Did i make a mistake???

[kenchan]

you should try playing around with the stiffness on the rear if you are getting too much understeer...or get better tires. for the street na's work fine, the're not GREAT!!! but they're good enough...the dampers dont have nearly the capacity of a performance setup, but again, these are for dressup purposes like wat it says.

yah, cutting the bumpstops will probably improve the ride, but id probably raise the front 2perches up (approx 10mm)before I try dat.

[P10DET]

Originally posted by Mrcoilover
I don't know man. I think you have it out for Tein's even though you do own them. Anywayz, I am very pleased.

Dude, I hate to say this, but what other reference point do you have?

First off I'd be inclined to listen to Boogie since he has some experience with both the Tein's and GC/Konis. Second, what he is saying goes along with everything I've heard about Konis (but admittedly have not experienced on a G).

One thing I know for sure that makes a difference is bottoming. Makes for a shitty ride.

[P10DET]

Originally posted by b-b00gie
Springs should be the major controller of your ride quality, not adjustable shocks.

Not quite. I'm not trying to tweak your nose here Boogie. You're really close. Just trying to fill in the blanks.

Springs should set the stiffness of the suspension, rather than the dampers. I think that is part of what you are trying to get at. IOW, you don't want to make the dampers do the work of the springs. But (and here's the big but.....) dampers generally have more to do with ride quality (and performance as well). It's quite possible to have a stiffer set of springs ride better than a softer set, depending upon the dampers.

Let me go a little further. A spring will not only resist compression, but it will also want to rebound equally as quickly (for our purposes, we'll ignore insignificant losses through heat energy). Now, the resistance of the spring can make for an uncomfortable ride, but usually not. Most of the jarring under compression is a result of bottoming as you have accurately written.

But.... what IMHO affects the ride quality more is the control of the springs rather than the resistance of the springs themselves (and surprisingly enough, that also controls performance to a huge degree).

IMHO Japanese dampers have too much compression damping and not enough rebound damping. Not so surprisingly, Konis tend to be a little better balanced in this regard. What you want is for the spring to absorb the bump, but you don't want it to bounce back too quickly or you will get that sudden, brief, "floaty" feeling. IMHO, that (next to bottoming) has the biggest effect on ride. Now, too much rebound damping and make the dampers never fully rebound over a series of bumps until there is no ride height left and the ride sucks. But, you generally won't find that on a road damper.

So, with good damping characteristics, a good compromise on ride height/suspension travel, relatively stiff springs can still yield a very good ride. The ride in my G with the AGX/GCs 275/200 is surprisingly close to stock. The car still bottoms a bit too much, but I think when I finally install the Koni bump rubbers it'll be OK. It's just a bit too low IMHO as well, but I have it as high as it will go (still a good drop). I think when I can finally get around to installing some Konis (after I have my race car on the track and sorted) the ride will be truly outstanding. But, I cannot say for certain.

Donster has written quite a bit about the Konis as well. I know some folks don't like the idea of using P10 fronts and B14 rears, but his works and Don A) knows his suspension shit pretty well, B) had a P10 with Konis as well for a benchmark, C) lives in CA and hangs with the SERCA folks and has a lot of opportunity to experience a variety of suspensions.

Originally posted by b-b00gie
If you're looking for a performance setup I would not recommend Teins. If you are looking to lower your car and have a better ride than Eibach/Stock, HKS/Stock or Intrax/Stock, then yes I'd say the Teins are for you.

I can only go by what I've read, and from that it still sounds like the GC/AGX or GC/Koni set-up would be better than teh Teins for ride as well and for probably a similar price.

But, I'm forming an unbiased opinion from what I've read. I've never experienced the Teins or the Koni/GC before.

[b-b00gie]

Originally posted by P10DET


Not quite. I'm not trying to tweak your nose here Boogie. You're really close. Just trying to fill in the blanks.

Springs should set the stiffness of the suspension, rather than the dampers. I think that is part of what you are trying to get at.

Hehe yep!

As I was writing that I thought... hmm thats not the best way to put it. But yeah the key word I missed way "stiffness". The springs should set the stiffness, not adjusting your shocks to be "stiffer". The shocks should control how fast the springs return to zero oscillation(sp?).

...is that better? ...getting warmer, LOL


btw, no offense taken, tweak away! thats what we're here for: learning from one another.

[GoldP11]

I have a question that does not relate to this issue, but since I see the quotes here, How do you ad the "Originally posted by _____ " thing when you take a quote from a previous post? Do you just type it in?

[b-b00gie]

In the bottom right corner of someones post there is a link that says "quote". Click that and it'll do it automatically.

[poppy_morenito]

I have a P10 with AGX and Intrax the look is AWESOME but if you hit a bump in the road you will be bouncing. I am going to get Ground Controls ..... I am told old to be BOBBLE HEAD SHAWN anymore !!!

[Beige4dr]

Originally posted by P10DET

....IMHO Japanese dampers have too much compression damping and not enough rebound damping. Not so surprisingly, Konis tend to be a little better balanced in this regard. What you want is for the spring to absorb the bump, but you don't want it to bounce back too quickly or you will get that sudden, brief, "floaty" feeling. IMHO, that (next to bottoming) has the biggest effect on ride......

....The ride in my G with the AGX/GCs 275/200 is surprisingly close to stock. The car still bottoms a bit too much, but I think when I finally install the Koni bump rubbers it'll be OK. It's just a bit too low IMHO as well, but I have it as high as it will go (still a good drop). I think when I can finally get around to installing some Konis (after I have my race car on the track and sorted) the ride will be truly outstanding. But, I cannot say for certain.......

Amen brother! What he said!

My stock dampers were a little worn at 115K so I replaced them with AGXs (foolishly leaving the stock springs in). I wasn't happy with the ride and mistakenly thought the AGXs had somehow made the ride too stiff. After further contemplation, I was convinced that it was the progressive rate stock springs being mismatched to the dampers. I also wanted to put on some bigger wheels and couldn't clear the AGX spring perches so I went out and got some Ground Controls. I wisely (finally, or maybe just luckily) did a little research and based largely on George's advice went with 300/225s. After a little hassle with incorrect parts and bad monkey skills got my car skidding around the streets again. I was initially dissapointed thinking that the 300/225s were too stiff and was hoping to swap someone for 275/200s. I have been playing with the AGXs and as I moved up from 1/1 other settings the ride has gotten better (I think the rebound damping is finally matching the spring rate). The compression part of the ride is better than stock and the rebound is now tolerable. I am lowered a good amount and I don't notice bottoming out when I would expect it (like a close series of progressively bigger bumps), but have felt the bubble head slam of bottoming out on some high speed big dips. I think the AGXs lighter rebound damping gets the car back up to a good height after a bump (with the somewhat uncomfortable low-G feeling).

So I need to get some Koni bumpstops, fix a few rattles and I will be a happy guy.

[Mrcoilover]

You always know I gotta say something. All my life I thought that GC's were always bouncy, no matter what. hmmmm . Yall are all hyping the Ground Controls up and everything and thats cool. I am happy with my Tein's because they give me what I wanted . A nice low drop with good ride quality. Hands down, the Tein's at a 1.7 inch drop has a good ride and takes bumps just as well as it did with stock suspension:silly2: . If I wanted performance, I might have gotten some GC's, but I don't plan on putting any more work into my car other than Rims/System/Suspension:buck:. Too all who had their mind on Tein's....they are good if you want a good drop with good ride. Take my word for it. Look at my name.:finger: