Fahrenheit 9/11

[YogsVR4]

have a couple


http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/23542.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/#ContinueArticle

[Pick]

Originally Posted by taranaki

I've yet to see anyone in the know dare stand up and call him a liar.

Okay, he is a damn liar!

[DGB454]

The more I read about Moore the more disgusted I am with him. I grew up and worked in and around Flint nearly all my life. Some of the BS Moore slung about Flint in his first attempt at making money on propaganda was amusing at best. You shrug it off and just realize he is someone trying to make money from people wanting to escape the reality of the day. That's the way Hollywood operates so it's not a big deal. I always assumed people were smart enough to see he is just another clown in the circus trying to make us laugh. Who would have thought people would would actually believe everything he tells them? Who would have believed that the same people who keep saying "GWB is a liar and everything he says is a lie" are the same people who buy everything MM is selling? I guess I always thought those people would be the ones who were the cynics among us. Who knew?

[tenguzero]

Michael Moore's films resonate (or resignate, as Bush would say ) with the people. He's garnering lots of animosity and distrust toawrds the current administration because he's got a good, effective formula. That's the problem with the republican party as it stands in power right now: they do NOT -repeat- DO NOT know how to relate to the people. And the only time Bush does seem to show any ability to bring it down to the average Joe's level, and stir up emotions in him, it's when he's dressed in a damn Air Force jumpsuit, and belting out a cry for more money to be thrown at the military, or playing on people fears of WMD's that haven't been found yet (not even a TRACE) or shaking his fist in the air and threatening retribution for terrorist acts, commited by groups that we can't pin down until they come knocking at OUR front door. Moore succeeds, because he gives the people justification, vindication, and a concrete, right-in-front-of-their-face event. Slanted towards his cause? Sure. But at least he's got something TANGIBLE out there. Moore knows how to relate to and tap into the resources and media that work for the people. The GOP does NOT. And when they do, and Bush and his advisors get up in front of the people to communicate to them, all they spout is vague warnings about potential threats, claims of a "recovering economy" that I, and VAST numbers of like-minded recent graduates still have yet to see, and generally a lot of promises but no answers.

[TexasF355F1]

http://www.billoreilly.com/currentar...2xU!-593243196

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

Michael Moore's films resonate (or resignate, as Bush would say ) with the people. He's garnering lots of animosity and distrust toawrds the current administration because he's got a good, effective formula. That's the problem with the republican party as it stands in power right now: they do NOT -repeat- DO NOT know how to relate to the people. And the only time Bush does seem to show any ability to bring it down to the average Joe's level, and stir up emotions in him, it's when he's dressed in a damn Air Force jumpsuit, and belting out a cry for more money to be thrown at the military, or playing on people fears of WMD's that haven't been found yet (not even a TRACE) or shaking his fist in the air and threatening retribution for terrorist acts, commited by groups that we can't pin down until they come knocking at OUR front door. Moore succeeds, because he gives the people justification, vindication, and a concrete, right-in-front-of-their-face event. Slanted towards his cause? Sure. But at least he's got something TANGIBLE out there. Moore knows how to relate to and tap into the resources and media that work for the people. The GOP does NOT. And when they do, and Bush and his advisors get up in front of the people to communicate to them, all they spout is vague warnings about potential threats, claims of a "recovering economy" that I, and VAST numbers of like-minded recent graduates still have yet to see, and generally a lot of promises but no answers.

So you identify with and generally believe what MM says? Or are you ("and the VAST number of like-minded recent graduates") just into his "slanted" hype because he's "got a good effective formula"?

Before you answer I just want to make clear that I am not a supporter of Bush or some of his policies.(so don't pigeon hole me) Nor am I a supporter of Kerry.(reguardless of his policies)

[tenguzero]

Nope. I'm not saying I believe all of what he says, what I'm saying, is that he has a very effective way of getting his message across, which is why people who aren't really the kind to take the time to do their own research into what is behind the spin, from BOTH sides, are more likely to relate with what MM says -- because of the way he says it.

Let's face it, America LOVES drama (look at why all these stupid "Reality" TV shows are so popular) because the portrayal of events to music, and hardship, and all other human experiences creates a bridge for them. I'm willing to bet that more people tune into "American Idol" than a presidential address, because suits and podiums and the same rhetoric over and over again, without any immediate satisfaction, are tiresome. Moore's films leave people thinking, and talking, even if they don't end up going any further than that (like to do research, for instance.) Addresses by the President and various White House staff, about the same things they've been preaching for years, don't. Unless there is some immediate benefit for the people. And right now, I'm not seeing any benefits of all this administration has been talking about, for myself OR the people close to me. Sure, it's more difficult for the president (being the leader of the country) to achieve results than it is Michael Moore, giving Moore the benefit of being on the outside looking in. But hey, nobody said running the damn United States of America was going to be easy, though I would have expected to see more of a benefit for Americans than we have up to this point.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by taranaki

I've yet to see anyone in the know dare stand up and call him a liar.

Originally Posted by Pick

Okay, he is a damn liar!

Thank you Pick, but you don't qualify.

[Pick]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Thank you Pick, but you don't qualify.

How am I not in the know? Have you read any of the articles that have been posted about the movie? I know I have. So,as of right now, you sir,are not in the know.

[2strokebloke]

Then, why is he a liar? You read the articles, so I'm sure you know.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by DGB454

So if you were president.(Yes,I'm having a hard time saying that with a straight face) You would bother to deny or even acknowledge Moore?
You wouldn't see that as a mistake? That's like giving credibility to what he says.

You really need to stick with the original premise that you argued...

Originally Posted by DGB454

There are more important things to worry about than what Moore thinks about you or writes about you..

The President's campain managers would be foolish to ignore the potential effect that Mr Moore could have on their campaign. If "Fahrenheit 9/11" has the capability to influence sufficent numbers of armchair liberals to actually vote instead of just sitting at home on election day,it could change the resault of the election.Both major contenders have polled in the target area,this is likely to be a very close contest,which is why there is soo much animosity and mud-slinging.

If Bush's advisers have any intelligence or facts that contradicts any of the claims that Mr Moore has made ,they'd be foolish not to use it.Otherwise Bush is just standing there wearing it,and mud sticks.

This will be a very difficult campaign for Bush's advisors to manage.When an incumbent government is strong,and popular, and making progress,it will lay out its achievements in black and white in defence of its tenure...Something along the lines of "long term unemployment down x%, budget in surplus by xmillion dollars,Crime statistics down by x percent,x% of Americans better off as a direct result of tax cuts,x% more manufacturing jobs for Americans........

But clearly, Bush has nothing in the trophy cabinet.He can only rely on the wooly patriotism of his failed Middle East intervention as an achievement.It is the opposition who normaly have to try and win by chipping away at the credibility of the incumbent.Bush's camp know that they don't have any viable achievements on which to campaign,so they have turned to the tactics of the challenger in the hopes that nobody will notice.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Pick

How am I not in the know? Have you read any of the articles that have been posted about the movie? I know I have. So,as of right now, you sir,are not in the know.

Based on the ebvidence that I have seen in in this forum,I am assuming that you know absolutely nothing but blind prejudice.Nowhere have you ever attempet to justify the inane comments that you have posted here,and the level of your 'arguments' rarely rises above kindergarten name-calling.If you have,as claimed studied the subject[and watching the damn movie would be as good a place to start as any],then,do feel free to enlighten us with the train of thought that has led you to your absolute conviction that you know everything there is to know on the subject.


Or,you could continue to post your silly little one sentence posts without any substance,and the rest of us will continue to dismiss them as being of no consequence.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by taranaki

This will be a very difficult campaign for Bush's advisors to manage.When an incumbent government is strong,and popular, and making progress,it will lay out its achievements in black and white in defence of its tenure...Something along the lines of "long term unemployment down x%, budget in surplus by xmillion dollars,Crime statistics down by x percent,x% of Americans better off as a direct result of tax cuts,x% more manufacturing jobs for Americans........

Naki under the 3 years of Bush my year pay has gone up 8K US dollars, I pay less taxes now then under Clinton. Last year The government sent me a check for 1200 US dollars as a tax credit. Our local newspaper is full of job openings. SO I can say my situation has improved under Bush. Bush will always be remembered for Iraq but he did give me more of my money back.

As for Moore Bush wil never speak of him. Sometimes its better to ignore it then give some sense of Moore being right(if he was right and I am not saying that).

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

have a couple


http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/23542.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/#ContinueArticle

http://www.nypress.com/17/26/news&co...MattTaibbi.cfm

Criticising the critcs proves very little.An answer from the target of the original criticism would be far,far more telling.But the Bush camp won't answer,because they have nothing with which to make a credible denial.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by taranaki

make a credible denial.

Credible denial will only add to the fire making it bigger than it should be. Saying nothing will lessen the impact of Moore's lies. If Bush made a statement Moore would be sitting there saying "See I told you so, it must be true"