured to the person you're firing it off to. If they didn't already believe it, they wouldn't be here. And, with very few exeptions, people who ask questions are not looking for you, or anyone else, to decide how to do a model. They're not trying to be like you, they're not trying to fit in with you- they're just looking for opinions and ideas.

When I get a kit, I think for a while about how I want to build it. Yes, this is part of that "build for yourself" idea. Frequently, I like to have someone to discuss an idea I'm considering with. Fortunately, I'm blessed with a wife who has enough interest in cars and modeling that she's happy to discuss thoughts about a model (for those of you who don't have one, I highly recommend getting a wife who's into modeling! ). I'm not asking her to decide what I'm going to do- but when I'm considering if an F50 would look good in metallic, it's nice to have someone else who know's what an F50 is to discuss it with.

Maybe you "build for yourself"ers out there always know what you're going to do with a kit- or maybe you just build box stock all the time, and paint the body the same color as on the box. If not, why does it bother you so much that someone else, maybe with less experience than you, or maybe with much more, would want to discuss options for a kit they want to build? Guess what- this forum represents a terrific collection of people who love cars and love modeling. Lots of people, with lots of opinions. Not everyone has a friend or family member who cares enough about cars or models to have an opinion. So, if there's a huge established community on this forum, what's wrong with the occasional "hey, I'm looking for inspiration, anyone think this car would look cool with..." kind of question? Maybe this forum isn't an apropriate place to ask opinion questions. But if not, I can't see why! Care to explain?

So, if someone wants an opinion, what's it to you? If you don't have one or want to give one, then don't answer! It's not that tough- believe me, you don't have to every question posted here!

I'm a "build for yourselfer" but don't assume we all are unhelpful and rude; I can be at times but I'm a human being who makes no apologies unless I feel it would be beneficial to the forum as a whole. I look at it from the standpoint that too many builders fail to use their own creativity. If there's a way I can be of help, as I've said before, there are countless people that will tell you I'll do whatever I can to help. To me, "build for yourself" means to first make myself happy with the build, then all the rest will fall into place. It's cool to ask questions but it's also cool to use your own brasin to try new thing and figure things out. Try searching for tips and ideas from more sources than just AF. The internet can be a modeller's best resource if it's used correctly.

[Vric]

I think we are all nice people. If a newbee come and ask a question, we will help him. The problem is since one week, we have about 30 newbee asking all sort of question that could be found easily. This is why some of us getting mad.

I have never been rude (yet), I just point the answer in the Faq if it's there..

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by tonioseven

I look at it from the standpoint that too many builders fail to use their own creativity.

How so? Do you see models in the in progress/completed section that make you think, "hey, whoever built this isn't very creative"? Or do you see builds that look good, but you can identify where the builder got his ideas, and believe he either plagarized or someone else provided too much influence on the build?

I'm given to see that there's nothing really uncreative about modeling. I think it's pretty terrific that there's such an extensive community here of people exercising their creativity in this way, particularly considering the prepackaged nature of our society. Some people's inspirations are obvious (Fast & Furious, etc), some less so. Some like to build straight from the box, some like to nitpick and scratchbuild any component that isn't 'perfect'. Some are building models of cars they have, some are building models of cars they'd like to have, some are building cars never before seen that they think would look cool. Which of these builders is failing to use their own creativity?

In the process of building, some people will want to talk over thoughts or options for their build. I don't see what's wrong with this, or how this can be seen as lacking creativity. Why shouldn't discussing how a kit might or might not be built with other modelers be a part of the whole enjoyment of modeling? Can you show me someone who's used such a discussion as a way to bypass their own creativity, and build a kit the way someone told them to, because some one told them to?

I'll say it again- there is NO ONE here who isn't building for themselves. There is no one who isn't building the model they want, in the way they want to build it, for themselves, to the very best of their skill and ability. Not everyone's decision process when approaching a new model is the same- and like individual building styles, they shouldn't be the same, either. Why should it be seen that because someone wants to discuss paint colors or body kits, that their process is somehow less creative than those people who don't discuss their builds?

[freakray]

Originally Posted by MPWR

How so? Do you see models in the in progress/completed section that make you think, "hey, whoever built this isn't very creative"? Or do you see builds that look good, but you can identify where the builder got his ideas, and believe he either plagarized or someone else provided too much influence on the build?

Unfortunately, we have had builders that fit right into this description.
I am sure those of you that have been here long enough will recall exactly who I am referring to.

[tonioseven]

I've had a few models copied almost piece for piece and color for color. I agree with most of what you're saying and I truly respect your opinion but there have been many things that have happened here to give me the opinions that I have. I still stand by my words. I encourage everyone to excercise their creativity.

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

Originally Posted by tonioseven

I've had a few models copied almost piece for piece and color for color. I agree with most of what you're saying and I truly respect your opinion but there have been many things that have happened here to give me the opinions that I have. I still stand by my words. I encourage everyone to excercise their creativity.

When people are learning an art or a craft, many times the learning process involves copying something. Over time this gives them the skills that will help their own creativity in the long run; when they're more comfortable w/the tasks, then they'll start applying their own individual style. I hope you consider it flattery when someone "steals" your idea...as long as you did it first, that's all that really matters. I've seen a model built by someone before that made me want to build the same car in the same color, and I did. That said, I do try often to build a model that suits me first, but also is unique enough in color/style/options that it's not a copy of someone else's work.

Cooincidentally, Veyron sent me the following picture asking if it was inspiration for my green NISMO 350Z:


And my Z car:


Turns out the builder of the first model is Dave Weise. Dave is one of my oldest, best friends (unbeknownst to Veyron at the time). He got me back into models over 20 years ago, when we were newbies in design school and sometimes copying other people's work to help learn the craft. He's a Hot Wheels designer now. Neither one of us knew about either one's Z cars until Veyron sent me the picture! All I can say is great minds think alike. Same car, same paint, same rims.

[Vric]

I still prefer your Nismo ZoomZoom

[Honoturtle]

To me, I don't see anything wrong with "copying" a model. Just as long as you think it looks good and like it. So what if someone else built it first? What if I had planned to build a car a certain way that I like, then someone shows up and presents a completed model nearly exactly as I wanted to build mine, should I then change my model just because it was already done?

What if a modeler is stuck between the colors green and red for a model? Some can't afford to purchase the model twice to make both a green and a red model, so what's wrong with asking opinions on color options you like? Or maybe the modeler should take the time to phrase out, "I think the colors green and red would both look great on this model, but I'm having a hard time deciding which color I should use," rather than "I have this model, what color do you guys think I should paint it?"

As for "newbies," they need the time to learn the ropes. A lot of them are eager to learn and probably just wants their questions answered directly to them rather than looking in the FAQ, maybe it's a sort of comfort that makes it feel like it's the right answer, although in many cases there is more than one correct answer. Of course you want to put them in the right track by pointing out the FAQ, but what's the point of being on the right track if they're not moving! I guess it all ends up with "live and learn."

[doucmehu]

As a newbie (to this board) it is helpful when people post threads ansking questions not directly answered by the FAQ's. I wish they would learn to SEARCH though!! I rarely post despite visiting almost every day for the last few months, and have not needed to start one new topic. All in all, a majority of folks on this board are really helpful and kind (with the exception of GTMike, hehe just kidding)

[blueboost]

yes we should have patience w/ the noobs. at the same time, we aren't all newbs and if we want to attract and keep professional modelers on these boards we need to have a certain level of professionalism and moderate the garbage that rolls through here frequently.

wheres p-man? gone. whats up with tonio? seems like he's all but flipped out; gone from a nice sig to "im tired of the crap and Im coming for you".
yadda yadda

edit- this is the modeling site on the net. Everyone's been a newb at some point. I've said things I wish I hadn't. -hell, I'm editing this post days after posting it. I'd remove it but its been read so whats the point everyone already knows im wierd

Point is -lets model.

[blueboost]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

Cooincidentally, Veyron sent me the following picture asking if it was inspiration for my green NISMO 350Z:


And my Z car:


Turns out the builder of the first model is Dave Weise. Dave is one of my oldest, best friends (unbeknownst to Veyron at the time). He got me back into models over 20 years ago, when we were newbies in design school and sometimes copying other people's work to help learn the craft. He's a Hot Wheels designer now. Neither one of us knew about either one's Z cars until Veyron sent me the picture! All I can say is great minds think alike. Same car, same paint, same rims.

I love coincedence's like that. See thats one thing I bet you'll never forget! and it was here on AF