Crank Sensor replacement night mare

[Mechbernie]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If you add up the labor you have involved in this project, you could have bought several balancers by now!!

You know what they say about hindsight being 20/20. I'm learning some things along the way. And I still need to pull a plug wire off to check for that spark. I may pull it off one more time and check it with a dial caliper or just go get a new assembly from the salvage yard for $25. I'm an expert at pulling these now!

[Mechbernie]

Checked for a spark. Yes there is a spark but not blue. It's yellow. This is confusing!

Update 11/11/09 Happy Veterans Day first of all. Took of the harmonic balancer one last time hopefully. Found the distances between refractor rings and between inner ring and shaft to be several thousanths different from on side to the other. Going to try (like someone suggested) gettiing them all close to the distances measured on the side that was not initially damaged. If it even acts different when I go to start it (even if it still does not start but acts differently than it did) I'll likely go to the salvage yard and get a replacement. We'll see. I'll let you all know what happens in case your interested.
Still open to ideas! Thanks all!

Got'em as close as I could using a dial caliper to measure. No change. won't start. Last time I checked it had a weak spark while being jumped. Thinking about towing it to the professional shop......., or just shooting it!

Ok, I went out and bought another harmonic balancer from the salvege yard and.....the car still does not start. The engine turns but it won't start. Taking a look at the ignition towers....

[Mechbernie]

Alright I don't know if anyone is paying anymore attention to this thread anyway the replacement harmonic balancer made no difference except my wallet. I made sure the fuel pump and injector fuses were in good shape (the were good). Cleaned up the ground by the battery I removed the ignition amplifier had it bench checked and it's also good. Perhaps the timing chain jumped a tooth when the balancer refractor fins hit the sensor??? Heck maybie its been the timing chain all along the car's got 114,233 miles on it, I'm running out of ideas here. Suggestions welcome Thanks!

[Smith1000]

Sounds frustrating. When attempting to start it, does it stumble, or event try to fire?

After clearing the original code, is it setting a code still?

What was the original code that it set that prompted replacement of the crank sensor?

When attempting to start it, do you smell gas? If there is gas and spark in the cylinders, it should be trying to fire occasionally.

[HotZ28]

Where are you seeing yellow spark, at the coil towers or the plugs? What is your battery voltage when attempting to start?

[Mechbernie]

First, Hey I really appreciate you guys response. I've been keeping the battery on trickle charge and switching it to "start/charge" when I attempt to start it or even jumping it with another vehicle. The voltage is up arounnd 12 or 13V. I get the yellow spark at the plug end of the plug wire. When I attempt to start it does slightly back fire at times. Initially it set the code for the crank shaft sensor. Not sure right now I think it was like P0306 anyway I'm it was the crank sensor code and its gone away and when testing during start attempt usually reads "PASS" (no codes) sometimes it will give me a pending "manufacturer emissions something or another" I'm thinking this is related to the backfire. I do smell gas and have cracked the manifold and verified gas is present also here the new fuel pump kick on after the system has depressurized. I dont recall right now how to easily check TDC of the #1 piston in relation to the timing gear with out pulling off the timing chain cover. Is there a way?Again I really appreaciate your thoughts on this.

[HotZ28]

With only 114K miles, the timing chain should be fine, I think something else is causing your problem. Please answer the following questions the best you can.

1) What is the reason you decided to replace the crank sensor? Was it only because you had a DTC for that, and was the engine starting & running before the crank sensor install fiasco?
2) Have you removed the plugs and are they wet, or clean?
3) What is the fuel pressure?
4) Have you tested the spark with a plug removed & ignition wire attached (grounded to the block) with the plug gap extended to .200 to see if fire the gap?
5) Have you checked for 12V to the ICM pink wire (ignition feed) with ignition switch turned ON?
6) Have you used a noid light to test injector firing? (Smell of gas is not a good test)
7) Have you tried spraying some carb cleaner in the throttle body before starting?

BTW, any DTC set without the engine running, is totally meaningless!

[Mechbernie]

Okay, I'll try to get the information requested asap although I don't own all thr test equipment I'll do the best I can. The car has had a history of not starting at times after it got warmed up wait 10-15 minutes it started right up. Then the fuel pump and sending unit failed the car would not start at all so I replaced that unit. The car started immediately. Finally the car would not start again at all thats when I put the analyzer on it and it indicated the CS sensor. I have yet toremove the plugs but they are good plugs, I think I replaced them at about 100K. I dont have a gauge to check the fuel pressure guess I can buy one at a parts store. Is there a place to tap into the manifold? No I haven't done the check with the spark plug or the ICM pink wire voltage check yet. I do not own a noid light. Again I guess I can buy one. Havent tried any carb cleaner either. I'll get the rest of the information as soon as I can get back to it. Thanks.

Bern

[Jrs3800]

What kind of plugs did you use?

[Mechbernie]

Jrs3800

I'm not positive of the brand (AC Delco?) I'll pull some plugs and check it out. Like I said I don't think the plugs are very old and the car ran beautifully before it just seemed not start kind of all of a sudden. I'll check them tonight. Keep the thoughts coming!

Thanks.

Bern

[Smith1000]

Have the plug wires been off since you been working on it? Is there a possibility the wires are not on right, such as reversed?

[Mechbernie]

Quick update: I pulled plugs one at a time last night. They are AC Delco 100K mile plugs. They were black and at least half had a somewhat significant amount of coking. I cleaned them up, checked the gaps and reinstalled them. because they appear to still be in good shape. At least one of the plug wires (in the back) I noticed is dried out (heat related) cripy inside and not pliable. Definitely a problem. It was getting late so I didn't have time to thouroughly go through the rest. Near by parts stores were as closed by this time. I reinstalled all the wires and attempted a start it seemed to almost start up over but then didn't so I'll be picking up at least a set of wires today...and plugs too.

NOTE:I could not find written down anywhere the date I last changed the plugs so I may be thinking of my previous 95 Lesabre. These plugs I think I remember because they're the kind with a pointy electrode. I know, I know, plugs are relatively cheap. I should go ahead and just replace them to eliminate any doubt.

If this solves the problem I'll feel like an idiot but I'll sure be relieved.

I'll let you know.

Thanks again all!

[Mechbernie]

Unfortunately the new plug wires did not resolve the problem. I checked the pink wire and did get approx 12V on the pink wire at the ICM with the key on. I'll move forward with HotZ28's action plan as soon as I purchase noid light and pressure tester/guage.

Thanks again all

[Mechbernie]

Quick update: Fuel pressure at the manifold reads between 45 & 50 psi. Tested two injectors with a noid light so far (I got interupted) and they are both good. Blinked as advertised. My car's out in the drive way so I need to work around the weather. I'm really thinking the timing chain jumped but I'll check the other four injectors before I drain fluids and pull the cover. Still open to more suggestions. Have a happy Thanksgiving folks and thank you all!

[Mechbernie]

The injectors checked out GOOD using the noid light.

Need to still accomplish items 4 and 7 of HotZ28's 11/14 post.

More sugestions before I find #1 piston TDC, pull the tc cover and see if the dots line up?

Thanks again all!!!