Promocom Toy group Ferrari 126C2 scale 1:8

[rallymaster]

Hi Tony,

in fact the Bugatti info was for the previous poster but of course if you need some help, too...

I say never because I know I really would never buy such price models, it's a question of sens for me. Buying some hobby items that cost 3 months of french minimum salary is not something I would do... knowing some people will never get this money to simply live ! As I would never buy 15000 euros shoes or a 1500 euros shirt...! Even if I was billionair.
That's why I can and do say never, I know that it's true and will always be, depending of my personal living philosophy and not only on the money I have.
I think that things have a limited cost, according to what their prices can allow modest people to buy with...
But that said, thinking to it, buying one exceptionnal very expensive jewel model or buying dozens of normal price ones...
End result is quite the same, and I also spent this price diluted in several models whereas I would never have spent this price in one model...
Question of ethics and personal living philosophy, but surely not a kind of criticism to the ones that pay such price.
I was simply saying I would never do that myself, and I know I would, and also know why I said that.

It will be a real pleasure and enjoyment to follow the build of such a model though.
Really impressive realism for what we could see of it now.

[Twowheelsrule]

Buying a expensive model is no different that buying a Bass boat or hunting gear when it would cost a lot less just to go to the store and buy your food there.

It is a hobby and it is going to cost money. You just have to figure out what you are willing to spend to reach your goals. To each their own on what that means to them.

That being said this Ferrari model is probably the most detailed model I have ever seen.

Mark

[bmwmech1]

Ton, you know how envious I am of you that you have this kit to build, but I will follow this thread with anticipation and offer any help you might need to complete it. It is a shame Barry has not come through for you, but you will be fine nonetheless... I will wait for more updates...

Happy Holidays to you and yours, my friend,

Garey

[tony126c2]

Question of ethics and personal living philosophy, but surely not a kind of criticism to the ones that pay such price.

No problem my friend ...I respect you philosophy for life But it is not as expensive as it looks E.g I build the Pocher F40 with the transkit by Autograph. I spent 650 hours building and probably half of that time studying how to build this model. The prize of the car and transkit was €1800. The costs per hour were......€2.77 When I play tennis or golf ...or go skiing I probably spent more than € 2.77 an hour and I could sell it for € 5000/6000 euro´s (which I will not do !)

@Garey

offer any help you might need to complete it

Thanks Garey much appreciated! I probably need the help of your resistance soldering device How is the F40 coming along?

Happy holidays

Ton

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by Twowheelsrule

Buying a expensive model is no different that buying a Bass boat or hunting gear when it would cost a lot less just to go to the store and buy your food there.

Hi Mark,
Ok, but just notice that buying models isn't as much necessary than buying food !!

Originally Posted by Twowheelsrule

It is a hobby and it is going to cost money.

What doesn't mean it inevitably has to cost "too much money" compared to all people who even can't have any hobby or what such a price represent for most of the people...

Reading you and some others here and there (and myself as much when I see what I sometimes spend) I'm really wondering if some of us still consider and realize that we are a kind of privileged ones being able to spend hundreds of dollars/euros in such a hobby...
That's what makes me questionning about the sens of my hobby sometimes (as when I read the price of that model), and may have I to be punished for that :sarcasm1: I did the mistake to share my own introspection...

Originally Posted by Twowheelsrule

You just have to figure out what you are willing to spend to reach your goals. To each their own on what that means to them.

Precisely ! And that's why some people can't understand (and they probably are right) why some of us can spend 3 months of salary for a scale model !!
I'm not trying to make people feel guilty of their hobby and purchases, that's just the fact that some values given here and there tend to put things back to their places in my mind...
I think (and I really say "I" ) that such prices aren't reasonable regarding to what such a value represents for most of the people...
I was only giving my opinion, I don't want to convert anyone, I also spent a lot of money (and feel enough "guilty" for that when I think to what else I could have done with...), but I simply refuse, to be in peace with my consciousness and personal living philosophy, to spend 3 months of french garanted minimum salary (and just to precise it and erase any doubt in what I'm sauing by chance and a lot of work I earn several times more... So it's not to me a question of "buying power") in a scale model or any kind of hobby item. That's what I call "To each their own on what that means to them" applied to myself.

Originally Posted by Twowheelsrule

That being said this Ferrari model is probably the most detailed model I have ever seen.
Mark

For sure this model worse the money.

Originally Posted by tony126c2

No problem my friend ...I respect you philosophy for life But it is not as expensive as it looks

That's here that our points of view are different...
I don't see the time rate, I see the price !

Originally Posted by tony126c2

E.g I build the Pocher F40 with the transkit by Autograph. I spent 650 hours building and probably half of that time studying how to build this model. The prize of the car and transkit was €1800. The costs per hour were......€2.77 When I play tennis or golf ...or go skiing I probably spent more than € 2.77 an hour and I could sell it for € 5000/6000 euro´s (which I will not do !)

I understand what you want to show (number of hobby praticing hours such price represents), but I also see it by another sight: in this case, no matter what the time you spend is, price paid still is the same, it doesn't change, and what it could allow to buy still is the same too...
Moreover such a time rate comparison will be more correct IMO if you consider buying the finished model. But this is a kit, so the time doesn't reduce the price but increases it because it's your time needed to build it !
I hope you see what I mean myself, cos' once more it's not a kind of criticism or discreditation or polemic, only a kind of too loud expressed personal introspection reacting to the price given. Probably my humane fibre that regularly makes me feel guilty to have a so expensive hobby...

And where I agree with you though, is that there are many other hobbies (like skying for example ) that cost much more per hour if you make the time rate comparison.
And of course, if you consider the number of practicing hours a $4500 scale model kit will give you compared to a $4500 skying week or rallying... You're right then !


Anyway, expensive or not, too much or not (what finaly is a question of personal opinion), this model really seems to worse the money
And sometimes I'm wondering if a limited number of such ones wouldn't be better than dozens of other ones (if only they all ended being built once - another problem that) which finaly cost quite the same...

[CrateCruncher]

I think in the US we are trained by our television commercials to hyper-consume before we're old enough to walk. I was at a Paris hobby show a few years back where I picked up a bunch of things not available in the States. I was having a great time. But late in the day, as I was walking through the crowds of people, I suddenly realized I was the only person carrying anything purchased! Heck, when I go to shows in the States I have to fight my way in against a crowd of guys piling out of the building with stacks of kits to store in their cars so they can go back in to buy more! Weird huh?

I think it's only when we spend time outside our native culture that we realize how much it influences our attitudes and behavior.

[Twowheelsrule]

Sorry to continue to jack the thread but, I just wanted to say I respect and enjoy everyone's opinions.... Rallymaster you are OK by me, I was just stating my opinion towards the hobby. I do get buyers remorse sometimes just buying Tamiya stuff the way the prices have went up.

Mark

[tony126c2]

Hi Phil,

in this case, no matter what the time you spend is, price paid still is the same, it doesn't change, and what it could allow to buy still is the same too...

OK Phil I understand your point ...but we probably would have had the same discussion about buying a car, a boat and other necessities we don´t need primarily in life. My philosophy is that (without going to the details) no matter what you spend on yourself ...never, never forget people who are much less privileged as you are

@Garey

I think that in Europe we learned "consuming" also

Ton

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by Twowheelsrule

I just wanted to say I respect and enjoy everyone's opinions.... Rallymaster you are OK by me
Mark

Don't worry, either do I !


At the end, after reading all posted comments and reactions, it seems that our way to practice hobby isn't much different than any consuming behaviour...
I was a bit afraid that with the use of buying (+ or - trained to consume ) some of us even don't react anymore to what prices paid and money spent represent...
I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only one to question myself about it, I've been the only one to react so loud in the middle of a thread that wasn't made for this, so sorry if sharing my point of view made this thread take another way that the original expected, but It is nice to share more than builds to me, as finally we are all concerned by the same things (money, time, etc), with different ranges and point of views perhaps, but core of our hobby is the same.

[bmwmech1]

Originally Posted by tony126c2

Thanks Garey much appreciated! I probably need the help of your resistance soldering device How is the F40 coming along?

Happy holidays

Ton

I have still not started building, yet... too many things going on to get into my workshop just yet, but soon! I have played around a little with the Pocher Porsche GT2 project and have been collecting resources and materials for another project, which I may or may not start... we'll see. I do look at the F40 almost everyday and think about the next steps in the build, so it is on my mind, for sure... just have not had the time...

Garey

[tony126c2]

I do look at the F40 almost everyday and think about the next steps in the build, so it is on my mind, for sure.

Than you are vitually building ....gives the best results

[tony126c2]

In the last couple of weeks I made a nice progress on reproducing the missing parts of the gearbox. It is not finished yet but there is enough to show

On this picture all the reproduced parts are shown. The part in the middle is the "collar" between engine and gearbox housing. It is made out of plastic for the right measures but will be reproduced in brass because of the weight on both sides. The blue square show the parts from the kit which are the reference for reproducing the missing parts



A dryfit is shown from the reproduced parts and the picture in the left corner shows the original without missing parts :evil:



regards

Ton

[cinqster]

Hi Tony,

Great build so far & really looking forward to seeing the rest of the WIP.

How are you going to make the "collar" piece in brass? Cast or machined? I guess machined, as brass is an absolute pig of a material to cast - if you need some help to cast it give me a shout, and I'll probably put you off the idea!

I'm intrigued by Rallymasters posts about the initial cost. I must admit that $4500 would just about get you enough workshop equipment to reproduce this kit at a lower price (I think of all kit prices nowadays in terms of useful workshop equipment!). I'd be tempted to do such a thing just to give that Berry guy the kick up the ass he deserves, if he treats customers like this!

Good luck with the build, but bare in mind if you make too good a job, you'll be promoting that idiots products!

[tony126c2]

Thanks Cinqster for your kind words

How are you going to make the "collar" piece in brass? Cast or machined? I guess machined, as brass is an absolute pig of a material to cast - if you need some help to cast it give me a shout, and I'll probably put you off the idea!

I am going to solder it, I have a "mould" for the engine side and one for the gearbox side...brass tubing in the middle en than closing the piece with brass or plastic ??

I'm intrigued by Rallymasters posts about the initial cost. I must admit that $4500 would just about get you enough workshop equipment to reproduce this kit at a lower price (I think of all kit prices nowadays in terms of useful workshop equipment!). I'd be tempted to do such a thing just to give that Berry guy the kick up the ass he deserves, if he treats customers like this!

But you need a lot of skills: casting, milling, making photo etch, work with carbon fibre etc. I think that is the reason why it went wrong with Promocom: to many participants and to little coordination. But the engine would be a nice project.

Good luck with the build, but bare in mind if you make too good a job, you'll be promoting that idiots products!

LOL just buy from Autograph or Brady Ward and you don´t have any problems

regards

Ton

[tony126c2]

Some progress again Last time I stopped at the point were I had to make the brass connection point between the engine and gear housing. I used a plastic mould which I showed earlier to fabricate the brass connection.



At the left you see the plastic mould and the big picture shows the brass connection. The next picture shows the ready connection were I used copper plating to close the voids.



And here the gearbox housing is ready: plastic, white metal and copper/brass are painted and dry brushed to get all over metallic look.



On the next pictures you see the supports assembled for the complete suspension/wheel setting. I received a spare part of the suspension from another owner of the Promocom 126C2 so I only have to reproduce its counterpart.

This is my goal for the next update and probably I will make the wing strut too!