SOHC ZC vs DOHC ZC

[Melt]

at least all that money my "momy and dady" spent on college (which isnt all that much, i got scholarships) taught me how to spell

whats this great trasmition setup youre puttin in with the zc? is it like a special way of changing gears thats different than a TRANSMISSION

[D15Bitch]

Originally Posted by SiZ

I'm a SOHC hater, not D series. I had a DOHC ZC before.

D15Bitch - I was under the impression that a SOHC ZC is not much more than a D16A6 with maybe a few more HP. So say that there is a 13-15hp difference between the two engines, you're not going to make up for that with $400 in bolt-ons. (intake and exhaust) I'd spend the extra money and get a DOHC, then go from there.
C'mon man.. All of Hondas cars that were made to go fast have been DOHC since like 85.

You can't all keep comparing the ZC SOHC with a D16A6. Not the same engine. It appears to be the same, but it is not. It is a ZC engine run with a single cam. But that cam is much more aggressive than the D16A6 cam, and the internals (rods & pistons) are the same as used in the ZC DOHC. Thus it is a much stronger engine. Better for modding. Remember, D16A6 = 108HP?

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/

Now, visit the above link, choose the civic line-up, for 4th gen, go to sedans, and look at the specs for the 4G4D. Look at the specs of the RTi or RTi AWD.

If you need to, translate the page using:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Yes, you are not dreaming, those specs for the SOHC ZC in those 4G4D's say that those engines pushed out 120HP....stock

Then come back and tell me the ZC SOHC is not a sohc performance engine... 5-7 HP less than the first generation of SOHC Vtecs...

[Setanta]

I don't buy the "more moving parts = more chance of breakdown, sorry".

Not with a Honda anyway - other companies yeah, I might agree.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but my SiR has 254,000kms on it now - 80,000 of them put on me. That's a car that was a road-racer in japan (got the info from it's original owner on its history finally). It was treted the same as I treat it. I thrash the crap out of it - it regularly sees 8000rpm - and also does 2000km + interstate runs in Australian climate which is one of extremes. It's still going strong.

I'm not calling BS - but in my experience, the B16A is the best motor I've driven in terms of reliability in 19 years of driving experience.

Oh - and I know a bit about building D series too - I ran a 132bhp modified EW2 (D series precurser 12 valve) in one of my first gens.

ZC = good, B16A = better IMO

VTEC is about economy/power. You get to choose. No lumpy cams etc. Nice linear torque curve for efficient delivery throughout the powerband, even at VTEC engagement.

Horses for courses, but I'll take a B series engine over a D any day of the week.

[Setanta]

Originally Posted by Melt

at least all that money my "momy and dady" spent on college (which isnt all that much, i got scholarships) taught me how to spell

Like you've never made a typo

Not even I'm that lame Melt

Then again, it was a cheap shot about college ed

[95civicman]

Originally Posted by D15Bitch

and the internals (rods & pistons) are the same as used in the ZC DOHC. Thus it is a much stronger engine. Better for modding. Remember, D16A6 = 108HP?

the zc rods are anything but stong and reliable, i've seen many people throw a 50 shot on there(a couple with FPR, upgraded ignition, and the fuel safty switch thing.) and snap them right in half, also i've seen my own zc rod and if looks like I could snap it in half.

[91civichatch2571]

the rods can only handle up to about 200hp before they bust.

[TheNotoriousMogg]

Originally Posted by Setanta

I don't buy the "more moving parts = more chance of breakdown, sorry".

Not with a Honda anyway - other companies yeah, I might agree.

Now I'm no rocket scientist, but my SiR has 254,000kms on it now - 80,000 of them put on me. That's a car that was a road-racer in japan (got the info from it's original owner on its history finally). It was treted the same as I treat it. I thrash the crap out of it - it regularly sees 8000rpm - and also does 2000km + interstate runs in Australian climate which is one of extremes. It's still going strong.

there you have it folks ... someone with a high mileage b16 and its still goin strong ... how many zc's see those kinds of miles without a rebuild? Im a little worried about my sohc now that d15bitch says it has all the same parts ... i got about 70k on it now.

And yes i know i dont spell stuff all the time right ... but i can spell some simple words like transmission, failure, and design correctly.

melt asked me to post this for him

[fredthedragon]

Originally Posted by Setanta

Like you've never made a typo

Not even I'm that lame Melt

Then again, it was a cheap shot about college ed

i'm sorry but in my personal openion not being an expert but i believe he forgot to take into consideration the amount of compression the block and head were designed to withstand, not to mention the added strain on the crankshaft and bearings. think about how much more power you could pull out of a b16 for the same money and the same time of advancements. not to mention 170 hp from a 2gb16a. according to my friend (who shall remain nameless, but one i depend on for his infinite VTEC and suspension knowledge, from intensive research and expert friends, and is buying a 98-01 GS-R. also, don't take any shots at this guy as he is just an innocent bystander.) "two more points: first off, the VTEC system merely consists of the rocker arms, an oil-pressure activated solenoid, and 8 pins that lock the 3-piece rocker arms together. not to mention the cams and the redesigned valve cover. second of all, the transition to VTEC-land is smooth. now, when you open up the intake, header, and exhaust, the transition to VTEC-land CAN BE HEARD AND FELT SLIGHTLY, but it is still Honda-smooth. now in the case of the late, great B18C1, you can actually hear the secondaries in the intake manifold opening up (5300 IIRC) after the VTEC point (4700, again, IIRC). just some food for thought."

[Melt]

well said.

whoo i can post in this thread now! I dunno what the story was earlier but i kept getting an error everytime ... so i hadda have mogg do it for me.

[HONDABOND]

Originally Posted by Melt

youre right ... i dont know all that much. But hondabond has been here before under a >differnet< username. He has made all sorts of >overexegerated< claims about the dohc zc. >And< while he may speak "Of" >a< bunch of technical jargon about engine components, and actually work on his motor and >probably< have a badass setup"," his zc isnt even in his car yet, and once in, >probably< wont last very long cause "I" >i< bet hes "He's" too stupid to break it in.

I have also heard many stories about unreliable dohc zc's from many people on this and other forums. The only guy "I" >i< know who has yet to have any problems with his dohc zc is '91hatch' and that is because his engine is >fairly< stock with bolt ons.

So ... based on everything "I" >i< have read on this and other forums, I am going to stick with my original comment, that a b16 is likely more reliable than a dohc zc.

Um, if you know how to spell so well... What the hell is this?
Care to make more of an ass of yourself?

[SiZ]

You guys still talkin' bout cars!?

[HONDABOND]

Also, the B16 Heads are awsome. Especialy when you use vtec killer cams and roller rockers. I bet you anything I can run a B16 head harder and longer with the vtec disactivated using some roller rockers and vtec killer cams.
I can have a bunch of people come in here and agree with me (Just like Mr.Melt) but the plain and simple fact is that metal wears down. The more moving metal there is the more parts get worn and something breaks. Like how about vtec engagement pins? Every time you hit VTEC a little pin gets pushed through three rocker arms @ 5700 RPMs...

[fredthedragon]

i believe all car questions were answered and all that remains is for someone to get tired of trying to squeeze in the last word, you know who you are.

so let's just all chill out and have a couple and some ritual homicide

[Setanta]

Originally Posted by HONDABOND

...I can have a bunch of people come in here and agree with me (Just like Mr.Melt) but the plain and simple fact is that metal wears down. The more moving metal there is the more parts get worn and something breaks. Like how about vtec engagement pins? Every time you hit VTEC a little pin gets pushed through three rocker arms @ 5700 RPMs...

Did you even bother to read my post?

When you have a 13yo car that has run a B16A from factory release, then feel free to expound on your theories. For me you're simple talking half-assed theory backed up with a healthy dose of no-experience.

BTW - it's 5400, not 5700.

[HONDABOND]

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